Grappler Baki: Making a Tier 7 verse Tier 7

[Serlock_Holmes]

too bad there is statement there about 40 yards in 4,2 seconds, so should we ignore how and why the feat happend here as well?

Since that phrase is there this is how the author portrayed it....he made the light to make it look cool

i kind of do, and so should everyone because how he stopped it detremines what he gets

Everyone has said why you are wrong on this.

 

[ByAsura]

and we give them supernatural stats and abilities to make sens of them, i don't see the point of bringing this up?

They're actually based on the logic of the verse, not the headcanon you've applied to make this feat invalid.

here, we see the character disappear in a blinding flash of light and create what looks like sonic booms as he explosively accelerates into a tier of speed actively compared to the speed of light, how fast is he actually?

Were you not the one who said 'other verses have nothing to do with this either'? Your argument doesn't matter by your own logic.

Also, as I said before 'Sometimes we do scrutinise feats that aren't accurate in terms of their stated scale, but that's about it.' The feat you gave falls under that kind of scrutinisation, while the feat that Yujiro performed does not because the illogic has nothing to do with how powerful it was.

evidence?

You're the one making the claim that he could have used hax to nullify it. The burden of proof is on you, not me, because it's literally stated that his force/power/the punch is what stopped the earthquake in the manga.

So, now I ask you, care to give any evidence that Yujiro used hax?

The fact is, the manga and anime has never so much as implied that he's capable of literally nullifying energy like a Dragon Ball character.

..has nothing to do with the point

Yes it does.

You asked 'what kind of ability nullified the earthquake's energy?', and I'm saying that he doesn't have such an ability according to the verse. It was a ******* punch; it remains a punch; it will always be a punch for all of time.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

They're actually based on the logic of the verse, not the headcanon you've applied to make this feat invalid.

Were you not the one who said 'other verses have nothing to do with this either'? Your argument doesn't matter by your own logic.

Also, as I said before 'Sometimes we do scrutinise feats that aren't accurate in terms of their stated scale, but that's about it.' The feat you gave falls under that kind of scrutinisation, while the feat that Yujiro performed does not because the illogic has nothing to do with how powerful it was.

You're the one making the claim that he could have used hax to nullify it. The burden of proof is on you, not me, because it's literally stated that his force is what stopped the earthquake in the manga.

So, I ask you, care to give any evidence that Yujiro used hax?

The fact is, the manga and anime has never so much as implied that he's capable of literally nullifying energy like a Dragon Ball character.

Yes it does.

You asked 'what kind of ability nullified the earthquake's energy?', and I'm saying that he doesn't have such an ability according to the verse. It was a ***** punch; it remains a punch; it will always be a punch for all of time.

Maybe Yujiro is an earth bender though.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I agree with byasura since ochams razor supports him, it’s like the most blatant thing and trying to add more nonexistent factors just doesn’t make sense

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Should we just go through with it. The argument is just circular semantics with calculations and is utterly pointless. It already got multiple approval anyway including calc members and i don't think the other party is willing to change their overgrounded approach

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Are there enough votes?

 

[Passersby]

They're actually based on the logic of the verse

the verse follows irl logic to the basic level, and i also don't see how this addresses my arguments

,not the headcanon you've applied to make this feat invalid.

i have never argued to make this feat invalid in the first place, you're strawmanning my position

i'm asking that considering the feat is physically impossibe to perform, what kind of method was used to produce the energy and does it scale to his physicals or is just hax?

and do you have any evidence to support your claim?

this ^is what i asked, and what no one has yet to answer

Were you not the one who said 'other verses have nothing to do with this either'? Your argument doesn't matter by your own logic.

lmao


however

The logic behind it is simple; the author is not the sharpest tool in the shed, and simply thought that a stronger force than the earthquake itself would overpower an earthquake. Kind of like how people think that a stronger explosion will overpower a weaker explosion.

this is a statement that effects the general view of how we should treat and view feats in all verses not just this one, so other verses do in fact matter


the first other verses have nothing to do with this was a response to him stating that a lot of other feats in multiple verse are treated the same as this one, which if true, requires a different CRT to address all of them one by one in a step by step basis, something that has nothing to do with this feat on hand and doesn't address any of my points, it just shifts the blame

other verses do it 2, let's also do it , isn't exactly a good argument

Also, as I said before 'Sometimes we do scrutinise feats that aren't accurate in terms of their stated scale, but that's about it.' The feat you gave falls under that kind of scrutinisation, while the feat that Yujiro performed does not.

