Goku and Vegeta fight a 10-B Human

[That_moron2]

It is not NLF. If you can resist having your soul completely destroyed, then you would obviously resist having it damaged by a spear.

This is like saying resisting EE gives you immortality and invulnerability btw

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is like saying resisting EE gives you immortality and invulnerability btw

I mentioned destruction, not merely erasure specifically.

 

[That_moron2]

I mentioned destruction, not merely erasure specifically.

Semantics. The overall message is the same

 

[Omegabronic]

It is not NLF. If you can resist having your soul completely destroyed, then you would obviously resist having it damaged by a spear.

Does me resisting EE or Matter manip on an atomic level make me "resist" getting punched in the face and splatted by a 60000000000x times AP difference?

You are comparing Apples to Oranges, there is no "better" here, they are just different in function

Existence Erasure is directly pertained to destruction in the case with Dragon Ball;

EE is destruction is general, so no, it is "in the case of DB", it is in EVERY case as destroying is literally what EE does

arguing that one can resist getting their body utterly destroyed, but can get killed by a stab simply because they weren't shown to be able to survive a stab, is incoherent.

no, it is basic logic, EE is not equivalent to being stabbed, so resist EEZ is completely worthless against a Stab that is much higher in AP than you

Though, discussing about this shit is irrelevant since Uta's soulhax doesn't seem to be damage based.

You didn't make that dinstinction earlier

Being destruction based is irrelevant, the type of destruction is what matters

So if Uta has Soul Destruction, it would work, IF it isn't Soul Erasure, Soul EE is all Goku resists for Soul destruction currently after all, not any other type of soul destruction stuff

 

[GarrixianXD]

Does me resisting EE or Matter manip on an atomic level make me "resist" getting punched in the face and splatted by a 60000000000x times AP difference?

You are comparing Apples to Oranges, there is no "better" here, they are just different in function

You're comparing apple to oranges. Soul stabbing and complete soul destruction are all soulhax variants; being able to resist complete soul destruction would logically make you resistant to your soul getting stabbed, because both variants all revolve around soul damage. AP is obviously different since it isn't a hax.

EE is destruction is general, so no, it is "in the case of DB", it is in EVERY case as destroying is literally what EE does

I'm pretty sure it isn't destruction in-general, which is why EE is listed as a hax ability that needs a UES to scale to physical statistics in the first place. Though, I do agree it is something that causes destruction in the Dragon Ball franchise which I did say.

no, it is basic logic, EE is not equivalent to being stabbed, so resist EEZ is completely worthless against a Stab that is much higher in AP than you

You didn't make that dinstinction earlier

Being destruction based is irrelevant, the type of destruction is what matters

So if Uta has Soul Destruction, it would work, IF it isn't Soul Erasure, Soul EE is all Goku resists for Soul destruction currently after all, not any other type of soul destruction stuff

I disagree. Both variants and techniques revolve around the concept of raw damage. Also, I literally said that it would be a different case if Uta's soul hax was some type of status effect inducement such as inducing it to sleep.

 

[That_moron2]

I disagree. Both variants and techniques revolve around the concept of raw damage. Also, I literally said that it would be a different case if Uta's soul hax was some type of status effect inducement such as inducing it to sleep.

It is status effect inducement

 

[Omegabronic]

You're comparing apple to oranges. Soul stabbing and complete soul destruction are all soulhax variants

which doesn't matter at all, as that is EXACTLY my point "they are both soul manip" cool cool, how does resisting Erasure make you resist someone pulling it apart with TK for example? How is EE comparable to someone eating a digesting a it for example?

Them being the same type of hax doesn't matter, that is exctly the point, a hax can be done is several specific ways, resisting memory wipe doesn't give you mind control resistance even tho both are mind manip, that isn't, never was and never will be how this works, one scales to what they have been shown to do with a hax, the exact same applies to one's resistances

; being able to resist complete soul destruction would logically make you resistant to your soul getting stabbed, because both variants all revolve around soul damage. AP is obviously different since it isn't a hax.

Nope, since the method of stabbing is the same in both, nothing changes, a stab doesn't erase the soul in this scenario, so it isn'r comparable, ripping a soul apart with one's bare hands also isn't erasure, eating a soul also isn't erasure

I'm pretty sure it isn't destruction in-general, which is why EE is listed as a hax ability that needs a UES to scale to physical statistics in the first place.

Non-Sequitur, it not scalling to physicals means literally nothing

it is still objectively desteuction, this isn't up to debate, it is destruction and the only way one can say it isn't is by being pedandic or using semantics

Though, I do agree it is something that causes destruction in the Dragon Ball franchise which I did say.

I never said this for you to agree with. It is destruction in ALL VERSES, that is literally what erasing is to begin with

I disagree. Both variants and techniques revolve around the concept of raw damage.

no they aren't, EE doesn't damage the same way a punch damages, nor does it in the same way as a soul being split, or broke apart by deconstruction

You are simply wrong here

Also, I literally said that it would be a different case if Uta's soul hax was some type of status effect inducement such as inducing it to sleep.

