Grappler Baki: Making a Tier 7 verse Tier 7

[Passersby]

Hey, don't argue with me on that. Go argue with tye entire concept of power scaling and make them change this long standing basic rule that AP and DC aren't equal. You know, because otherwise universal characters would destroy a universe every time they punch by your logic.

Let's be serious

i am serious, dragon ball is a mess, don't even use it as an example my friend

that concept only applies when there is a consistent number of feats backing up the scaling for it, it ain't the same here cheif, there is a single 7C feat and somehow that's the only valid one, not a single other feat in the entire series (all of them are tier 9 or 8) ar valid

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

oh hell no, if a mf is galaxy level but can't even break a brick that's either a huge outlier or an anti feat

No it's how fiction works. That's why I have said tone down your expectations on those departments.

Attack Potency​

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Literally the standards Passer. It's not my stance. It's the wiki's.

 

[NikHelton]

The Earthquake feat does scale to people that aren't Yujiro, so no.

Although I will say that the vast, vast, vast majority of the profiles we have don't scale, since Yujiro casually one-shot Hanayama in Bakidou.

Then how about just using "possibly far higher"

 

[Passersby]

I'm not actively ignoring it, it just doesn't matter. You're not understanding that simply not destroying something isn't grounds for a downgrade.

By your logic, we should downgrade Baki to Wall level just because only broke a car and made some craters in concrete during the Yujiro fight.

i am not proposing that, what i am proposing is stop ignoring the consistent number of tier 8 and tier 9 feats that the series has

that's where it's somewhat consistent, not like anyone here would listen tho

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

that concept only applies when there is a consistent number of feats backing up the scaling for it, it ain't the same here cheif, there is a single 7C feat and somehow that's the only valid one, not a single other feat in the entire series (all of them are tier 9 or 8) ar valid

Problem is the feat was done by the god tier of the verse. Had anyone else done it that would be bad. But consistently Yujiro beats anyone. Outliers literally can't apply to him.

 

[Twellas]

***** not to get up, Baki is as strong as a million servings of ramen.
Hanayama was pure light. The power of the star is in his fists and 4-C.
Musashi was absolute darkness. A walking black hole with katanas. 4-B.

Shibukawa's visions are outright stated to be directly linked to the strength of his opponent. Musashi just imagines random shit mostly

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

i am serious, dragon ball is a mess, don't even use it as an example my friend

that concept only applies when there is a consistent number of feats backing up the scaling for it, it ain't the same here cheif, there is a single 7C feat and somehow that's the only valid one, not a single other feat in the entire series (all of them are tier 9 or 8) ar valid

Your examples would also be arguments against tier 9 and 8 scaling. And I never brought up dragon ball. You can look at any universal verse, trust me, you'll rarely see them destroy a universe. If at all.

This applies for any high tier verse, even country level and such. How many countries have been destroyed in such verses? Very little I assume.

 

[Passersby]

Problem is the feat was done by the god tier of the verse. Had anyone else done it that would be bad. But consistently Yujiro beats anyone. Outliers literally can't apply to him.

said god tier's other feats are consistently at tier 8 at best, no yes, outliers do apply to him

 

[ByAsura]

Then how about just using "possibly far higher"

The calc is what it is.

If you disagree with it, and your logic gets accepted, we'd just downgrade it. We wouldn't give it a likely/possibly.

i am not proposing that, what i am proposing is stop ignoring the consistent number of tier 8 and tier 9 feats that the series has

Again, it doesn't matter when said feats (I'm assuming you're talking about anything below 8-B) can be replicated and even surpassed by characters who are comparatively fodder, or were done ultra-casually.

 

[NikHelton]

Shibukawa's visions are outright stated to be directly linked to the strength of his opponent. Musashi just imagines random shit mostly

This wiki has a bad attitude towards anti-exploits, but vulkan was cut by a broken bottle and stopped by a taser?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Your examples would also be arguments against tier 9 and 8 scaling. And I never brought up dragon ball. You can look at any universal verse, trust me, you'll rarely see them destroy a universe. If at all.

This applies for any high tier verse, even country level and such. How many countries have been destroyed in such verses? Very little I assume.