i am simply asking do we have any idea how yujiro performed this?

i'm asking that considering the feat is physically impossibe to perform, what kind of method was used to produce the energy and does it scale to his physicals or is just hax?

and do you have any evidence to support your claim?

this^

You're the one making the claim that he could have used hax to nullify it. The burden of proof is on you, not me, because it's literally stated that his force is what stopped the earthquake.

i have not stated that it's hax, i proposed as a possibility because the feat is physically impossible to perform, which actually helps my case and not yours

because it's literally stated that his force is what stopped the earthquake.

by other characters that have no idea about his actual abilities, the burden is still on you, you don't have any concrete evidence that it's force, especially when the feat is, again, physically impossible to perform, which means it's more likely than not the method used is a supernatural ability and not one that follows the laws of physics

The fact is, the manga and anime has never so much as implied that he's capable .

that still doesn't matter, you're still ignoring my points and my question

You asked 'what kind of ability nullified the earthquake's energy?', and I'm saying that he doesn't have such an ability.

i asked for the method

again

i'm asking that considering the feat is physically impossibe to perform, what kind of method was used to produce the energy and does it scale to his physicals or is just hax?

and do you have any evidence to support your claim?

 

[Majinere566]

okay then, how?

do you know how the earthquake stopped?

was his punch carrying supernatural earth stabilizing properties?

did he absorb all the enegy within the earthquake to himself?

you're looking at the sequence of events while already having determined the method of how the earthquake stopped without any evidence on your part

punch happened-> something in the punch nullified the earthqake's energy -> the earthquake stopped


what kind of ability nullified the earthquake's energy?

Overcomplicating a simple ass feat.

He punched the ground, Earthquake stopped.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

i am simply asking do we have any idea how yujiro performed this?

By punching really hard.

Overcomplicating a simple ass feat.

He punched the ground, Earthquake stopped.

Seriously there are so many weird ass feats and this is the one you go to? A simple punch and stop.

 

[ByAsura]

Honestly, if it's just more of this in the future, it's not worth responding to.

the verse follows irl logic to the basic level, and i also don't see how this addresses my arguments

I don't see how this addresses my argument.

i have never argued to make this feat invalid in the first place, you're strawmanning my position

That's literally all you're doing. You literally even say later 'it's more likely than not the method used is a supernatural ability and not one that follows the laws of physics.' It doesn't matter whether it's through questioning, since you've already told us your default assumption.

this is a statement that effects the general view of how we should treat and view feats in all verses not just this one, so other verses do in fact matter

Cool. Save it for a separate CRT that'd affect all of VSBW. This has nothing to do with Baki.

i am simply asking do we have any idea how yujiro performed this?

Yes, he punched the ground, producing enough force to overpower the earthquake.

i have not stated that it's hax, i proposed as a possibility because the feat is physically impossible to perform, which actually helps my case and not yours

And I'm saying that reason, logic and verse mechanics suggest he simply overpowered it. The fact that there's nothing like this in-verse helps my assertion.

by other characters that have no idea about his actual abilities, the burden is still on you, you don't have any concrete evidence that it's force, especially when the feat is, again, physically impossible to perform, which means it's more likely than not the method used is a supernatural ability and not one that follows the laws of physics

Bruv... bruv.

We literally see that he punched the ground, we know that he punched the ground, we're told that it was his raw physical power (which 'surpasses Gaia') that did this shit.

You know what else is physically impossible to perform? Techniques that supernaturally nullify energy. Your postulations do not matter.

i asked for the methode

A normal, albeit extremely strong, punch.

 

[Majinere566]

Seriously there are so many weird ass feats and this is the one you go to? A simple punch and stop.

Like it's just Olympics level mental gymnastics atp. And if yujiro had to do some extra shit to stop it, Baki is the type of manga to get the narrator explaining every single bit of his actions.


But this is as simple as it gets.

 

[ByAsura]

Like it's just Olympics level mental gymnastics atp. And if yujiro had to do some extra shit to stop it, Baki is the type of manga to get the narrator explaining every single bit of his actions.

