Iihiko's "break" and "higher dimensional" meaning

[GLHF22]

From what Causality explained, and given the 3 main points indeed happen on a single page, this proposal makes sense.

So in slime Unique skill is able to seal people in a complex number of spatial Dimension and Ultimate skill is stated to be "whole another Dimension" so does that means Ultimate skill is a higher Dimension? No. Because that word is used too often in fiction especially when explaining the enemy's strength or some OP character.

You guys take everything too literally, the evidence and explanation is too Stretch and forced, we don't even know what "transcends dimension" means in Medaka box, heck even ALF said Ajimu's skill "Transcends Dimension" is mistranslation and the accurate one is "Cross/exceed dimensions", so unless these ability got in depth explanation nothing gonna change like how Ajimu have a less PA than Rimuru despite having billions of skills.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I agree with the OP

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with DontTalk

 

[Antvasima]

Did somebody ask DTDT to comment here again via his message wall yet?

 

[Ionliosite]

Re-read the whole explanation given by Causality if you think that's all the argument.

 

[GLHF22]

Re-read the whole explanation given by Causality if you think that's all the argument.

If you think you can upgrade this ability to a H D by statement about Ajimu seeing everything as manga, then you should upgrade Ajimu first before making this Thread, also Ajimu didnt only think everything as manga but she herself see Medaka as the protag thus she cannot defeat her which mean she is also part of the manga itself, this can also mean that how she view world around her, is more of her POV to the world rather than her being a higher D beings.

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, wouldn't this scale Ajimu too? She'll still be Unknown of course, just Unknown on 4-D scale.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Aren't all the Unknown characters/powers on a 4-D scale tho?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Aren't all the Unknown characters/powers on a 4-D scale tho?

Well abilities like All Fiction are indeed 4D but they're a limited form of 4D. So they're 4D in name rather than in potency (don't gain any 4D bonuses).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Did somebody ask DTDT to comment here afain via his message wall yet?

I messaged him.

 

[Antvasima]

@Firephoenixearl

Thanks.

 

[The_Causality]

You guys take everything too literally, the evidence and explanation is too Stretch and forced, we don't even know what "transcends dimension" means in Medaka box, heck even ALF said Ajimu's skill "Transcends Dimension" is mistranslation and the accurate one is "Cross/exceed dimensions", so unless these ability got in depth explanation nothing gonna change like how Ajimu have a less PA than Rimuru despite having billions of skills.

There is already a thread about Ajimu's skill but to summary The Raw Translation from the Databook:

[µ¼íÕàâÕûëµ×£ (ÒâÅÒé╣Òé¡Òâ╝Òâ£ÒéñÒé╣ÒâçÒéúÒâíÒâ│ÒéÀÒâºÒâ│)]: Husky Voice Dimension

[µ¼íÕàâÒéÆÞÂàÒüêÒéïÒé╣Òé¡Òâ½]: A skill to beyond Dimensions / A skill exceeding Dimensions

I've asked Shiro to being sure, and his translation is:

"Husky Voice Dimension" - a skill that allows to transcends Dimensions.

Once again i didn't say that we need to Upgrade Iihiko, i've already said that we could wait more infos from the other sources/make a blog ect.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Eh i was asked to comment here.
The Original translation said:

µ¼íÕàâÒüîÚüòÒüåÒéôÒüáÒéêÞ¿ÇÕ¢ªÒü«Õ╝ÀÒüòÒü» | Iihiko's strength is in another dimension

This only could be taken either literally or as an Hyperbol, this is why Context is the key with statement, here we have an exemple of how Iihiko exert his other dimension strenght.

So it does in fact literally not state it's strength of a higher dimension, but just something that sounds similar to higher dimension, but in fact is something else.

That's more evidence against the idea of higher dimensional Iihiko, than in favor of it.

Point 1: The sca talk about how Iihiko's strenght work, the said scan is interesting since Tsurubami also talked about Ajimu's reality simultion which was about the fact that she thought that everything is in a Manga, by using what it said and what we know about Anshin's complexe, we can also suggest that this isn't solely about he Powernull anything with a power, but something more complexe that involve higher d stuff, there is also the Paper comparison.

A casual reader, that isn't approaching the work with our tiering system in mind, would not read the paper comparison as something about higher dimensions. Usually people would understand it as in the vein of "rip apart as easy as a sheet of paper", just meaning very powerful.

Ajimu's fiction complex doesn't really fit either. In our composite hierarchies we equalize reality-fiction differences to higher D space, but it isn't like that is an actual equality. The connection between higher dimensional strength and reality-fiction stuff doesn't exist outside our wiki, so there isn't much reason to assume that is intended.


