Iihiko's "break" and "higher dimensional" meaning

[Firephoenixearl]

So for the longest time now Iihiko has had this note on his profile:

Note 1: To make this profile possible, it had to avoid the claim of Iihiko being considered a higher-dimensional entity (that statement sounds more like an expression), and even then, it is arguable whether or not this is true, but he won against a ridiculously powerful character simply because the author wanted him to.

And well, for a good reason, Iihiko being higher dimensional would contradict some stuff like how when using styles, 3D people can affect him physically. However...is that really the case?

This sca which is where the dimensional statement comes from, never says that for Iihiko himself. It says it for his "strength" or his ability to break things (or ignore durability). So it is not that he is a higher dimensional being, but more that his power of "not-recognizing"/"breaking". Is higher dimensional.

So what they were all saying is that well...Iihiko is a smurf. And that his "strength" is not a problem if you're using styles which he does recognize. So as long as you can make him recognize the "breaking" (as Medaka stated he could break him), his higher dimensional strength is not a problem.

So what do you think of this? The statement was just about his ability not to recognize things, never about Iihiko himself.

 

[QuasiYuri]

It always looked like a common metaphor to me. I agree with this.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I guess I agree

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask Agnaa to comment here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Actually the statement says "of another dimension" not "of a higher dimension". And it says his strength, not his abilities.

Anyway, the statement mostly sounds metaphorial (like "Is on a whole other level") and after the Tiering Revision I don't think it would be accepted as smurfy anyway, as there is no evidence regarding him destroying large higher dimensional spaces.


Essentially no matter how you twist that throw away statement you don't really get anything out of it, other than him being stronger than the rest of the cast.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, but "another" or "higher" shouldn't be a problem considering that the explanation is correct.

About the strength, yes, because they treat even iihiko "breaking abilities" as strength. They don't treat it as an ability.

About the tiering revision, well, what he's portraying would still be infinitely greater than 3D no? Cus he's breaking 3D things as if they were drawings on paper.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, but "another" or "higher" shouldn't be a problem considering that the explanation is correct.

If you are trying to claim something regarding it being higher dimensional it is very much a problem, as that absolutely isn't what is stated.

About the strength, yes, because they treat even iihiko "breaking abilities" as strength. They don't treat it as an ability.

Even then, that doesn't exclude the things that aren't his abilities then.

About the tiering revision, well, what he's portraying would still be infinitely greater than 3D no? Cus he's breaking 3D things as if they were drawings on paper.

No, because that metaphor Medaka is making isn't about a higher-D entity breaking a drawing, but about the ease of ripping apart paper.

I believe that not using throw away statements for higher D upgrades was one of the goals of the revision, tbh.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The metaphor of ripping a paper? Pretty sure that was not the point. She wouldn't need an explanation to just say "we're like paper to him". Otherwise they would not have mentioned "skills do not reach him".

 

[SchroKatze]

"we are like paper to him" sounds just a way to describe how he rips them apart, like he did to Ajimu. As DT said, "another dimension" doesn't imply higher dimensional stuff. It sounds similar, but the meaning is different.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

"we are like paper to him" sounds just a way to describe how he rips them apart, like he did to Ajimu

That's not what she said though. She drew herself on the drawing and even added her ability. But as she says "he breaks us like this". That doesn't really seem like "he's physically stronger" otherwise she would have said similar things everytime she met someone who was physically strong like for example Hinokage.

And besides iihiko wasn't even that strong physically. As soon as Medaka used styles she could win simply because "he could recognize them", which was the entire issue of why abnormalities did not work.

 

[QuasiYuri]

It seems more like how you say "his strength is from another planet", tho it doesn't refers to raw physical power in this case.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

 

[GLHF22]

Agree with DT here, i have encoutered so many words of " His strength is on whole different Dimension" in fiction, for example Ultimate skill power compared to Unique skill on slime is "whole another Dimension" "like heaven and earth" "whole higher level" heck even a mere unique skill can seal people in a complex number of spatial dimensions which prevent people from interacts with the world itself, but of course we never treated "in another Dimension" too literaly.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Glhf

Yes but it's not like we're giving anything off of "on another dimension", it's the explanation and how the ability is portrayed that is giving this.

 

[GLHF22]

@Glhf

Yes but it's not like we're giving anything off of "on another dimension", it's the explanation and how the ability is portrayed that is giving this.

No, Earl if they were really talking about dimensionality they will not say it that way, the terms used there is most likely will be treated as metaphor, why? Because most of fiction doing so the terms "of another Dimension" is quite mainstream in fiction especially when they talking about power and strength of a superior enemy, and you will never get this accepted with 1 vague statement.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>1 vague statement

I literally said that vague statement is not the reason im arguing this....

It is the explanation, feats, mechanics, reasons for why everything works, that are pointing towards "smurf".

