Government Employed Murderers. Jack the Ripper (RoR) vs Rob Lucci (One Piece)

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Government assassins who take a bit too much pleasure in their occupation.

Rob Lucci: Pre-timeskip key.

Jack The Ripper: With Volund key.

The battle takes place in London.

Ap Values:

Rob Lucci= 44.5 Megatons In base. 108.57 Megatons with Rokushiki techniques. Higher when transformed, and even higher using Rokushiki while transformed. (source here)

Jack The Ripper=467.39 Megatons.

Speed Values

Rob Lucci = Scales above 0.334313c. Higher with Soru, Far Higher In Hybrid, and even higher with Hybrid + Soru

Jack The Ripper= Scales to Hercules, who in turn scales far above Ares, who can react at 0.33c

(I'll edit the above values if they are inaccurate to the profiles)

 

[azontr]

Following

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If Jack hits Rob before he transforms or uses his 7-A stuff then he's getting one-shot so that's a pretty hefty edge he has going in, especially since he's still stronger even with all of Rob's amps.

 

[azontr]

Me checking the thread to see if anyone made arguments for Lucci so I can respond to them (I don't know anything about Lucci) only to realize it's just someone repping Jack

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

If Jack hits Rob before he transforms or uses his 7-A stuff then he's getting one-shot so that's a pretty hefty edge he has going in, especially since he's still stronger even with all of Rob's amps.

Even in base form, Rob Lucci uses his 7-A stuff pretty frequently, in character.

Tekkai is his main defensive move, and Shigan is one of his go-to offensive options. Both of which use his 7-A value.

Just wanna clarify that.

 

[azontr]

Actually, wait, do Rob's transformations scale just above his base form or do they scale above his value with techniques?

If the former, Jack has a 10x AP advantage.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Even in base form, Rob Lucci uses his 7-A stuff pretty frequently, in character.

Tekkai is his main defensive move, and Shigan is one of his go-to offensive options. Both of which use his 7-A value.

Just wanna clarify that.

Still like four times weaker than Jack so he's getting roughed up regardless.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Actually, wait, do Rob's transformations scale just above his base form or do they scale above his value with techniques?

If the former, Jack has a 10x AP advantage.

Its the latter, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Basically Base Lucci (7-B) < Base Lucci with Rokushiki (7-A) < Hybrid Lucci < Hybrid Lucci with Rokushiki.

 

[azontr]

His durability in base is seemingly only 7-A with a single technique, that being Tekkai.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Tekkai is the main defensive move of the CP9 folk. Outside of simply dodging attacks.

It's "one move" but he'd definitely use it if say...Jack tried to stab him, or did anything else he'd find threatening.

 

[azontr]

Cool. Either way Lucci has a pretty big disadvantage.

I'm going to continue waiting for Lucci arguments, cause I still don't know anything about him.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I never denied he was at a disadvantage, I’m just pointing out what’s on his profile

 

[azontr]

You don't have to say he has a disadvantage for me to point out the disadvantage. I'm not being argumentative towards you, I'm just laying out the facts, ape.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I will say that Lucci can just transform into his Hybrid form and be 7-A at all times, so Base Lucci will practically be a non factor in almost any scenario.

 

[azontr]

Yes, but that depends on if he'll go hybrid as soon as the fight starts.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If I remember correctly, this the guy I was about to see fight in the anime with his cool entrance

Why he's profile (stats and powers)... So underwhelming ...

I guess now that I think about it, the show didn't have that many abilities for the humans and stuff besides timestop with adam... It was via human skill and intelligence

 

[Kachon123]

Why wouldn't he?

 

[azontr]

I could not possibly know if he does or doesn't. That's why I asked.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Me checking the thread to see if anyone made arguments for Lucci so I can respond to them (I don't know anything about Lucci) only to realize it's just someone repping Jack

Lucci slander is my forte. Stay in your lane Aryan femboy.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

also what are the arguments for each side

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Lucci would likely transform the moment he views Jack as a threat, or is otherwise aggravated. He's only fought in base against fodder or people he viewed as below him.

It's something he'd naturally do pretty early on, I think.

 

[azontr]

Okay now we are getting somewhere.

What is Lucci's first move/technique?

Jack's first action will be to run away (silly, I know) and use hit-and-run tactics while playing mind games with Lucci, like drinking tea in the middle of the battle, for example.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Okay now we are getting somewhere.

What is Lucci's first move/technique?

Jack's first action will be to run away (silly, I know) and use hit-and-run tactics while playing mind games with Lucci, like drinking tea in the middle of the battle, for example.

Lucci tends to go for the kill quickly.

His likely first move, especially if Jack attempted to gain distance, would be to rush towards him with Soru, before stabbing him in the neck with Shigan. Soru is a brief, FTE speed amp to his base movement, while Shigan does piercing damage akin to a bullet.

