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Anime-only. A really cool scene tbh. Should have been in the manga IMO.Doesn't he use it against Naruto in VotE or was that anime only?
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Anime-only. A really cool scene tbh. Should have been in the manga IMO.Doesn't he use it against Naruto in VotE or was that anime only?
This doesn't disprove what I said since Sasuke is basically just saying this lightning is coming from a natural source but doesn't disprove his ability to link his chakra to it to guide and potentially amp it.
The Jutsu being at all connected to a source of chakra at all should be enough to imply this isn't just a lightning bolt.Yes, the chakra is to guide it.
tbf this is an anime-only scene.theres also the fact that Kirin is still used by stronger versions of Sasuke which would mean the speed has to be variable to a degree.
There any info about Kishi helping with the anime or being asked if something is good etc?Anime-only. A really cool scene tbh. Should have been in the manga IMO.
You aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
No one in this thread has proven it's innately non-hyperbolic, the OP only provided the Kanji for the scan without the translation, which isn't evidence for either of our claims, until someone can actually provide the full translation of that raw scan we both can't mak
You aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
No one in this thread has proven it's innately non-hyperbolic, the OP only provided the Kanji for the scan without the translation, which isn't evidence for either of our claims,
You aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
No one in this thread has proven it's innately non-hyperbolic, the OP only provided the Kanji for the scan without the translation, which isn't evidence for either of our claims, until someone can actually provide the full translation of that raw scan we both can't make complete assertions like this.
until someone can actually provide the full translation of that raw scan we both can't make complete assertions like this.
e complete assertions like this.
Yes or no questionYou aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
No one in this thread has proven it's innately non-hyperbolic, the OP only provided the Kanji for the scan without the translation, which isn't evidence for either of our claims, until someone can actually provide the full translation of that raw scan we both can't make complete assertions like this.
I already addressed that in the post you've quoted, i'm going to copy and paste it again because you seemingly missed it.Yes or no question
In an interpretation situations
Do we take someone word who has the most knowledge on the workings of an ability over who has little to knowledge on how an ability works
It's a very simple question
we no really need too much explanation
Decieved's point is more so that there is nothing definitive that makes the SOL statement 100% the way we are interpreting it.Yes or no question
In an interpretation situations
Do we take someone word who has the most knowledge on the workings of an ability over who has little to knowledge on how an ability works
It's a very simple question
we no really need too much explanation
No body has actually gone aginest the translationYou aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
No one in this thread has proven it's innately non-hyperbolic, the OP only provided the Kanji for the scan without the translation, which isn't evidence for either of our claims, until someone can actually provide the full translation of that raw scan we both can't make complete assertions like this.
I could make a list of anime canon characters it would affect but it'll take a while.Yeah
You brought up Jugo earlier
Peeps like shinki and ku might eventually scale
Don't remember every episode in Boruto
And don't plan on rewatching anytime soon
Only listed the characters I remembered
Yea anime canon exists for this.He never uses it again in the manga IIRC.
I think we do use it? Idk if I ever applied it to profiles thowhy arnt we using the current accepted calc for Kirin anyway.
theres nothing wrong with that one.
We are. It's on the verse page.why arnt we using the current accepted calc for Kirin anyway.
theres nothing wrong with that one.
This is why I said just answer yes or no to my question because u are making it way too convolutedI already addressed that in the post you've quoted, i'm going to copy and paste it again because you seemingly missed it.
You aren't understanding that this is an assumption on your part, it's assuming that the databook statement is being extremely literal when you haven't proved that yet, and you're assuming it directly contradicts Zetsu's word when it doesn't innately do so. Just because the databook uses the Kanji for SOL doesn't mean it actuality it moves at the speed of light, you're removing needed context which completes the actual sentence, you can't just remove that context and then specifically focus on set of Kanji, it would be dishonest to do so. Especially for a language like Japanese.
The point i'm getting at is just because Kishimoto used SOL in his explanation of Kirin within the databooks doesn't mean it would innately move at the speed of light without further context because there's room for equal interpretations to come about which don't necessarily contradict Zetsu's word. Using a specific set of Kanji doesn't negate the possibility of the statement being hyperbolic.
Decieved's point is more so that there is nothing definitive that makes the SOL statement 100% the way we are interpreting it.
I don't fully disagree with that so a possibly or likely rating might be better.
I think the statement was just lightning in general not even Kirin it selfI have a question, was Zetsu speaking specifically about the Jutsu Kirin or about lightning in general? Because if he was speaking about lightning in general then his statement isn’t wrong and doesn’t technically apply to Kirin. Since if he was speaking on normal lightning he wouldn’t be factoring in the fact that Kirin uses all the cloud’s energy, unlike normal lightning. Might be food for thought idk.
