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(GRACE) Silvers Rayleigh VS Marco (One Piece) (7-0-0)

CinCameron20 said:
"while getting cut"? He got cut when he tried to use LS to get to Zoro and the others, not while he was crossing blades with Rayleigh. He made the comment because he was not expecting to fight anyone other than the Supernova who attacked the Celestial Dragons.
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Yee and he got someone who is troublesome for kizaru and was supposed to be casual until Rayleigh stepped in which he couldn't deal with casually or seriously.
CinCameron20 said:
He came with the expectation to face and capture fledglings... the Supernova were only in their first year of activity, and were easy pickings for Kizaru. Suddenly Roger's Vice Captain shows up to help them. He wasn't expecting to have to fight anyone notable.
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And while fighting Roger's Vice Captain, kizaru couldn't do anything while focusing on Rayleigh, while Rayleigh Damaged kizaru and wasn't even focusing on the fight he was in...
12.jpg
also here is Kizaru Screaming while attacking (meaning its not casual)which Rayleigh never did.
8.jpg
 
Dr.Fix said:
Was it leg or beam? I recall beam.

Kizaru was using sacred jewels, not sacred mirror.
Click to expand...
Yes, Kizaru used a beam. But before he even shot it, Rayleigh showed up and moved his leg to shoot it elsewhere.

Also I was referring to Marco's ability "Immortal Thistle" (most of the fanbase referred to it as a mirror, but I guess now it has an official name, so..)
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Yee and he got someone who is troublesome for kizaru and was supposed to be casual until Rayleigh stepped in which he couldn't deal with casually or seriously.

And while fighting Roger's Vice Captain, kizaru couldn't do anything while focusing on Rayleigh, while Rayleigh Damaged kizaru and wasn't even focusing on the fight he was in...
12.jpg
also here is Kizaru Screaming while attacking (meaning its not casual)which Rayleigh never did.
8.jpg
Click to expand...
I'm not denying that Rayleigh is troublesome for Kizaru. I'm merely comparing the threat level between Rayleigh and the pre-ts Supernova, of which Kizaru stomped 4 at once. He's obviously going to be more intimidated by someone who once held a potential billion+ bounty as opposed to a handful of 100-300 million bounties that are also novice.

Kizaru was focused on catching the SHs at first, but Rayleigh stopped him. He still only suffered a small scratch to the face despite the distraction. Kizaru didn't actually need to do anything regarding the SHs considering Sentomaru and the Pacifista seemed to have the situation handled. Even more-so once Kuma showed up.
  • "Rayleigh damaged Kizaru and wasn't even focusing on the fight" You're really trying to dismiss how Kizaru wasn't focused on the SHs while Rayleigh put all of his attention on Kizaru in that moment, aren't you?
When Rayleigh stated that he wanted to go help the others, he noted how he was getting old, not to mention we see he's starting to fatigue given the shortness of breath, and he's VERY CLEARLY on the defense in that panel. Yes, he was distracted, but you can't tell me he was making Kizaru look like a joke while focusing on the other event going on. Kizaru had the advantage.

Kizaru was not going all out... I am surprised you are referring to "Nuuu!" as a "scream". It's a battle-cry. He's initiating a fight. Rayleigh didn't make Kizaru scream at all. He literally stood there while Kizaru brought down his blade and let out a battle-cry.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Kizaru was not going all out... I am surprised you are referring to "Nuuu!" as a "scream". It's a battle-cry. He's initiating a fight. Rayleigh didn't make Kizaru scream at all. He literally stood there while Kizaru brought down his blade and let out a battle-cry.
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This is not just a battle cry…that’s him trying and not being casual…
CinCameron20 said:
not to mention we see he's starting to fatigue given the shortness of breath
Click to expand...
That’s stamina…
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
This is not just a battle cry…that’s him trying and not being casual…

That’s stamina…
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Why are you linking anime? It is not considered canon over the manga (via MANY contradictions in each and every scene... also Toei is notorious for messing up every scene in every adaptation they make due to lack of reading comprehension)... Also yes, still a battle-cry.
  • "That's him trying and not being casual" according to what exactly? Kizaru stuck to using a blade the entire time, and we don't see him straining at all during the entire fight.

