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I'm back with an Elder Scrolls vs Sword Art Online match!
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Mehrunes' Razor is far more than a dagger. It's literally the source of Dagon's power and a major aspect of his being, and it can rewrite reality by cutting it into new shapes.
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Hey Matthew would you say it's worse to wank or low ball? Because I really don't want to become one of those people that say stuff like "tier zero hax" but everytime I learn something new about the Elder Scrolls I'm left wondering how does Nirn not instantly explode any minute of any day. I mean I love magically abilities and insane stuff it's one of my favorite things ever but like how is there ever conflict in the Elder Scrolls if people can pull crap like that out of their rear ends at anytime!? Also doesn't that change the Dragonborn's range or no? Well this enough for me for one night. I'll repeat what I said earlier. I hate SAO with a passion so count me for the Dragonborn now, and I love the Elder Scrolls but my god is it weird, like I've seen some weird shit and I love it, but Jesus I need to read more in game text after this thread.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The important point is "If gods manifest their strength". Umbra was nothing but a crappy soul stealer sword, then it suddenly became a super weapon of death manifest a certain power of a 1-C being that almost destroyed Vile realm. Again, you should conceptualize the metaphysical aspect of artifacts tied to godlike beings not based on their tier. Again, I want to add that you have litte understanding metaphysical properties of artifacts by calling the Razor a death dagger. Mankar Camoran used the dagger to forever alter history in a way of changing himself into a Dragonborn defying the laws manifested passively by a 1-C Time god. One can argue the Razor can manipulate Laws through what I was describing. My point still remains with artifacts capable of channeling powers of gods untested.
Since you brought Auriel's Bow, it's possible for Dovahkiin to acquire it through completing Dawnguard DLC. If the hero used artifact, Quinella can be as good as dead. The case is closed
Since you brought Auriel's Bow, it's possible for Dovahkiin to acquire it through completing Dawnguard DLC. If the hero used artifact, Quinella can be as good as dead. The case is closed
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But the artifacts wielded by mortals are admittedly =/= not the same as those wielded by the gods, that much has to be admitted. Molag Bal's Mace in his own hands is far deadlier than in the Dovahkiin's.
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Now I feel bad, like I love the Elder Scrolls but I feel like I've been massively downplaying, and it feels weird to have to go against a verse I've loved for years only to find out it actually isn't as weak as I thought. Like that should be a good thing since it actually is way more interesting and impressive than I thought, but I just feel like an ass. So sorry everyone, if I was doing a Shazam (or however you spell his name) I'll try to read more stuff tomorrow.
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I was assuming if Dovahkiin was so endowed by gods, then it might be possible for the hero wielding the big ass mace. The Rueful Axe was an example
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@Keeweed
You weren't a Shazam, lol, don't worry.
It's just that the lore is sometimes inherently confusing.
That thing about Mehrunes' Razor being the source of his power, a major aspect of his being, and something used to remake history?
It all comes from careful analysis of this text:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries
Which, go ahead, try to read now. It's really hard to even wrap your brain around it on a first glance.
You weren't a Shazam, lol, don't worry.
It's just that the lore is sometimes inherently confusing.
That thing about Mehrunes' Razor being the source of his power, a major aspect of his being, and something used to remake history?
It all comes from careful analysis of this text:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries
Which, go ahead, try to read now. It's really hard to even wrap your brain around it on a first glance.
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...The beginning letters of that read "GREEN EMPEROR", I noticed. That said, I think the key remark is "razor-fed" in that whole material. The Xarxes' power is fueled by the Razor, and the Xarxes alone can create new dimensions and realities with its power, as proved by the creation of Paradise.
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''"He that enters Paradise enters his own Mother."''
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Most Daedric artifacts aren't as powerful as weapons you forge yourself late game in Skyrim, and Wabbajack is slightly useless Hax which Quinella would laugh at.
Quinella stomps unless it's some weird high level build (Which it's not, so she does) , Uh, I mean, Stealth Archer.
Quinella stomps unless it's some weird high level build (Which it's not, so she does) , Uh, I mean, Stealth Archer.