(Luffy is made of rubber so it didn't pierce him, in that instance).

 

[azontr]

Jack's instincts should let him easily avoid Soru even if he can't see Lucci's movements, though if he does get nicked he'd use his body control to shift his vitals so he can avoid fatal damage, assuming he does somehow get nicked.

After realizing Lucci has a free amp to close distance Jack will probably attempt a similar instant-kill strategy rather than trying his Heracles strategy due to lacking a strict speed advantage, of which he has basically infinite weapon options since he can turn anything he can get his hands on into a weapon 4x stronger than Lucci.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Jack's instincts should let him easily avoid Soru even if he can't see Lucci's movements, though if he does get nicked he'd use his body control to shift his vitals so he can avoid fatal damage, assuming he does somehow get nicked.

After realizing Lucci has a free amp to close distance Jack will probably attempt a similar instant-kill strategy rather than trying his Heracles strategy due to lacking a strict speed advantage, of which he has basically infinite weapon options since he can turn anything he can get his hands on into a weapon 4x stronger than Lucci.

But he won't be fast enough, just because his instincts alert him that he's about to come... Doesn't mean he can do anything against it unless he does/know what will exactly happen beforehand but even then Soru + Hybrid makes him 2x blitz levels faster so at that point even having full out precog is useless as shown with observation haki

Idk why Midas matched up Lucci against someone with no speed amps... I personally can't see a way for jack to anything against that

 

[azontr]

he won't be fast enough, just because his instincts alert him that he's about to come...

His instincts don't just alert him of danger, they actually let him dodge attacks and even fight against people who can blitz him from several meters away as if they were on equal grounds. He'll be fine.

Not to mention he can sense (as in he can literally see it) killing intent, so he'd just get out of the way of Rob's attack an instant before he throws it, making speed irrelevant.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

His instincts don't just alert him of danger, they actually let him dodge attacks and even fight against people who can blitz him from several meters away as if they were on equal grounds. He'll be fine.

Not to mention he can sense (as in he can literally see it) killing intent, so he'd just get out of the way of Rob's attack an instant before he throws it, making speed irrelevant.

As I said... No, hybrid speed is comparable to gear 2nd with a blitz speed that completely blitzes your movement speed to the point your just frozen in their view which is why even precog won't help

And this is only with his hybrid speed Amp

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Leaning towards Lucci but I want to see more arguments for Jack

 

[azontr]

As I said... No, hybrid speed is comparable to gear 2nd with a blitz speed that completely blitzes your movement speed to the point your just frozen in their view which is why even precog won't help

And this is only with his hybrid speed Amp

Nowhere in any of those scans does it say Luffy is seeing his opponent as frozen. She can evidently see his attacks, he's just faster than her reactions.

Not to mention, I didn't say Jack would try and react to his attack in motion, I said he'd be out of the way a moment before he throws it, aka he's already out of the way of the attack's course so he doesn't need to dodge it with his speed.

I also read the chapter where he "blitzes" Lucci and nothing at all akin to "seeing his opponent as frozen" happens.

Also, maybe it's in a different chapter, but Luffy literally outspeeds Hybrid Lucci, so where is Hybrid Lucci's amp comparable to Gear 2?

 

[Kachon123]

Jack's instincts should let him easily avoid Soru even if he can't see Lucci's movements, though if he does get nicked he'd use his body control to shift his vitals so he can avoid fatal damage, assuming he does somehow get nicked.

I really don't know about Jack's instincts allowing him to avoid a Soru + Shigan. Soru is a massive speed amp. So big that even Luffy could get blitzed despite their bases being relative. This is the same Luffy whose reactions have some pretty gnarly feats.

As for Jack shifting his vitals, that's pretty much a lite version of CP9's Kami-e technique. Lucci at this point would not only be over two levels of blitzes above Jack due to Hybrid + Soru on top of the speed amp Shigan gives, but a Zoro who is less experienced in facing Rokushiki techniques was able to anticipate Kaku's Kami-e and adjust his attack accordingly. Now imagine a Lucci who also has Kenbun on top of this which would allow him to know Jack movements right before he does them.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Nowhere in any of those scans does it say Luffy is seeing his opponent as frozen. She can evidently see his attacks, he's just faster than her reactions.

She can read him via obs haki as stated... At the bottom panel she's looking directly at him, luffy moves behind her and she hasn't moved an inch to turn her head behind her

That's literally luffy seeing her as frozen.

Also, maybe it's in a different chapter, but Luffy literally outspeeds Hybrid Lucci, so where is Hybrid Lucci's amp comparable to Gear 2?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Now imagine a Lucci who also has Kenbun on top of this which would allow him to know Jack movements right before he does them.