Only one who is somewhat consistent is One punch man I think.

said god tier's other feats are consistently at tier 8 at best, no yes, outliers do apply to him

He has various statements of people saying his fist is more powerful than a nuke strike. People who don't even know him are not sure if a nuke would do him. His closest allies who know more about him say he is more powerful than the USA's entire army and everything they have. So while he doesn't have feats he has statements even above this feat. That's why it's not an outlier for him.

 

[Passersby]

Your examples would also be arguments against tier 9 and 8 scaling. And I never brought up dragon ball. You can look at any universal verse, trust me, you'll rarely see them destroy a universe. If at all.

This applies for any high tier verse, even country level and such. How many countries have been destroyed in such verses? Very little I assume.

of course, i am not speaking on how he should literally destroy continents, that's not how punches work, a punch simply transfers it's energy to the body it touches, there is no, or at least there shouldn't be any supernatural shockwave to propogate the damage done unless the attack's speed is of sufficient velocities

however, this punch did nothing, the way it should have went is the 7C punch goes straight trough the wall and then the recoil affects his arms, due to the energy finding nowhere to go to but his arms

that didn't happen, he only made a single crater with what seems to be his strongest punch, yeah, sorry, not buying it

 

[Passersby]

Again, it doesn't matter when said feats (I'm assuming you're talking about anything below 8-B) can be replicated and even surpassed by characters who are otherwise fodder, or were done ultra-casually.

they were not done ultra casually, that was hos strongest punch, it was like, 9A? 8C?

if that's an outlier (there are 2 of them, this outlier is literally more consistent than the 7C feat) , then the 7C one sure as hell is as well

 

[NikHelton]

The calc is what it is.

In this case, the entire verse rises to 7-C

If you disagree with it, and your logic gets accepted, we'd just downgrade it. We wouldn't give it a likely/possibly.

That's why I proposed magnitude 5, which Therefir approved

Again, it doesn't matter when said feats (I'm assuming you're talking about anything below 8-B) can be replicated and even surpassed by characters who are otherwise fodder, or were done ultra-casually.

If we exclude this feat, then we are left with an 8-B earthquake, which is completely top tier, a skyscraper shake, which is High 8-C and two 8-C feats, which are performed by Hanayama, who is able to beat Musashi to death.
Aft characters Barely perform 9-B/9-A feats

 

[ByAsura]

I'm talking about the Kaioh feats, and the like.

My guy, you can't tell us to stop ignoring Yujiro's tier 8/9 feats, and then proceed to ignore every single feat that's above this stupid Demon Back punch. Hell, the two punches you gave vary massively in destructive power, despite coming from two similarly powerful characters.

Even Nik calculated that base Yujiro getting angry is far above this level.

 

[ByAsura]

In this case, the entire verse rises to 7-C

According to one guy. That scaling (aside from just kinda being wrong) would need a separate CRT to actually pass.

That's why I proposed magnitude 5, which Therefir approved

Sure. Like I said, calcs are what they are.

If we exclude this feat, then we are left with an 8-B earthquake, which is completely top tier, a skyscraper shake, which is High 8-C and two 8-C feats, which are performed by Hanayama, who is able to beat Musashi to death.
Aft characters Barely perform 9-B/9-A feats

If you don't factor in the multitude of statements that y'all are ignoring.

Also, no, it was performed by Hanayama in a spin-off that was made before Pickle Wars. So he wasn't that powerful at the time.

 

[Passersby]

I'm talking about the Kaioh feats, and the like.

My guy, you can't tell us to stop ignoring Yujiro's tier 8/9 feats, and then proceed to ignore every single feat that's above this stupid Demon Back punch. Hell, the two punches you gave vary massively in destructive power, despite coming from two similarly powerful characters.

Even Nik calculated that base Yujiro getting angry is far above this level.

i called them ouliers?
it's sad that the outliers are more consistent than the earthquake feat tho
also, there is nothing to indicate his aura scales to his physicals, just like every other verse

He has various statements of people saying his fist is more powerful than a nuke strike.

a statement is simply a sentence that is a claim or is tmaking a point, there are many different types of statements.

statements can describe a wide variety of aspects, be it physical or non physical, the conclusion and the validity of the statement depends on what is being discussed and the context, it also has to be analyzed in order to determine wether it's true or false , statements themselves dont change anything, they just describe the feats shown within the series,so when used by themselves dont determine if something is true or false, they only determine whether something is true or false if the statement is based on something physical that is true within the series and has evidence directly or indirectly from that physical thing.