I was literally just about to mention this as well.

I'm not sure about this part of Baki (I haven't read it in a while), but Baki as a whole is infamous for giving explanations for even the most mundane shit (see the Spec fight).

If Yujiro (who rarely ever uses proper techniques, to the point where the existence of Dress is stressed heavily) used a special technique, the ******* narrator would be like:

'Through intense training, Yujiro can use his perfectly toned cheeks to reflect sunlight and harass local earth spirits, influencing the tectonic movement of the planet. Tesla planned a similar invention in the 20th century. However, even he hasn't fully mastered it, and it must be done through tactile contact.'

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah literally Itagaki would be writing five pages about just the technigue used.

If Yujiro (who rarely ever uses proper techniques) used a special technique, the ***** narrator would be like:

We know that by him learning Shaori and everyone losing their shit.

 

[Passersby]

I don't see how this addresses my argument.

lol,it doesn't, i just addressed one of your prior point

That's literally all you're doing.
You are questioning the validity of the feat in the first place based on your opinion that it could be hax.

i am asking the method the feat was performed in and how it was performed, because the answer determines what yujiro gets

it's also not my opinon, i provided sufficient reasoning and arguments so back up my position, you have not addressed any of them

the possibility that it's hax is still very much a thing because the feat is physically impossible to perform

Cool. Save it for a separate CRT that'd affect all of VSBW. This has nothing to do with Baki.

this is not exactly a rule in the site?

it also has everything to do with baki and any other verse where that argument is used

Yes, he punched the ground, producing enough force to overpower the earthquake.

...i feel like at this point no one is even taking this seriously

yujiro used his punch that has earth stabilization properties to stop the earthquake,

see? i can make unsubstantiated claims two

And I'm saying that reason, logic and verse mechanics suggest he simply overpowered it. The fact that there's nothing like this in-verse helps my assertion.

neither reason nor logic helps your case, they very help mine as the feat is still very much physically impossible to perform if we follow the laws of physics


the author intent, verse intent and any other intent does not matter, what does matter is how the feat happened, wether the same thing happens again or not and wether he uses any prior abilities he showed or not has nothing to do with this current feat

Bruv... bruv.

We literally see that he punched the ground, we know that he punched the ground, we're told that it was his raw physical power (which 'surpasses Gaia' that did this shit).

by other characters....i legit feel tired

how the author intended for the feat to be, how the other charactes said the feat happened, literally everything elses aside from how the feat actually happened doesn't matter, because we know for certain how the feat happened

and based on that knowledge, we concluded that this feat is physically impossible to happen, so the possibolity that' it's hax, is, again, still very much a thing

You know what else is physically impossible to perform? Having techniques that supernaturally nullify energy. Your postulations do not matter.

cool, that's hax as well, energy nullification

A normal punch.

a normal punch with no supernatural properties cannot perform physically impossible actions, that's not exactly saying much

 

[ByAsura]

This is literally just the exact same mental gymnastics you used last time. Like I said, I'm not going to respond properly, because it's clear at this point that you'll just keep repeating the exact same arguments as if asking a half-baked question makes your position correct by default.

These are the only two points I'll respond to.

by other characters....i legit feel tired

Those characters included martial artists, some rather high-end ones too.

If literally nobody has heard of this particular technique, then that doesn't support your bullshit.

the possibility that it's hax is still very much a thing because the feat is physically impossible to perform

Fyi, I never said it was impossible. I said showings in the verse, statements by the characters and Occam's Razor (so basically literally all of the evidence available) doesn't point to that conclusion.

see? i can make unsubstantiated claims two

Yes, I could see that throughout this entire conversation.

You're saying this as if it's a new thing.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

This is literally just the exact same mental gymnastics you used last time. Like I said, I'm not going to respond, because it's clear at this point that you'll just keep repeating the exact same arguments as if asking a half-baked question makes your point correct by default.

This is the only point I'll respond to.

Those characters included martial artists.

If literally nobody has heard of this particular technique, then that doesn't support your bullshit.

Do we have enough votes for the change to go through?

a normal punch with no supernatural properties cannot perform physically impossible actions, that's not exactly saying much

It can if it's portrayed as such. Seriously I don't feel you are doing well with the hobby. Reality isn't the end all to any argument. Since that's what happened and noone claimed differently that's how it happened. You want to give him Earth manipulation as well? Go for it make a crt.