When was he said to have Kenbun pre ts?

 

[azontr]

reactions have some pretty gnarly feats.

First one is nothing special because there's literally a sound (sfx) to alert Luffy of the attack.

The 2nd one has nothing to do with avoiding attacks faster than you with speed— it's an entirely different form of instinct which isn't useful against Jack because he cannot clone himself. (The opponent isn't Luffy but I'm sure you understand my point, beating instinct like this has no bearing on the fight)

The 3rd one is cool ig but it's not "gnarly", it just let's him know not to make a certain move or else he'll face consequences.

4th one is literally nothing at all. Luffy just reactions to an attack. This is supposed to be gnarly???

lite version of CP9's Kami-e technique

Okay. Has Lucci ever circumvented Kami-e? Can you show me him utilizing Kami-e in a manner that let's him do that? Okay, he has a technique that can do something similar to what Jack can do, but that doesn't let him hit an artery if Jack just moves it to the side.

Lucci not at this point would be over two levels of blitzes above Jack due to Hybrid + Soru on top of the speed amp Shigan gives

Soru is a brief amp that he has to use, he won't be using it for every single step he takes. Not to mention Jack would just have traps set up across the environment for Lucci to run into if he uses Soru to close the distance. Hybrid on its own is something Jack can deal with, though I'm questioning the legitimacy of Hybrid being an actual blitz amp based purely on the profile, but Lucci's profile seems bad, so feel free to provide evidence.

a Zoro who is less experienced in facing Rokushiki techniques was able to anticipate Kaku's Kami-e and adjust his attack accordingly.

So... he anticipated him moving his body to the side. Cool, but not impressive. Kami-e doesn't give a resistance to analytical prediction or something, so it's not like you'd need hyper skill to counter it unless you can show me that.

Now imagine a Lucci who also has Kenbun on top of this which would allow him to know Jack movements right before he does them.

Kenbun is an asset but like, all the stuff you've shown me is simply not very impressive on its own, meaning they don't really stack onto the precog as well as you think. Kenbun and Jack's emotion seeing should balance out, though not taking into account the several traps Jack sets up in tandem with his physical combat that even God's who can decipher the events happening during time stop with sheer smarts can't fully decipher.

She can read him via obs haki as stated... At the bottom panel she's looking directly at him, luffy moves behind her and she hasn't moved an inch to turn her head behind her

That's literally luffy seeing her as frozen.

Again, this isn't seeing someone is frozen, it's just moving faster than they can see/react. It's the same sh*t as Soru. If she couldn't react to Luffy's speed with her precog that's simply the inability of her precog to react to Luffy's speed, lol.

 

[Kachon123]

Quick question, can Jack survive a Rokougan? It's a shockwave that is noted to have durability negating properties far superior to the "Shockwave Dials" from Skypiea. Whether he was referring Reject Dials or the standard Impact Dials is ambiguous in the Raws, however even the Impact Dials deal enough damage to instantly oneshot the average person.

When was he said to have Kenbun pre ts?

Vivre card.

 

[azontr]

Quick question, can Jack survive a Rokougan? It's a shockwave that is noted to have durability negating properties far superior to the "Shockwave Dials" from Skypiea. Whether he was referring Reject Dials or the standard Impact Dials is ambiguous in the Raws, however even the Impact Dials deal enough damage to instantly oneshot the average person.

Whose the "average person", here? If it's referring to like, normal Randoms with no feats or tiering, I wouldn't consider that anything worthwhile and would just say Jack can tank Rokugan because he's over 4 times stronger, which should apply to his insides.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Again, this isn't seeing someone is frozen, it's just moving faster than they can see/react. It's the same sh*t as Soru. If she couldn't react to Luffy's speed with her precog that's simply the inability of her precog to react to Luffy's speed, lol.

she is reacting... As literally stated by her being able to read his every move but simply can't keep up, even when she's able to react to his movements, her body can't move fast enough to even move an inch as shown in the panel and in the anime

 

[azontr]

she is reacting... As literally stated by her being able to read his every move but simply can't keep up, even when she's able to react to his movements, her body can't move fast enough to even move an inch as shown in the panel and in the anime

What exactly does proving she can react do to help your argument? I don't understand what "she reacted" or "she didn't react" does in either of our favor, as either way, her inability to respond to Luffy's movements with precog is a fault of her precognition.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What exactly does proving she can react do to help your argument? I don't understand what "she reacted" or "she didn't react" does in either of our favor, as either way, her inability to respond to Luffy's movements with precog is a fault of her precognition.

no it's not... What? Her precog is literally working..? The only way it doesn't work is by completely blitzing their movement speed to where they can't do anything even if they know the future and is reacting

Which hybrid Lucci can do