Gotta fix these dang kids (Naruto Revisions Part 2: Part I)

[The_Alxhemist]

Well, as crazy as this sounds, a major Naruto revision was concluded within 100 replies lol.

Now it feels like a major Naruto revision

 

[LordTracer]

but he shouldn't have been holding back anymore than he was with Kakashi, or someone would've noticed the massive discrepancy

I see no reason why someone would’ve pointed it out, why would the first reaction to Kurenai getting kicked be “huh, he didn’t kick her as hard as he hit Kakashi”?

What do you think of the Kushina stuff?

You do realize Kushina has her tier with the chains because she actually restrained Kurama, right. It’s not because she was “said” to be able to do it.

Besides, this is contradicted by Kimimaro's own statement, who knows Lee's power, having felt it on his own body.

Kimimaro didn’t state anything about Lee’s power, all he said was that he’s not as easy as Naruto, which is extremely vague and nowhere near enough to give him such a huge upgrade.

An 8-B can't do that to a High 7-C, even if he was way faster, his body literally would've just bounced off of Kimimaro.

Actually, if Lee’s moving so fast that Kimimaro can’t react… he could knock him around. Which is what Kimimaro himself says. Also you’re heavily overstating what Lee was doing. He was not knocking Kimimaro around like a ragdoll, and Kimimaro blatantly says that he’s getting knocked around because Lee is too fast, too unpredictable and he can’t read his moves.

Kimimaro does not once mention his strength as the reason why he’s struggling, and coupled with Tsunade’s statements that even with a successful surgery, Lee wouldn’t be in any condition to operate as a shinobi, as well as Lee himself saying he couldn’t go further than the First Gate due to still being in recovery (which blatantly shows that he’s weaker than he was in the Chūnin Exams if he can’t handle any more strain than that), plus Gaara saying that Lee’s slower than he was in the Chūnin Exams, and Lee getting drained just by using the First Gate AND Gaara noticing that Lee is “in no shape to fight”, it’s clear that Lee is weaker and should not scale to Kimimaro in any way, shape or form.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Now it feels like a major Naruto revision

Aw come on, this time I only mentioned 5 characters.

I see no reason why someone would’ve pointed it out, why would the first reaction to Kurenai getting kicked be “huh, he didn’t kick her as hard as he hit Kakashi”?

You do realize Kushina has her tier with the chains because she actually restrained Kurama, right. It’s not because she was “said” to be able to do it.

Kimimaro didn’t state anything about Lee’s power, all he said was that he’s not as easy as Naruto, which is extremely vague and nowhere near enough to give him such a huge upgrade.

Actually, if Lee’s moving so fast that Kimimaro can’t react… he could knock him around. Which is what Kimimaro himself says. Also you’re heavily overstating what Lee was doing. He was not knocking Kimimaro around like a ragdoll, and Kimimaro blatantly says that he’s getting knocked around because Lee is too fast, too unpredictable and he can’t read his moves.

Kimimaro does not once mention his strength as the reason why he’s struggling, and coupled with Tsunade’s statements that even with a successful surgery, Lee wouldn’t be in any condition to operate as a shinobi, as well as Lee himself saying he couldn’t go further than the First Gate due to still being in recovery (which blatantly shows that he’s weaker than he was in the Chūnin Exams if he can’t handle any more strain than that), plus Gaara saying that Lee’s slower than he was in the Chūnin Exams, and Lee getting drained just by using the First Gate AND Gaara noticing that Lee is “in no shape to fight”, it’s clear that Lee is weaker and should not scale to Kimimaro in any way, shape or form.

It would indeed be pretty weird to see an average Jonin level ninja survive a kick from someone who single handedly wiped out the strongest clan in Konoha, unless Kurenai was actually strong and Asuma knew it.

Talking about the durability section with her barrier. "Durability: Unknown, possibly Town level (Comparable to her striking strength). Large Island level+ with barriers (Even while on the brink of death, she was able to erect a barrier that could contain Kurama[4])"

He said that RIGHT after he was kicked away from Naruto. There's no other context, so it's gotta be referring to physicals.

Kimimaro didn't say "HIs hits are weak but he's so fast he can knock me around anyways." He said "He's too hard to predict...Moreover, too fast!" Which means Lee's unpredictability is the reason for Kimimaro not being able to block, it's not the reason for Lee being able to affect Kimimaro. It's been shown that with a large durability discrepancy, you literally aren't moved by your opponent.

That was Tsunade's theory prior to her improving the surgery process and it's obviously untrue, given his ability to fight with at least his agility intact. His performance was definitely "in condition to perform" a mission as a shinobi, regardless of whether it was worse or not. She said in that same chapter that Lee would be "incapacitated" for a long time, which is clearly untrue.

He said he shouldn't go too crazy, which is because doing that would revert his condition as he'd just healed, it doesn't confirm he's weaker. The explanation to solve this is just that the amp Lee got from fighting and recovering is bigger than the debuff from not being fully healed. 10+30-5 is higher than 10. Him not being able to handle more doesn't confirm he's weaker, it means his stamina is lower.

Already talked about the Gaara example. The other Gaara statement you gave was, again, after Lee used the 1st Gate. He was in just as bad a condition against Gaara after using the 1st Gate when he was supposedly stronger.

And if Lee was weakened, him even just being faster than KM0 Naruto is still contradictory. As SRA Weighted/Weightless Lee>SRA KM0 Naruto>CE KM0 Naruto~>CE Neji>Weightless CE Lee in combat speed. If Kimimaro's statement about Lee being more difficult isn't referring to AP, it has to mean speed as that's the only other thing Lee showed to Kimimaro at that point.