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Blatant game mechanics and not true in lore, or on this wiki.Orion'sBow said:
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It's a game. What happens in game should be taken as primary canon.
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I vote for Quinella FRA. Nothing Dragonborn has, or ever gets, will let him out pace her. This ain't bias either because I love both series, but sweet Gods, Elder Scrolls is wanked to High Heaven on this site.
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Beacuse this is the dragonborn in the beginning of the game,of course he/she has nothing to out pace her.But if were are tallking about the Low 2-C Dragonborn then she is the one who will have nothing to out pace him/her.But I will have to agree with you since this is a early game Dragonborn so Quinella wins this.Orion'sBow said:
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I'm just going to say if anyone is voting for the reason I said, I found out I was wrong so you're going to need new reasons. Daedric Artifacts absolutely destroy her but she still has the advantage of killing him by literally sighing. I also think the Dragonborn's range is being upgraded so she no longer has that advantage.
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Actual canon lore is what's being taken as primary canon.Orion'sBow said:
It's already been stated earlier, but to reiterate: Daedric Artifacts are literal aspects of the Daedric Princes themselves, who are low 1-C beings, and thus far above anything anyone in Skyrim can forge themselves. Trying to justify custom made armor and weapons being canonically superior to the Daedric Artifacts requires you to justify the entire stat system itself. "Sword x does y damage, and enchanted cuirass x gives y health points", etc, which isn't how things work in lore. It makes sense from a game standpoint to allow the player to craft and enchant their own god-tier weapons, because it opens up to ability for that playstyle without making it redundant due to OP artifacts, but is a wooden sword, if improved on a grindstone, canonically superior to a daedric artifact like the Ebony Blade? Of course not. And even then, the stats differ from game to game, and the same artifacts in Morrowind for instance would for be much more powerful. Skyrim is not the only Elder Scrolls game and its game mechanics does not decide what is and isn't canon.
Not to mention that End-Game Dovahkiin usually can't even one shot bandits, so using the game mechanics as primary canon is hilariously low-ball.
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People who only played Skyrim and don't know about Elder Scrolls Lore or Canon smh
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Imagine not having played Morrowind.
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I have played Morrowind. Can confirm that most Daedric artifacts are of questionable use after a certain point. Can also confirm that most Daedric lords should be nowhere near 1-C. Merhunes can't even do jack to a country when he's angery in Oblivion
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Can also confirm that someone was smoking when they made Dovahkiin 2-C. He never does Universal damage wtf.
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Elder Scrolls needs a huge downgrade CTR. This is nonsense. Someone unironically thought it was a good idea to have Dovahkiin face Reinhard Heydrich in another thread.
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Alduin > Mundus, which is a 4th Dimensional Infinite Plane of Existence, IIRC, and the Dovahkiin is >= Alduin.
Someone hasn't been reading Matthew's blogs, it seems~
Someone hasn't been reading Matthew's blogs, it seems~
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>Country level Mehrunes Dagon
You do know that in ESO, a small fraction of Meridia's power was said to be capable of completely destroying Nirn, right?
Then in the same game, the Avatars of the Celestial Constellations are capable of destroying linear time and the laws of reality across the whole Plane, and return it to the Dawn Era. While their true forms would destroy the Mundus just by manifesting in it.
Said Celestials are no big deal compared to Boethiah, who states that she could invite them to a tournament in her Realm, and easily destroy them should she choose to participate.
Then there is the fact that in Oblivion itself, Mehrunes Dagon was going to destroy the White-Gold Tower, which exists adjacent to all of Time and Space across the entire Multiverse of Mundus.
You do know that in ESO, a small fraction of Meridia's power was said to be capable of completely destroying Nirn, right?
Then in the same game, the Avatars of the Celestial Constellations are capable of destroying linear time and the laws of reality across the whole Plane, and return it to the Dawn Era. While their true forms would destroy the Mundus just by manifesting in it.
Said Celestials are no big deal compared to Boethiah, who states that she could invite them to a tournament in her Realm, and easily destroy them should she choose to participate.