most characters aren't all knowing about everything, even characters who are knowledgeable about a certain subject can lie, they may not know everything about that subject or can simply be misinformed, sp their statement has to be shown to be true or is possible compared to what the subject is


for example: In the manga, political leaders state that yujiro is as strong as nuclear war heads

sure he said that, but does he know what he is talking about? did he ever drop a nuke on yujiro and he managed to simply tank it? is the information provided accurate and not simply a byproduct of his fear? Does he know everything about yujiro's abilities and strenght? there are other questions to be answered as well.

even if a the statements provided aren't contradicted that doesnt automatically mean the information is right. statements can be wrong or right no matter if its contradicted or not,all the characters do within the fictional setting is provide the information/statements, its up for the us to see if what is being said is true or possible based on the feats seen in the story and then analyze the info provided based on the context.


there are also Guidebook statements, and people generally just take them at face value


however, guidebooks are just supplemental information that expands upon feats from a fictional work, If it's information is contradicted by the fictional work it's describing or isn't backed up by any evidence then its most likely false.

for example, if a guidebook describes a character's attack potency to be 5B but he consistenly shows 7C feats, then the guidebook statement will be ignored


This is why statements that are describing physical phenomenons like AP, speed etc have to be analyzed on a step by step basis. The feats are what shows the physical changes that occur and the statements are just conclusions that can be true or false, so they should not be taken as evidence for feats

already addressed, statements shouldn't be used as evidence until you prove they're reliable

People who don't even know him are not sure if a nuke would do him.

...so, if they don't know him, why are we even taking them seriously?

His closest allies who know more about him say he is more powerful than the USA's entire army and everything they have.

he is stronger than the USA army, as any 8B and supersonic+ character would be

So while he doesn't have feats he has statements even above this feat. That's why it's not an outlier for him.

why are those statements even taken seriously?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Sure. Like I said, calcs are what they are.

Pretty sure DMUA, Clover and Armor(likely) agree with 6 more. Could you tag them?

 

[NikHelton]

I'm talking about the Kaioh feats, and the like.

My guy, you can't tell us to stop ignoring Yujiro's tier 8/9 feats, and then proceed to ignore every single feat that's above this stupid Demon Back punch. Hell, the two punches you gave vary massively in destructive power, despite coming from two similarly powerful characters.

Even Nik calculated that base Yujiro getting angry is far above this level.

ByAsura, I can understand his logic and I want to make a thread on this topic when I return from a trip.

In general, I think we should treat the exploits of shaking and earthquakes more strictly, because this is a favorite technique in manga and anime.

My personal opinion, which I will later write down in the CRT, is that the exploits of an earthquake should be supportive, not giving a level of strength.
With the exception of earthquakes of magnitude 9 and 10, which cause real destruction.

Thus, we have a Prototype, where a character who turned into a puddle from the impact of 20 tons and showed nothing above the level of the building turns out to be stronger than 8-A.
In Kengan, the stern character causes an earthquake by simply walking, although he belonged to the low tier and has feats of barely 9-A.
The same Garlan was able to cause a small earthquake in the arena, but too small.

Earthquake exploits are usually an outlier in their verses

 

[ByAsura]

i called them ouliers?
it's sad that the outliers are more consistent than the earthquake feat tho

I can't even understand what the argument is here.

also, there is nothing to indicate his aura scales to his physicals, just like every other verse

If you really think that, then there's no saving you /j.

 

[ByAsura]

In general, I think we should treat the exploits of shaking and earthquakes more strictly, because this is a favorite technique in manga and anime.

I think that's agreeable, but there's a gigantic difference between an actual earthquake and a character shaking the ground.

So what you're saying doesn't make sense in the context of the Baki feat because it's literally a natural earthquake.

 

[Passersby]

I can't even understand what the argument is here.

nothing really, i said those 2 were outliers, however, these outliers are way more consistent than the 7C feat

If you really think that, then there's no saving you /j.

not really, i just need more context on how his aura works, for all i know, that's spirtiual pressure or something


i feel like you all think this is a war, i'm just arguing over a verse i know a little about, if you could provide some context that would be appreciated

 

[NikHelton]

According to one guy. That scaling (aside from just kinda being wrong) would need a separate CRT to actually pass.

I understand that we haven't created a thread for discussion yet, however, this scaling makes sense and is the main problem of the verse that we discussed in the last thread

If you don't factor in the multitude of statements that y'all are ignoring.

