The Sword Art Online CRT: Massive Changes To The Entire Verse

[Wdinatx]

Also it's come to my attention the profiles should have Accelerated Development, so I added them to the sandbox profiles.

You're welcome.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

So Star King and Star Queen keeping their 4-A key?

 

[PsychicCipher-2]

Just keep Alice at where she should be. There is no way she should have a boost when she had left UW for so long.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, that's actually a fair point. I also disagree with scaling Alice.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just keep Alice at where she should be. There is no way she should have a boost when she had left UW for so long.

You can say the same for Asuna from what the anime shows. Yet both her and Kirito were both able to defeat Abbysal Horror immediately after relogging back in to UW.

Im not seeing what would make Alice any different just because she was gone from UW for a while.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Yeah, that's actually a fair point. I also disagree with scaling Alice.

so we should just put a "likely much higher" with Release Recollection or Incarnation.

If we don't scale Alice to Star King and Star Queen, do we scale Alice to 8-A, likely higher, much higher with with Release Recollection and Incarnation? Or no change at all?

 

[Ionliosite]

You can say the same for Asuna from what the anime shows.

Asuna literally had centuries in Underworld, her situation is nothing like Alice's.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Asuna literally had centuries in Underworld, her situation is nothing like Alice's.

Doing what though? Unless im missing something, the only basis for her being 4-A is being comparable to Star King Kirito and helping to defeat AH, the latter in which Alice also did.

In addition, Alice would only be rated that high with Release Recollection anyway, which doesnt have any anti-feats by the end of Alicization as far as im aware.

 

[Ionliosite]

In addition, Alice would only be rated that high with Release Recollection anyway, which doesnt have any anti-feats by the end of Alicization as far as im aware.

So your argument is that Alice's RR was Tier 4 during the enterity of the end of Alicization?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So your argument is that Alice's RR was Tier 4 during the enterity of the end of Alicization?

Im not neccessarily saying it was, but my point here was moreso that there's no anti feats from Alice's RR to prevent it from getting upgraded unless theres something im forgetting.

Prior to AH, a feat Alice did with it was vaporizing large portions of the dark territorys army, something she did easily.

 

[Xmark12]

Asuna's body by that point along with Kirito's lived for centuries as Star Queen and Star King respectively. Their Authorities and abilities grew substantially in that time. Meanwhile, Alice was logged out immediately after War of Underworld; her body not growing at all for 200 years, meanin she should be at the same level of power that she was in that arc.

Her vaporizing armies is nowhere near 4-A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Her vaporizing armies is nowhere near 4-A.

You seem to keep missing my point about her doing it easily.

She had 0 difficulty doing the feat, which indicates thats not where her power caps at. Which would imply that nothing would stop RR from being higher than that.

 

[Wdinatx]

What about collective Incarnation? Wouldn't people telling legends about Alice make her stronger over time?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'll condede to the Asuna point tho.

 

[Wdinatx]

Yeah, she's definitely still not improved as much as Asuna and Kirito.

 

[Ionliosite]

You seem to keep missing my point about her doing it easily.

She had 0 difficulty doing the feat, which indicates thats not where her power caps at. Which would imply that nothing would stop RR from being higher than that.

It being easily done doesn't make it Tier 4. Calc the feat if you think it would be higher than 8-A, because it being casual doesn't make it millions of times stronger than before.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It being easily done doesn't make it Tier 4.

It also doesn’t not make her tier 4 either. Or rather it doesn’t mean she cant be.

When it comes to casual/easily done feats, we usually don’t take them as the tier limit for a character in future upgrades.

Had she struggled even a bit with it, then yeah absolutely no to tier 4. But that isn’t the case, so it leaves room for tier 4 being a debatable upgrade.

Also what @Wdinatx said about collective incarnation

 

[Ionliosite]

It also doesn’t not make her tier 4 either. Or rather it doesn’t mean she cant be.

Burden of proof, you have to proof the positive. It can be, but you need to prove it is.

When it comes to casual/easily done feats, we usually don’t take them as the tier limit for a character in future upgrades.

But we don't take them as being millions of times above everything they've shown either

Had she struggled even a bit with it, then yeah absolutely no to tier 4. But that isn’t the case, so it leaves room for tier 4 being a debatable upgrade.

It leaves room, yes, but you need to bring the evidence for that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, and for the evidence of it being tier 4, that returns us back to alice using RR to finish off Abyssal Horror in the end.

If there are no anti feats with RR, then her defeating it should be a viable upgrade, even if left with only a “likely” or “possibly”

 

[Xmark12]

Just slap on a "likely higher" to Release Recollection and we can be done with that.

 

[Ionliosite]

Again, for her RR to be Tier 4, you need to assume a lot of things, such as it being Tier 4 the entire time since she didn't get any stronger, or the AH not being the literally scattered to pieces by that point. There's no evidence for it being Tier 4 doesn't requiere big jumps in logic.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well as I said before, I don’t agree with just a “higher” rating.

Even if only possibly/likely (which I’d be fine with), the feat isn’t undoubtedly tier 4.

What it comes down to is if it’s viable enough to apply or not

 

[Ionliosite]

Possibly/likely would indicate there's evidence towards it being Tier 4. There isn't. So no, just "higher".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Again, for her RR to be Tier 4, you need to assume a lot of things, such as it being Tier 4 the entire time since she didn't get any stronger,

This was already answered. Even if she didn’t get any stronger (no one addressed the collective incarnation point), the tier she was in isn’t her limit as her previous feat was done with ease.

or the AH not being the literally scattered to pieces by that point.