Then there is the fact that in Oblivion itself, Mehrunes Dagon was going to destroy the White-Gold Tower, which exists adjacent to all of Time and Space across the entire Multiverse of Mundus.
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No you're wrong the Dragonborn can't even destroy a tree in game.Ultima Reality said:
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You forgot the "ovo" at the end.Ogbunabali said:
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TES has wack powerscaling. Dovahkiin is effectively an empowered mortal. Killing someone whose death causes a spacetime quake doesn't mean you can damage the space time continuum yourself.
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Dovahkiin is a very three dimensional being and he's always portrayed as such. Killing a higher dimensional being than you doesn't make you higher dimensional than it.
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1. Mortals can be powerful in TES
2. You don't need to be capable of busting a Universe to be Low 2-C, this is AoE Fallacy at its finest. Alduin is capable of devouring Nirn and Linear Time itself, and the Dovahkiin defeated him.
You also don't need to be Higher-Dimensional to be Tier 2 or higher, I can name 1-Cs who are 3-D beings with Higher-Dimensional Power only.
2. You don't need to be capable of busting a Universe to be Low 2-C, this is AoE Fallacy at its finest. Alduin is capable of devouring Nirn and Linear Time itself, and the Dovahkiin defeated him.
You also don't need to be Higher-Dimensional to be Tier 2 or higher, I can name 1-Cs who are 3-D beings with Higher-Dimensional Power only.
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wait wait a minute .... Orion,are you a comic vine member come to show the usual stuff of "vs battle wiki are unreasonable"?.
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Nope. I'm just here to say that TES is highballed to unreasonable amounts here, that Quinella would win this fight, and that Kirito would kill max level Dovakiin.
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do I have to give you the exact words that say that the main source of Elder Scrolls lore is books and the gamplays are unreliable?
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Yes. And I'll still probably not believe you, because they're GAMES.
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Guys, stop it. It's derailing. And.Orion, if you don't agree with the revision, go make a CRT.
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I laughed. Nice joke. Thanks for brightening my day. I needed that.Orion'sBow said:
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The Developers themselves say that the Games are just abstracted representations of the real thing, this is reflected in the Novels, where characters take Weeks or Months to go from one place to the other, instead of a few minutes like in the games.
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Extract from the interview of Greg Keyes,author of the Elder Scrolls books Infernal City and Lord of Souls.
GK: Things were pretty wide open, in terms of the story I could tell. I was given a preliminary outline of history after Oblivion, but I was also told that some of it was negotiable. I wrote a number of different short proposals, which were reviewed by my editor and the guys at Bethesda. Once the basic idea was settled on, I wrote a longer, more detailed outline, which then went through a few changes. All through this process I had access to Bruce Nesmith and Kurt Kuhlman at Bethesda, so I could bounce ideas off of them, ask whether I could or couldn't do something. Of course, it had to be a TES story, so I was constrained by lore -- although not, interestingly, by game mechanics. I was told specifically that no one wanted to "hear the dice rolling" so to speak. We are to imagine the world of TES to be a real place, of which the games are merely representations. My book represents that world in another way. Geographical distances, for instance, are contracted in the game -- in my books they aren't, so it takes days or weeks rather than hours to run from one city to another.
GK: Things were pretty wide open, in terms of the story I could tell. I was given a preliminary outline of history after Oblivion, but I was also told that some of it was negotiable. I wrote a number of different short proposals, which were reviewed by my editor and the guys at Bethesda. Once the basic idea was settled on, I wrote a longer, more detailed outline, which then went through a few changes. All through this process I had access to Bruce Nesmith and Kurt Kuhlman at Bethesda, so I could bounce ideas off of them, ask whether I could or couldn't do something. Of course, it had to be a TES story, so I was constrained by lore -- although not, interestingly, by game mechanics. I was told specifically that no one wanted to "hear the dice rolling" so to speak. We are to imagine the world of TES to be a real place, of which the games are merely representations. My book represents that world in another way. Geographical distances, for instance, are contracted in the game -- in my books they aren't, so it takes days or weeks rather than hours to run from one city to another.
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