More likely it is meant that Iihiko's overwhelming strength and invincibility has served as confirmation of Ajimu's idea of unbeatable main characters. In her head he was the first main character she encountered and his strength lived up to the tropes she assumed them to have.

Point 2: The ability don't reache him, this is also an interesting part of how Higher D work, nothing can arm it, even physical stuff, with the point 1, it make more sense for him not being affected by stuff, but that not only powernulled, it's said that it won't even reache him and don't even noticed them, just like how H D aren't reached by stuff, like when you for exemple can't be affected by abilities from a Manga you read, but the words and feeling can reaches you (i find the comparison really funny and interesting but maybe my headcanon) But this ability is reliant of his strenght, if he recognize your strenght, you can affect him.

Attacks don't literally not reach him. Even when unharmed by the attacks we have seen him get knocked around by relatively mundane stuff, like getting hit by a car. The "attacks don't reach him" part IMO means more that he negates the damage before it ever effects him, then anything more literal.

And the argument made here is that not Iihiko himself is higher dimensional, but his ability is, so higher dimensionality as reason that things don't hit him would, IMO, not fit with the idea of higher dimensional abilities being reason for it.


Bringing up Ajimu's "Transcend Dimenions" skill just makes it even stranger. If Iihiko's strength would be based on high D stuff and the skill effect were literal Ajimu should be able to beat him easily... But of course we have already debated enough on the fact that we shouldn't give too much value to Ajimu's 3 word description skills, so this point doesn't really matter.

In total Tier 1 stuff should have high standards of evidence and this doesn't meet them, IMO.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I'll have to disagree DT. The "sees them as ink on paper" is obvious higher D difference (usually). Our tiering system isn't the only thing dictating that. And again, ripping the paper really wouldn't need an entire explanation on "different kinds of strength" and a picture of Medaka on the paper then the paper breaking. It would have just been like "We're like pieces of paper to him". I've legit not seen a single person outside of the wiki who interpreted that as "they're like paper to him".

And besides the physical difference is not even that high. Kurokami Final 1 shotted him not long after the explanation.

 

[The_Causality]

>So it does in fact literally not state it's strength of a higher dimension, but just something that sounds similar to higher dimension, but in fact is something else.

That's more evidence against the idea of higher dimensional Iihiko, than in favor of it.

I don't see this as against Iihko's strength from an higher Dimension, it state that his strength is in another dimension, indeed, without context, it just mean that he is way stronger than them but with the context with the paper comparison and the expalantion, it make sense for him having a strength from an Higher Dimension - Literally

>A casual reader, that isn't approaching the work with our tiering system in mind, would not read the paper comparison as something about higher dimensions. Usually people would understand it as in the vein of "rip apart as easy as a sheet of paper", just meaning very powerful.

Not sure about that too, there is many way to interpret this scene, once again without context, it would not mean something but with all the point, a casual reader could understand that this could be an higher d stuff

>Ajimu's fiction complex doesn't really fit either. In our composite hierarchies we equalize reality-fiction differences to higher D space, but it isn't like that is an actual equality. The connection between higher dimensional strength and reality-fiction stuff doesn't exist outside our wiki, so there isn't much reason to assume that is intended.

You should not take everything from fiction and equalize it with our standart, even when many fiction use reality-fiction as not something as Higher D, i don't think that you can said that reality fiction doesn't exeist outside our wiki, but here the context is that Ajimu developped this mentality by confronting Iihiko and the result of it was that she think that everything is a Manga, compared to his strenght, and contextually, it fit with the idea of higher D strenght.

>And the argument made here is that not Iihiko himself is higher dimensional, but his ability is, so higher dimensionality as reason that things don't hit him would, IMO, not fit with the idea of higher dimensional abilities being reason for it.

I don't think so, he is himself not H D, but is strenght is, and is strenght literally prevent people for harming him if he doesn't himself recognize your strenght, it's a weird way but fiction work with teir own rule and if the justification is that, then i am fine with it.

>Attacks don't literally not reach him. Even when unharmed by the attacks we have seen him get knocked around by relatively mundane stuff, like getting hit by a car. The "attacks don't reach him" part IMO means more that he negates the damage before it ever effects him, then anything more literal.

Not pysical attacks, Skills, his strenght protect him from skills, not Physical attacks, and this could be justified easily with a kind of mechanics since he is perfectly tangible to peoples around him, and also there is many problem this scan brought so using it could not be productive, and i don't think he negate the damage before it ever effect him.

>Bringing up Ajimu's "Transcend Dimenions" skill just makes it even stranger. If Iihiko's strength would be based on high D stuff and the skill effect were literal Ajimu should be able to beat him easily... But of course we have already debated enough on the fact that we shouldn't give too much value to Ajimu's 3 word description skills, so this point doesn't really matter.