 

[Passersby]

This is literally just the exact same mental gymnastics you used last time. Like I said, I'm not going to respond, because it's clear at this point that you'll just keep repeating the exact same arguments as if asking a half-baked question makes your point correct by default.

so you're going to use the lol, those are nothing but mental gymnastics, nothing worth mentioning statement to handwave all my arguments,


well then

Those characters included martial artists
If literally nobody has heard of this particular technique, then that doesn't support your bullshit.

how the author intended for the feat to be, how the other charactes said the feat happened, literally everything elses aside from how the feat actually happened doesn't matter, because we know for certain how the feat happened

and based on that knowledge, we concluded that this feat is physically impossible to happen, so the possibolity that' it's hax, is, again, still very much a thing

it seems everyone is in favor of this, so i guess it's whatever

i still don't appreciate handwaving everything i said tho

 

[ByAsura]

You've literally been doing nothing but handwaving and stonewalling through out this entire thread. This is why nobody else is responding to your points, either.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Does anyone have any thoughts of the calc? As it is it's an outlier: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mikazzzuchi/Grappler_Baki:_Kaioh_retsu_dodges_explosion

 

[ByAsura]

That does constitute an outlier, IIRC.

I'll look into what bomb Doyle used. Maybe we can get a result that works better.

 

[Passersby]

You've literally been doing nothing but handwaving and stonewalling through out this entire thread. This is why nobody else is responding to your points, either.

well, let's just go with that ig, i didn't really mean to antagonze anyone either so let's just stop here

i want to say we had fun argument, judging by that statement, you probably didn't

anyways, i wish you all a wonderful day

see ya mate

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

That does constitute an outlier, IIRC.

I'll look into what bomb Doyle used. Maybe we can get a result that works better.

Yeah that's way way too much of an outlier. Maybe mach 20 and down would be good? Preferably mach 10.

well, let's just go with that ig, i didn't really mean to antagonze anyone either so let's just stop here

i want to say we had fan argument, judging by that statement, you probably didn't

anyways, i wish you all a wonderful day

see ya mate

Sorry if I came off as dismissing. I just disagree with your interpretation.

 

[ByAsura]

I genuinely apologise for being mean. But, honestly my dude, you need to understand that the fact that possibilities exist doesn't make it this site's default assumption, especially when there's literally only evidence in that entire verse to support the opposite conclusion.

Possible does not mean probable or likely.

 

[Passersby]

I genuinely apologise for being mean. But, honestly my dude, you need to understand that the fact that possibilities exist doesn't make it this site's default assumption, especially when there's literally only evidence in that entire verse to support the opposite conclusion.

nah, no worries fam, getting upset happens, it's understandable

it just seems my interpretation was different, but the the opposite conclusion also has merit, i just wanted pointed the fact that other possibilities exist, so i was more supporting a likely or possibly 7C rating, since he did indeed nullifie the energy of the earthquake, i wasn't really supporting discarding the entire thing

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

That does constitute an outlier, IIRC.

I'll look into what bomb Doyle used. Maybe we can get a result that works better.

Any idea of the possible bomb type used?

 

[ByAsura]

Any idea of the possible bomb type used?

I'm looking into that.

supporting a likely or possibly 7C rating

In that case, then I've misunderstood your intentions. I can get behind it, but I still disagree.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I just dislike likely or possible. Not just for this feat which is perfectly clear at least to me but as a concept I'm against it. I do understand it's usefulness though. Also a likely or possible here would be if off screen we were said that Yujiro stopped an earthquake. Here the feat is before us that's why I don't agree with that even more.

 

[Scottycj256]

no, i'm asking that considering the feat is physically impossibe to perform

you have not watched baki, LITERALLY EVERYTHING in the show is physically impossible to do in real life

 

[Scottycj256]

if it was something like Breaking Bad showing Gus Fring walking out of the room after being blown up yeah that'd be considered bullshit (because it basically is,)

Baki has consistent showings of bullshit feats all throughout the series, whether its Yujiro single-handedly holding off all the american forces in the vietnam war, being shown to physically tank America's strongest artillery point blank, Pickle surviving the extinction of the dinosaurs, OR Yujiro punching an earthquake

WE SEE
YUJIRO
PUNCH AN EARTHQUAKE
AND STOP IT IMMEDIATELY

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And since when is it ever even mentioned or shown that Yujiro can perform hax that doesn't scale to him physically (I stress scale to him because he does have hax-adjacent stuff) with a regular punch?