Besides, even if you were right about Lee being weaker due to surgery, him being drunk is clearly shown to amp him, so Drunk Lee>CE Lee>SRA Lee can still work.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

uh...

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Poor kids. No one really wants to revise them

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Poor kids. No one really wants to revise them

 

[BlastX]

These kids already been revised, this thread has been reopened for just two or three characters.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

These kids already been revised, this thread has been reopened for just two or three characters.

That's just how GokuSparkle operates, he likes to make a ruckus after CRTs are over

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That's just how GokuSparkle operates, he likes to make a ruckus after CRTs are over

Nah, not particularly. I just literally had no idea this thread was made. And in the case of the Hiruzen and tier 7 revisions, those consist of a lot of things that I was arguing against in the actual CRTs, but they got swept aside and the thread became just about Minato and Obito pretty much for some reason.

 

[Antvasima]

@LordTracer @Shadowbokunohero @UchihaSlayer96 @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @DemonGodMitchAubin @Damage3245

What do you think about GokuSparkle's new suggestions here?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not really sure anything new needs doing at the moment.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@LordTracer @Shadowbokunohero @UchihaSlayer96 @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @DemonGodMitchAubin @Damage3245

What do you think about GokuSparkle's new suggestions here?

I shall go over it tonight.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[LordTracer]

@LordTracer @Shadowbokunohero @UchihaSlayer96 @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @DemonGodMitchAubin @Damage3245

What do you think about GokuSparkle's new suggestions here?

I’m still in disagreement with them.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

for some reason.

- Said the reason.

Kurenai's durability section should include the feat of tanking a casual kick from Itachi.

You can argue he was holding back since he wasn't trying to kill her, but he shouldn't have been holding back anymore than he was with Kakashi, or someone would've noticed the massive discrepancy. I'd say her durability is At least 7-C, likely 7-B.

Okay, so first off, 7-B's just not a thing anymore. This applies for everything below as well, obviously.
Secondly, I find this extremely amusing.

Besides, what durability antifeats does Kurenai have to suggest her dura exclusively doesn't scale that high?

For a guy who's always on about the importance of narrative implications and portrayal, and occasionally criticizes us for ignoring it, I find it very surprising that you of all people would pull this argument, but whatever.
Anyway, let's get down to brass tacks, shall we?
As you already mentioned, Itachi was indeed holding back here. This isn't just conjecture based on his loyalty to Konoha and his pacifism (although these are valid reasons in themselves), it's actually confirmed in the canon material itself.
The second DB's entry for Itachi states this:

Although it seems like he does not want to fight, behind his words is absolute confidence.

The man himself all but confirms it when he says this in the manga.
Then Kakashi once again reaffirms the idea that Itachi's not going all out against them, or even close to it. It should also be kept in mind that the Itachi that Kakashi speaks of in this scan is 13 y/o Anbu Itachi, since that's the only one he actually knows of from when they served together. I don't think I need to point out why current Itachi would be even stronger than that.
So in the face of overwhelming evidence that Itachi's holding back, there is actually no reason for Kurenai to scale to him at all, not fully, not partially, nothing.
To add insult to injury for Kurenai, she's been confirmed to be inferior to Kakashi by virtue of him being the strongest Konoha Jonin in Part 1. So unless kakashi also scales, Kurenai certainly does not. Except, Kakashi also does not scale as we saw him struggle against a 30% clone of SICK Part II Itachi, sooooooooooooooooooooooooo yeah. The case for Kurenai even partially scaling is, in my humble opinion, extremely flimsy. It does not make any level of sense for a Shinobi who'd literally just attained the position of Jonin to even partially scale to someone who's more than likely above Sannin level.

Kushina's chains were said to be able to hold Kurama, which is already accepted as High 6-C+, but this could include Kurama's stronger Bijuudamas which are Low 6-B. At least High 6-C+ seems better since it's unknown whether this was taken into account in Hiruzen's assessment. I suppose Hiruzen doesn't necessarily know Kurama's limits so maybe he doesn't even know what a Bijuudama Flash is. But that's exactly why it's an at least, and not a solid possibly Low 6-B.

I'm not sure what a Bijuudama Flash is, but it doesn't sound a whole lot like a fully charged Bijuudama, which is the only thing in Kurama's arsenal that's above High 6-C+. And yes, there is no evidence that Kushina's barrier can withstand that, so I'm not sure that this suggestion is necessary tbh.

Kimimaro was stated to be able to stop Jugo's urges, who's 7-B.

Not for long. Like I said, 7-B just isn't a thing anymore I'm afraid.

Yet CS2 Kimimaro is currently rated as Low 7-B. I'm not sure what form of Kimimaro this should be applied to, but he's definitely 7-B in CS2 at least. This would make Base Kimimaro at least High 7-C+ (933 kilotons). If you say it shows Child Jugo so he's not as strong, there was a later image of Adult Jugo when Kimimaro was around.

I'm fine with Kimimaro being on Juugo's level, but the thing is......this would apply only to a healthy Kimimaro, who's far above the sick, dying, version that we see in Part I. And tbh, Kimimaro will likely be rated above Juugo when the new values are applied anyway, so this whole thing might become kinda moot very soon.

As for SRA Lee, I'll leave debating that to Tracer, as he worked on Lee more than me, and I think he's more competent with it than myself. However, I will say that it's extremely suspect to say that Lee became literally thousands of times stronger after coming out of a surgery.

 

[Antvasima]

So have GokuSparkle's suggestions been rejected then?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So have GokuSparkle's suggestions been rejected then?

The OP (LordTracer)A, Verse Supporter (UchihaSlayer), And A Knowledgeable Staff Member (Damage) seem to reject GokuSparkle's suggestions.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It is probably best if I close this thread again then.