I think we do use it? Idk if I ever applied it to profiles tho
He was talking about the speed of lightning in general in every translation I've seen. This is before Kirin was even launched too.I have a question, was Zetsu speaking specifically about the Jutsu Kirin or about lightning in general? Because if he was speaking about lightning in general then his statement isn’t wrong and doesn’t technically apply to Kirin. Since if he was speaking on normal lightning he wouldn’t be factoring in the fact that Kirin uses all the cloud’s energy, unlike normal lightning. Might be food for thought idk.
Hmmmmm then idk if we can apply Zetsu’s statement to Kirin. Since Zetsu most likely is speaking broadly about lightning in general. As opposed to Kirin which has so much energy stolen from the cloud it disperses it instantaneously. Normal lightning doesn’t do that, and considering Zetsu shouldn’t know anything about Kirin, I don’t think we should assume his statement applies to anything outside of normal lightning.He was talking about the speed of lightning in general in every translation I've seen. This is before Kirin was even launched too.
That's why I was saying earlier that what Zetsu said doesn't really support either argument.
Zetsu's statement is still before the technique is launched and a hypothesis he's made based on how Sasuke conjured the lightning.I think that Zetsu's statement is still perfectly applicable.
They aren't talking about Kirin being undodgeable because "Sasuke is amping the speed of lightning to be thousands of times faster than normal..." They're talking about Kirin being undodgeable because lightning is fast. Which backs up the fact that Sasuke states he is merely directing the lightning towards Itachi.
Just for clarification, your current accepted calc for Kirin is MHS+.Now I don’t think this interpretation is objectively wrong, it’s where I get my sub-rel Kirin speed calc from, I don’t think it is inherently superior to the following interpretation.
Kakashi's lightnings feats could be an outlier, considering that Shikamaru and Choji failed to react to Kakuzu's lightning attack and needed Kakashi to save them.Zetsu's statement is still before the technique is launched and a hypothesis he's made based on how Sasuke conjured the lightning.
Again, Zetsu did not say the Kirin was Lightning Speed. But that Lightning was Lightning speed.
And even if he did say that it was undodgeable because it's lightning speed that contradicts earlier manga statements about Kakashi.
unless you can prove Kakashi could apparently chop lightning but couldn't react or dodge it for some reason.
It’s borderline Sub-Rel true I’ll correct thatJust for clarification, your current accepted calc for Kirin is MHS+.
You realize he only made the statement for Itachi being invincible to be in relation to the Spirit Weapons that his Susano'o had?If Zetsu says the 1/1000th statement before Kirin is launched, how could he possibly know how fast it would be? Zetsu (who knows Madara) also thinks Itachi is invincible, so clearly Zetsu thinks Itach isn’t losing to madara, this clown is clearly never wrong about anything.
Sasuke doesn't indicate this, rather it's Black Zetsu who says this as the statement references Sasuke as a separate person to the one whose making these statements, using third-person pronouns like "he" and "his" when in reference towards Sasuke's jutsu.Lastly, Sasuke indicates that all of the cloud’s energy is utilized in created the Kirin lightning bolt. Which is supported by the cloud dissipating after Kirin is used.
you'd have to prove Shikamaru and Choji have better reaction speeds than the Kakashi who cut the bolt of lightning. which is honestly unlikely since Kakashi did still have a fully matured Sharingan back then.Kakashi's lightnings feats could be an outlier, considering that Shikamaru and Choji failed to react to Kakuzu's lightning attack and needed Kakashi to save them.
My b, I read that too fast, thanks for the clarificationSasuke doesn't indicate this, rather it's Black Zetsu who says this as the statement references Sasuke as a separate person to the one whose making these statements, using third-person pronouns like "he" and "his" when in reference towards Sasuke's jutsu.
We also know this is Black Zetsu saying this because the entire paragraph is bolded, which is used to distinct from Black Zetsu saying something comparative to White Zetsu or someone else saying something.
You realise he only made the statement regarding lightning in relation to a jutsu in which he had 0 knowledge on and had no way of knowing how fast it would be?You realize he only made the statement for Itachi being invincible to be in relation to the Spirit Weapons that his Susano'o had?
He didn't have 0 knowledge on it; he had just listened to Sasuke's explanation of it.You realise he only made the statement regarding lightning in relation to a jutsu in which he had 0 knowledge on and had no way of knowing how fast it would be?
I must have misread where Sasuke says his jutsu is the speed of lightningHe didn't have 0 knowledge on it; he had just listened to Sasuke's explanation of it.
Zetsu is actually the one that says this part.Lastly, Sasuke indicates that all of the cloud’s energy is utilized in created the Kirin lightning bolt. Which is supported by the cloud dissipating after Kirin is used.
Zetsu is actually the one that says this part.
Sasuke doesn't indicate this, rather it's Black Zetsu who says this as the statement references Sasuke as a separate person to the one whose making these statements, using third-person pronouns like "he" and "his" when in reference towards Sasuke's jutsu.
We also know this is Black Zetsu saying this because the entire paragraph is bolded, which is used to distinct from Black Zetsu saying something comparative to White Zetsu or someone else saying something.
My b, I read that too fast, thanks for the clarification
my fault I'll let you ****