These statements have never been verified. We were not given anything even close to accept them as reliable

Also, no, it was performed by Hanayama in a spin-off that was made before Pickle Wars. So he wasn't that powerful at the time.

As far as I remember, the events of the manga about Hanayama take place before the events of Baki Dou

 

[Twellas]

That scaling (aside from just kinda being wrong)

how is it wrong

 

[ByAsura]

i feel like you all think this is a war, i'm just arguing over a verse i know a little about, if you could provide some context that would be appreciated

/j means I'm joking.

I'll get back to you on that.

I understand that we haven't created a thread for discussion yet, however, this scaling makes sense and is the main problem of the verse that we discussed in the last thread

VSBW doesn't treat problems that don't even exist yet like that.

These statements have never been verified. We were not given anything even close to accept them as reliable

Except by multiple presidents, many world leaders, joint chiefs, Yujiro's literal birth, etc.

As far as I remember, the events of the manga about Hanayama take place before the events of Baki Dou

The feat was in chapter 2, which came out at the start of 2006, before the series Baki Hanma. Dou was released in 2014, and Hanayama was 20 there, not 19 like with Gaiden.

 

[Passersby]

/j means I'm joking.

...well, that's one more thing for my uncultured self to know ig

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

he is stronger than the USA army, as any 8B and supersonic+ character would be

He is stated stronger than the arsenal of the army. Not the army.

 

[NikHelton]

VSBW doesn't treat problems that don't even exist yet like that.

I just announced that before applying the feat, we should solve the problem with scaling

Except by multiple presidents, joint chiefs, Yujiro's literal birth, etc.

Yes, these same people say they can't even check it out

The feat was in chapter 2, which came out at the start of 2006, before the series Baki Hanma. Dou was 2014, and Hanayama was 20 there, not 19 like with Gaiden.

Okay, thank you

 

[Twellas]

I should add, I 100% think Yujiro's nuke statements are reliable, consistent and usable. The argument of "it's just because they can't drop it on him" holds no water since the statements are either direct comparisons (IE, Obama straight up saying that Yujiro is more powerful than a nuke; Trump saying that Yujiro is above any modern piece of weaponry; every single illustration of Yujiro being portrayed with thousands of missiles pointing at him) or they already start with the assumption of the government being willing to drop the nuke on him (such as this). Not to mention the fact that as seen in SoO Yujiro spends 90% of his time in the ******* desolate tundra of Africa fighting animals, they could definitely drop a nuke on him in that instance lol.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I'll get back to you on that.

Asura how many votes does this need? We have Maverick, Andy and you for sure. Isn't that more than enough? Armor I wasn't exactly sure where he stands.

 

[ByAsura]

This isn't the thread for that, and you aren't the OP, so your announcements don't mean anything. Characters that scale to on the profiles Yujiro will scale to Yujiro from this. If you think the scaling needs to be fixed, it can be fixed separately.

They never say that. What they say is that they don't want to provoke Yujiro because they don't stand a chance.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I should add, I 100% think Yujiro's nuke statements are reliable, consistent and usable. The argument of "it's just because they can't drop it on him" holds no water since the statements are either direct comparisons (IE, Obama straight up saying that Yujiro is more powerful than a nuke; Trump saying that Yujiro is above any modern piece of weaponry; every single illustration of Yujiro being portrayed with thousands of missiles pointing at him) or they already start with the assumption of the government being willing to drop the nuke on him (such as this)

Yeah no idea why we feel fine disregarding this. The only guy who even said that Yujiro MAY die to nukes didn't even know him that well and thought the Usa was just protecting him. This is proven false when Trump wanted to cut partnership with him till he met him and said nah frick it we are dead nothing can save us in our arsenal. Like just the statements alone would be enough for a likely. Let alone with a whole ass feat involving him.

 

[ByAsura]

Asura how many votes does this need? We have Maverick, Andy and you for sure. Isn't that more than enough? Armor I wasn't exactly sure where he stands.

I'm not sure.

This thread is honestly starting to become needlessly messy and overcomplicated, so I'll just wait for the new version of the calc.