This was already answered. It being brought to pieces doesn’t make its durability drop below tier 4.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Possibly/likely would indicate there's evidence towards it being Tier 4. There isn't.

Finishing off the Abbysal Horror, a tier 4 being, is evidence

So this is moot

 

[Ionliosite]

This was already answered. Even if she didn’t get any stronger (no one addressed the collective incarnation point), the tier she was in isn’t her limit as her previous feat was done with ease.

Yes, but that would need to prove it was Tier 4 all along.

This was already answered. It being brought to pieces doesn’t make its durability drop below tier 4.

It being basically dead definitely means it isn't as strong as before.

Finishing off the Abbysal Horror, a tier 4 being, is evidence

Except it blatantly isn't if you know the context.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, but that would need to prove it was Tier 4 all along.

Defeating the Abyssal Horror would prove it tho.

And I’m not seeing why we would need to anyway. We take character upgrades like this all the time where there’s no anti feat prior and they do a much better feat later that’s acceptable. What makes Alice different?

It being basically dead definitely means it isn't as strong as before.

Of course. But that doesn’t mean it’s not tier 4 anymore.

You can become billions to trillions times weaker and still be 4-A, that’s how huge of a tier we are talking here.

AH most definitely wouldn’t be as strong as he is normally, but he should still be tier 4

Except it blatantly isn't if you know the context.

He was destroyed into pieces as a result of Kirito and Asuna tag teaming against him.

The pieces of him, while obviously insanely weaker, would still logically be tier 4

 

[Ionliosite]

And I’m not seeing why we would need to anyway. We take character upgrades like this all the time where there’s no anti feat prior and they do a much better feat later that’s acceptable. What makes Alice different?

The fact she doesn't have any reason to be Tier 4. Just assuming that because she's stronger Tier 8s she must be Tier 4 is completely ridiculous when there's nothing saying she suddenly got so strong.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But, she does, by defeating the remaining parts of AH.

So that leaves us with determining a near dead AH is either tier 4 or not.

 

[Ionliosite]

But, she does, by defeating the remaining parts of AH.

So that leaves us with determining a near dead AH is either tier 4 or not.

No, she doesn't. There's no evidence pointing to her being Tier 4, and your only argument is "well, she dealt one blow on a half dead character", which is a ridiculous basis to use as scaling since there's nothing saying that's Tier 4 either.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I will repeat what I said earlier on the near-dead point:

I dont agree with just a "likely much higher" given the massive difference in tier at play. Just because its durability massively lowered doesnt mean it dropped below tier 4.

And this isn’t the first time in fiction where a characters been spliced into pieces and still has insane durability to tell about it. Frieza being a perfect example.

So what would suggest the AH being near dead is no longer tier 4?

 

[Ionliosite]

I will repeat what I said earlier on the near-dead point:

Dude, that's a complete non-argument. The thing is basically dead, it obviously doesn't scale to itself.

And this isn’t the first time in fiction where a characters been spliced into pieces and still has insane durability to tell about it. Frieza being a perfect example.

But you would need to prove that's the case here.

So what would suggest the AH being near dead is no longer tier 4?

Aside from the obvious fact it is NEAR DEAD and thus doesn't scale to itself, the fact it gets defeated by a character with no Tier 4 feats or scaling shows it is very weakened.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

.Aside from the obvious fact it is NEAR DEAD and thus doesn't scale to itself, the fact it gets defeated by a character with no Tier 4 feats or scaling shows it is very weakened.

This isn’t an argument as I can just turn this back around and say that, again, it can also mean alice is tier 4 for finishing it off in the first place.

In fact, Asuna not completely obliterating AH with her Geographical Attack would suggest more that it’s durability afterwards is still in the realm of tier 4 rather than it isn’t. Otherwise Alice wouldn’t have needed to finish it off.

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, your way of saying it is: "This character, whose every other showing is Tier 8, without having any boost from before, defeated a Tier 4, and thus is Tier 4"

While what I'm saying is: "This character, whose every other showing is Tier 8, without having any boost from before, defeated a near dead character, who should normally be Tier 4, but being weakened has lead it to be, well, weaker than normal".

You're literally going by the bigger assumption. And Asuna's Geographical Attack isn't really AP, we already had that discussion before in other threads.

 

[Xmark12]

That's only because the Abyssal Horror is able to regenerate. It was practically in pieces by then - nearly dust. Alice was needed to just take care of the scraps afterwards.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You're literally going by the bigger assumption. And Asuna's Geographical Attack isn't really AP, we already had that discussion before in other threads.

The latter I wasn’t made aware of. But if it doesn’t count as AP, then why does it count as a tier 4 feat for her in the first place? The anime shows her fighting AH with her Geographical Attack.

That's only because the Abyssal Horror is able to regenerate. It was practically in pieces by then - nearly dust. Alice was needed to just take care of the scraps afterwards.

So what your saying here is that Asuna did indeed kill it, but wasn’t able to completely obliterate AH with her attack?

 

[Xmark12]

Yeah, it's stated that the Abyssal Horror was defeated by Star King and Star Queen in the past, but escaped to the edge of the universe to recover.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

OK. AP outside. What about Alice's speed? Scalable to Star King and Star Queen? Or nah?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And the fight we see with Alice, Asuna and Kirito is supposed to be its second battle with them post-recovery, yes?

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Bump