 

[GLHF22]

No, no matter how, i cannot see this accepted by the staff if you cannot prove that "another Dimension" is refers to higher D and not a metaphor.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No, no matter how, i cannot see this accepted by the staff if you cannot prove that "another Dimension" is refers to higher D and not a metaphor.

I kind of did.

Abilities do not reach him

Breaks abilities and people as if they're drawings on a paper

Skills are just an annoyance to him as long as he can't recognize them

 

[GLHF22]

No you don't

power null

metaphor

see? This is why i called the second is a metaphor

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Sure, but that's the "mechanics of power null". Every power null has a form of reasoning or mechanics for how it works. For Iihiko it was, that they don't reach him.

Why?

Why?

 

[GLHF22]

Every power null will makes ability cannot reach the user because its nullified, Iihiko didnt recognize ability this it Will cause no harm to him, and i don't see anything implying higher dimensional here.

Why?

Why we should take the one and only statement like that too literally?

The burden is on you.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, but why will it cause no harm?

 

[The_Causality]

Eh i was asked to comment here.

The Original translation said:

µ¼íÕàâÒüîÚüòÒüåÒéôÒüáÒéêÞ¿ÇÕ¢ªÒü«Õ╝ÀÒüòÒü» | Iihiko's strength is in another dimension

This only could be taken either literally or as an Hyperbol, this is why Context is the key with statement, here we have an exemple of how Iihiko exert his other dimension strenght.

Point 1: The sca talk about how Iihiko's strenght work, the said scan is interesting since Tsurubami also talked about Ajimu's reality simultion which was about the fact that she thought that everything is in a Manga, by using what it said and what we know about Anshin's complexe, we can also suggest that this isn't solely about he Powernull anything with a power, but something more complexe that involve higher d stuff, there is also the Paper comparison.

Point 2: The ability don't reache him, this is also an interesting part of how Higher D work, nothing can arm it, even physical stuff, with the point 1, it make more sense for him not being affected by stuff, but that not only powernulled, it's said that it won't even reache him and don't even noticed them, just like how H D aren't reached by stuff, like when you for exemple can't be affected by abilities from a Manga you read, but the words and feeling can reaches you (i find the comparison really funny and interesting but maybe my headcanon) But this ability is reliant of his strenght, if he recognize your strenght, you can affect him.

Basically i see no real problem of him having a literal Higher D strenght but i would wait for more infos (like from the guidebook since he is gonna to be translated) to be sure before doing something with Iihiko. Funnily, Iihiko faced a style that transcend Dimension which could affect him

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Needless to say i agree with Causality.

But that last part about the style, that's more to mean that, no matter the dimensionality they still hear words.

 

[Antvasima]

Have you reached some sort of agreement yet?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not yet. Just me and Causality. Im still waiting for DT to answer back to see if his opinion has changed or what counteraguments he may have.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can ask him to comment here again if he does not respond soon.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree with DT, this Is a serious stretch to grant a character abilities.

Abilities "not reaching" him doesn't point to higher dimensional.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I agree with DT, this Is a serious stretch to grant a character abilities.
Abilities "not reaching" him doesn't point to higher dimensional.

Why do you take just that and completely ignore the explanation for it though? The explanation for why "abilities do not reach him". The fact that he breaks everyone by "breaking the paper" rather than "breaking the drawing in it".

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I read it and none of that points to being higher dimensional.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The breaking characters by breaking the paper instead of the drawing doesn't point towards it? That's textbook difference between 2D and 3D doe.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It's just a description of how easily he can beat them. I don't know why you think this is hard evidence for higher dimensionality.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's not really the point of illustrating though. She could have just said he's very strong physically. Not that he really was considering Medaka was about equal to him after learning the styles and using kurokami phantom.

Considering with the illustration they even say he has a different "kind" of strength.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yeah they could have just said that. But guess what fiction likes to instill descriptive figurative language.

Again different kind of strength doesn't mean anything here regarding higher dimensional. It just means he's strong. It's a common thing within fiction to describe overwhelming strength like this. Ichigo vs Aizen is a common example, where Aizen describes Ichigo as a higher dimensional being but in reality he just meant he was strong.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The idea is don't look at them separately.

"another dimension" -Not enough for 4D ability

"Another kind of strength" - Not enough for 4D ability.

"Illustration of the difference between dimensons" - Not enough for 4D ability.

Obviously they're not enough separately, but they're 1 single explanation. "He has a different kind of strength cus he is of another dimension because he can break abilities similar to how 3D beings break 2D things.

How can it explain it further to make it more believable?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is a very unlikely interpretation. It feels very forced. I'm not very familiar with this verse, but from what I can see here I don't think this is legit.

You should ask staff members like Ultima.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can ask him to comment here again if he does not respond soon.

It may be best if you ask DontTalkDT to decide this soon.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I wouldn't exactly call this unlikely considering this is all in the same page of the manga. But ultima should be a good person to ask here true. I'll drop him a pm.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ionliosite]

From what Causality explained, and given the 3 main points indeed happen on a single page, this proposal makes sense.