 

[Passersby]

He is stated stronger than the arsenal of the army. Not the army.

and i should take that seriously because?

a statement is simply a sentence that is a claim or is tmaking a point, there are many different types of statements.

statements can describe a wide variety of aspects, be it physical or non physical, the conclusion and the validity of the statement depends on what is being discussed and the context, it also has to be analyzed in order to determine wether it's true or false , statements themselves dont change anything, they just describe the feats shown within the series,so when used by themselves dont determine if something is true or false, they only determine whether something is true or false if the statement is based on something physical that is true within the series and has evidence directly or indirectly from that physical thing.


most characters aren't all knowing about everything, even characters who are knowledgeable about a certain subject can lie, they may not know everything about that subject or can simply be misinformed, sp their statement has to be shown to be true or is possible compared to what the subject is


for example: In the manga, political leaders state that yujiro is as strong as nuclear war heads

sure he said that, but does he know what he is talking about? did he ever drop a nuke on yujiro and he managed to simply tank it? is the information provided accurate and not simply a byproduct of his fear? Does he know everything about yujiro's abilities and strenght? there are other questions to be answered as well.

even if a the statements provided aren't contradicted that doesnt automatically mean the information is right. statements can be wrong or right no matter if its contradicted or not,all the characters do within the fictional setting is provide the information/statements, its up for the us to see if what is being said is true or possible based on the feats seen in the story and then analyze the info provided based on the context.


there are also Guidebook statements, and people generally just take them at face value


however, guidebooks are just supplemental information that expands upon feats from a fictional work, If it's information is contradicted by the fictional work it's describing or isn't backed up by any evidence then its most likely false.

for example, if a guidebook describes a character's attack potency to be 5B but he consistenly shows 7C feats, then the guidebook statement will be ignored


This is why statements that are describing physical phenomenons like AP, speed etc have to be analyzed on a step by step basis. The feats are what shows the physical changes that occur and the statements are just conclusions that can be true or false, so they should not be taken as evidence for feats

already addressed, statements shouldn't be used as evidence until you prove they're reliable

 

[Twellas]

The only guy who even said that Yujiro MAY die to nukes didn't even know him

He doesn't even hint at the fact that Yujiro may die, he just says that there's no point in entertaining the idea because they couldn't possibly find a way to use it, that's it.

 

[NikHelton]

I'm not sure.

This thread is honestly starting to become needlessly messy and overcomplicated, so I'll just wait for the new version of the calc.

Yujiro hits the grass very hard

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[NikHelton]

Therefir has just recently supported 5.0

 

[ByAsura]

I meant Shmeaty's version.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

This thread is honestly starting to become needlessly messy and overcomplicated, so I'll just wait for the new version of the calc.

New version? If the mag 6 remains then the currect calc is used which is from clover dragon and that's what's used currently. No idea why a new calc was even brought up but it was by Nik in case we went for a lower magnitude to which I agree.

 

[Passersby]

I 100% think Yujiro's nuke statements are reliable,

elaborate as to why they are

The argument of "it's just because they can't drop it on him" holds no water since the statements are either direct comparisons

it makes all the statements look silly since they have no idea what they're talking about when the compare the 2

IE, Obama straight up saying that Yujiro is more powerful than a nuke; Trump saying that Yujiro is above any modern piece of weaponry; every single illustration of Yujiro being portrayed with thousands of missiles pointing at him)

also this

most characters aren't all knowing about everything, even characters who are knowledgeable about a certain subject can lie, they may not know everything about that subject or can simply be misinformed, so their statement has to be shown to be true or is possible compared to what the subject is

for example: In the manga, political leaders state that yujiro is as strong as nuclear war heads

sure he said that, but does he know what he is talking about? did he ever drop a nuke on yujiro and he managed to simply tank it? is the information provided accurate and not simply a byproduct of his fear? Does he know everything about yujiro's abilities and strenght? there are other questions to be answered as well.

even if a the statements provided aren't contradicted that doesnt automatically mean the information is right. statements can be wrong or right no matter if its contradicted or not,all the characters do within the fictional setting is provide the information/statements, its up for the us to see if what is being said is true or possible based on the feats seen in the story and then analyze the info provided based on the context.

or they already start with the assumption of the government being willing to drop the nuke on him

that just supports the the information is based on pure fear interpretation

Not to mention the fact that as seen in SoO Yujiro spends 90% of his time in the ***** desolate tundra of Africa fighting animals, they could definitely drop a nuke on him in that instance lol.

did they?

if they did, i conced the argument, yujiro is 7C