There is this?

Like... these aren't insignificant showings, the authors intent highlighted these things for a reason I would say

Gaia is someone who's very good at manipulating and utilizing the environment in kinda unnatural ways

Something he does even as extreme as manipulating ones body in a way

So I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it (even tho it's not explicitly mentioned)

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

The plant stuff is weird. However we have nothing to go by as to what happened. The others I don't understand what you meant to say.

 

[ByAsura]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that supposed to emphasise Yujiro's aura, which is so terrifying that it can cause quakes (meaning, even if he did use it to make the earthquake, it'd still scale to him) and make people beat each other rather than fight him?

The second one is literally just the equivalent of giving someone a paper cut.

The third one was against a person, not even the environment.

Neither of those are even applicable to Yujiro, anyway.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah those are just Gaia technigues. Except Yujiro's aura which does some weird stuff. The plant probably chose to kill itself knowing Yujiro.

 

[ByAsura]

The plant stuff is weird. However we have nothing to go by as to what happened. The others I don't understand what you meant to say.

It's worth noting that there's actual image training shit in the exact same vein as the earthquake feat that is hax. But it still scales to the characters physically.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

It's worth noting that there's actual image training shit in the exact same vein as the earthquake feat that is hax. But it still scales to the characters physically.

Well yeah it's mostly the idea of Shadow boxing taken to the level of making the opponent's strenght basically reality, but it specifically has the problem of only taking the strenght to a level the user can relate to shown with baki basicaly tanking the punch. However nothing like that was shown in Yujiro's punch. Actually that feat helps even more because it produces similar (meaning seismic properties) albeit smaller results due to this Yujiro being weaker than the real deal.

Don't know if that was the case for Yuichiro? Maybe it was his soul due to knowing via musashi that those do exist. Which would make sense that Musashi needs a special technigue to bind it but Yuichiro just comes and holds a casual chat as a soul. This is irrelevant however.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that supposed to emphasise Yujiro's aura, which is so terrifying that people beat each other rather than fight him?

The whole arc or thing was about Gaia being the closest to yuijro or something, which is then why baki goes to fight Gaia... So to then fight his father

Before going to the location of the fight, it shows the plant dying and when he arrives he also brings a defeated gaia

Probably showing that the manipulation of the environment won't be effective on him

After he punches the earthquake, Strydum correlates that to what defeated Gaia who manipulates the earth

The plant withering away is probably his way of showing a similar thing Gaia does but instead of making it an ally, he destroy/kills it somehow but yee, just wanted to highlight that this thing exists and might be way he was able to preform the feat

The third one was against a person, not even the environment.

These chapters are connected btw, he says the same way he can utilize the environment, he can do to ones body as well

 

[ByAsura]

Like all this shit is through strength.

He was so strong and intimidating at birth that entire nations, most of which didn't know about him, 'coincidentally' began stockpiling nukes.

 

[ByAsura]

Probably showing that the manipulation of the environment won't be effective on him

We're not arguing about its effectiveness on Yujiro, though.

After he punches the earthquake, Strydum correlates that to what defeated Gaia who manipulates the earth

He correlates it to strength that surpasses the goddess Gaia.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

After he punches the earthquake, Strydum correlates that to what defeated Gaia who manipulates the earth

He wasn't meaning Gaia the supersoldier. I think he was meaning Gaia as in the planet Earth. I had the exact same problem with Strydum's statement but Gaia is never referred that way. He was probably talking about the planet straight up.

It is weird though that he wrote God instead of Goddess but whatever floats his boat. Gaia the supersoldier would never be compared to a god. Hanmas are barely compared to that.

Probably showing that the manipulation of the environment won't be effective on him

I feel like you are looking way into it. Why would that make sense against baki? Both are brutes who just duke it out.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We're not arguing about its effectiveness on Yujiro, though.

He correlates it to strength that surpasses the goddess Gaia.

I'll try to find maybe statements of this situation, if it exists tho