So you agree the fight with Kizaru was strenuous enough for Rayleigh to drain his stamina reserves over a short period? Thanks. This proves Rayleigh not to be automatically above Kizaru.
 
Since you are being weird… I’ll let the other people believe what they believe in…
CinCameron20 said:
Why are you linking anime? It is not considered canon over the manga
Click to expand...
It’s secondary canon… manga makes a screaming text and then anime support it.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Since you are being weird… I’ll let the other people believe what they believe in…

It’s secondary canon… manga makes a screaming text and then anime support it.
Click to expand...
Or you just lack a retort.

No, we do not use the anime as any form of canon here, also it wont be used in general given, again, its inconsistency (with itself) and contradictions to the manga.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I meant as a counter. I typed response but it ac'd into retort, zzz.
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Oh... Nah... It would just go back and forth and you are twisting the words that are happening in the manga to benefit your argument... I'm not going to deal with that 🐵
 
CinCameron20 said:
We actually don't for One Piece.
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I don't think we shouldn't, considering we do that for calcs already. We use anime to clarify stuff for calcs and get timeframes, I don't see why we shouldn't use it for a questionable scene that would need more context if there isn't any direct contradiction.
 
Regarding the canon: In terms of canon material, this wiki deems the manga as the primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon on a case by case basis. In the case of anime, it contradicts statements, feats, personalities, and abilities of characters in many cases. This happens with censorship, filler content in canon material, and pacing. Since we have confirmation that Oda approves certain scenes in the anime, we've decided to take the anime as canon in the areas where it perfectly or similarly represents the manga, and the scenes not shown in the manga that are represented in the anime will be deemed as filler. It was decided in this thread.

There used to be a discussion rule on this but it has since been deleetd by someone.
 
Dr.Fix said:
Regarding the canon: In terms of canon material, this wiki deems the manga as the primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon on a case by case basis. In the case of anime, it contradicts statements, feats, personalities, and abilities of characters in many cases. This happens with censorship, filler content in canon material, and pacing. Since we have confirmation that Oda approves certain scenes in the anime, we've decided to take the anime as canon in the areas where it perfectly or similarly represents the manga, and the scenes not shown in the manga that are represented in the anime will be deemed as filler. It was decided in this thread.

There used to be a discussion rule on this but it has since been deleetd by someone.
Click to expand...
Uhm, when the hell was this changed?

Oda may approve of certain events in the anime, but the very same scenes that appear in the manga are heavily contradictive to their own canon and the manga as well.

We literally decided to NEVER use the anime since it's VERY inconsistent.
 
We did, you missed the thread. Either way there being inconsistencies doesn't mean we should dismiss EVERYTHING, I don't think. I see no real reason to dismiss some things if they are not inconsistent, and expanding on something or clearing it up isn't inconsistent.
 
The anime gets a lot of quotes wrong, adds in filler dialogue that makes no sense, makes a lot of censoring that ends up being confusing, they change character actions (funny one that was linked here was Kizaru literally standing straight up, Rayleigh somehow swings at the beam and it causes Kizaru to falter... yet the manga shows Kizaru moving forward, but Rayleigh swung, forcing the former to evade...) There's a mega-ton of ridiculously incorrect scenes in the anime that are presented extremely different from the manga.

Oh, one incorrect quote example from the anime that was changed from the manga, albeit minor, between Crocodile and Doflamingo:

Crocodile in the anime is telling Doflamingo that he should beg to be his subordinate rather than be a partner, but in the manga, he explicitly says "You don't want to team up, you want to make me your subordinate"... like IDK how they mess up entire conversations. And it gets worse the further along the anime goes.
 
None of that makes this specific instance about Kizaru actively trying against Rayleigh wrong though, which is why a case-by-case basis was decided. Pretty much any problem you just said can be applied to most anime adaptations that aren't specifically different continuities.
 
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