Fine since it doesn't take part of my argumentation, just to answer someone who used a mistranslation, the ability is already noted as outlier so.

I'am truly sorry, due to some IRL circumustance i probably shouldn't be able to asnwers at your claims, so excuse me if i don't answer you for your next posts, i'll probably just stay at my position of agreeing with it but wait more time for other proofs so not changing anything in the profile yet, imo, this need a proper blog for him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As a side note, related to the topic. I believe this reddit post does an extremely good job at explaining the "standings" and supposed powers of each character. (Read the 1st reply on the topic).

I encourage everyone to read it. @Antvasima too

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I believe that not using throw away statements for higher D upgrades was one of the goals of the revision, tbh.

To be fair, they mention a "simulated reality concept" in relation to Iihiko's strength, so it does give me the impression Medaka Box is working by the logic of higher-dimensional entities seeing lower-dimensional beings as fiction; it isn't exactly an unusual or novel idea to compare the two, and given the explanation outlined here, that does seem to be the OP's Interpretation of the statement. Although I would very much like more context on this, of course.

Anyways, frankly that scan just seems like a fanciful metaphor for the scale of Iihiko's ability to compared to that of everyone else. One of the main pieces of evidence being used to support this being literal seems to be how skills supposedly can't reach him, which I find kind of spotty, considering Medaka seems to immediately correct herself on this matter, and says it's rather as if he didn't notice that she was using Skills in the first place, which seems to line up well with his "Subjective Immunity" thing, at least as it is described on his page: He doesn't recognize attacks thrown against him as anything threatening, so they don't damage him, even if in principle they are powerful enough to pull that off.

That's just Subjective Reality explained in a meta way, from the sounds of it, and it doesn't necessarily have to involve higher-dimensional shenanigans. Besides, if you want to say that only Iihiko's "strength" is higher-dimensional while he himself isn't, what exactly would that mean, in this case? If you want to say Skills don't reach him because of that (Since the text doesn't seem to differentiate between his two abilities and plain strength), then that'd just imply Iihiko himself is higher-dimensional, which you agreed is contradictory. And if you want to say Skills don't reach him because of how his power works, then that'd just give him Subjective Reality that doesn't have to relate to higher dimensions outside of this fairly vague, brief exposition. You can't have your cake and eat it too, from what I see.

As a side note, related to the topic. I believe this reddit post does an extremely good job at explaining the "standings" and supposed powers of each character. (Read the 1st reply on the topic).

That's pretty interesting, but it just seems like metatext relating to the themes of the verse, not necessarily to the actual events and actions happening in-universe within it, which is what the wiki rates in the first place. I am fairly sure you could Inflate a fair share of characters way beyond any reasonable stretch using solely what they are supposed to represent in their stories; SCP-3999 comes to mind.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm, i am unsure on your standing here Ultima. Are you for or against the Higher-dimensionality. The 1st paragraph is you defending the idea that his ability to "break" things seems related to Higher dimensionality. But the 2 other paragraphs are you disagreeing with it. Im confused.

Though in regards to the 2 other paragraphs, he already has the ability. This is just about the potency due to the way it is described and portrayed (different kind of strength, the breaking of the paper etc).

On the last one, that isn't exactly an argument as that would put Iihiko anywhere from 4D to 1-A depending on certain things which are not worth going into, that was just a pretty interesting explanation of how characters are portrayed in the story. That's why i called it a "side-note" (so just read it for fun, rather than as arguments).

 

[Ionliosite]

In total Tier 1 stuff should have high standards of evidence and this doesn't meet them, IMO.

DT, absolutely no one is arguing Tier 1 in this thread, hell, we're even making a point this doesn't upgrade anyone's tier, it just puts Iihiko's "break" as 4-D, and it's not like it is the first 4-D ability in the verse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I think DT there was talking about 1-B Ajimu according to the "transcend dimension" thing, but that's not really the point of the thread.

About the 4-D, it would be the first "true 4D", the others are limited versions of 4D that don't gain 4D bonuses.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

even if his power was 4-D, why would it upgrade him? is there any proof higher dimensions in Medakabox are infinitely above previous dimensions?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's the idea of "breaking people by breaking the paper". The illustration proves it's 4D by our standards.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump.

 

[Ionliosite]

About the 4-D, it would be the first "true 4D", the others are limited versions of 4D that don't gain 4D bonuses.

Earl, I'm just going to point that this makes 0 sense. It either is 4-D or it isn't, there's no middle point.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well it kinda does. All fiction is 4D due to affecting time and erasing things from the timeline. But that doesn't make it infinitely greater than 3D.

So it's a really strong erasure but not 4D by the new system.