No, you didn't, you specified nothing and was on general "interaction" of any kind

I'm pretty sure it still applies; Soul Manipulation defines one's ability to resist their souls being lethally interacted; Goku and Vegeta can resist their souls being destroyed, meaning interaction with their souls won't do much. Though, if this is some kind of Status Effect Inducement then is a different story, but if it's correlated to raw soul damage/interaction then I see no reason why Goku and Vegeta won't resist their "their souls getting captured".

You didn't specified, you said any type of soul interaction, ANY, i don't know why you are changing your argument all of a sudden

Status inducement =/= soul manip, you simply said that another hax would work since Goku and Vegeta do not resist it. That's all, nothing about "other type of Soul manip", cause you talked about Soul Manip in general being resisted

 

[GarrixianXD]

Dawg, I do not need you to twist and misinterpret my arguments. I know what I'm saying; sure, could've been more clear but I obviously know my own stance. And like I said already, discussing that shit is irrelevant now; I already conceded that Goku and Vegeta might not resist Uta's hax because of sleep manipulation and the different effects of her soulhax. End of the story.

 

[BoastJr]

How instantaneous is the sleep Hax ?

If Goku and Vegeta needs less then a second to fall asleep they can still fire a stray ki blast at her

This was also done against Hit when goku have his heart punched through

 

[That_moron2]

How instantaneous is the sleep Hax ?

Pretty much instant. Its not gradual or anything

 

[That_moron2]

Bump

 

[Bernkastelll]

I'm pretty sure it still applies; Soul Manipulation defines one's ability to resist their souls being lethally interacted; Goku and Vegeta can resist their souls being destroyed, meaning interaction with their souls won't do much.

this is like saying someone who can tank some physical punches can survive a biological manip hax.

Resisting Soul Erasure doesnt means that you can resist your soul being manipulated in different ways, just like resisting body erasure (or as I said, some punches) doesnt means you can resist biological hax, transmutation and so on

 

[Kidkinsey]

Imagine if when goku is sleep in ultra instinct she just legit CANT touch him. Anyways what would happen if goku and vegeta find out they are trapped in a alternate universe and they destroy it

 

[That_moron2]

Imagine if when goku is sleep in ultra instinct she just legit CANT touch him.

She's not gonna kill him irl dawg. Also he doesn't go to UI when sleeping.

Anyways what would happen if goku and vegeta find out they are trapped in a alternate universe and they destroy it

They aren't finding out. She isn't telling them and if they do figure it out they get transfigured into teddy bears

 

[Kidkinsey]

She's not gonna kill him irl dawg. Also he doesn't go to UI when sleeping.

They aren't finding out. She isn't telling them and if they do figure it out they get transfigured into teddy bears

He's not starting in UI?

I mean they didn't tell law and blueno and they still eventually found out lol
They have power null so idk about them getting turnt into teddy bears and tbh they still might be able to fight (like vegito did as a candy ball)

 

[Arkansalter2]

This Human has to have beyond busted hax to even win against Goku and Vegeta.
But someone explain what they are?

 

[That_moron2]

He's not starting in UI?

Nope. Read the OP

I mean they didn't tell law and blueno and they still eventually found out lol

Law and Blueno know about DFs, Goku and Vegeta do not.

They have power null so idk about them getting turnt into teddy bears and tbh they still might be able to fight (like vegito did as a candy ball)

They do?

 

[That_moron2]

But someone explain what they are?

Read the profile?

 

[Arkansalter2]

So basically beyond stupid sleep hax just by singing. Not sure if Gogeta can get around the mental BFR.
10-B girl FRA.

 

[That_moron2]

Anyone else have any interest in voting?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Anyone else have any interest in voting?

i think Uta would win more often, mainly because of how Goku and Vegeta act in character so that's my vote, i'm going with Uta

 

[That_moron2]

i think Uta would win more often, mainly because of how Goku and Vegeta act in character so that's my vote, i'm going with Uta

Counted

 

[CosmoDark38]

Wasn't fighting in your sleep one of the main things that made Ultra Instinct impressive? Like they had a whole training session fighting sleeping beerus.

 

[That_moron2]

Wasn't fighting in your sleep one of the main things that made Ultra Instinct impressive? Like they had a whole training session fighting sleeping beerus.

She isn't killing his irl body dawg.

 

[CosmoDark38]

She isn't killing his irl body dawg.

Im saying i dont get how that would stop him from just launching a kiai blast to knock her out even in the case of the attack connecting.

 

[That_moron2]

Im saying i dont get how that would stop him from just launching a kiai blast to knock her out even in the case of tge attack connecting.

Maybe the fact he's not a killing machine while he's asleep?

 

[CosmoDark38]

Maybe the fact he's not a killing machine while he's asleep?

But she's literally putting him in danger, is the primary argument that she'd put them to sleep and then immediately fick off without ever interacting with them at all?

 

[That_moron2]

But she's literally putting him in danger,

She is putting his soul in danger, not his physical body. Also she controls his physical body while he's asleep. So she literally could just make him kill himself

is the primary argument that she'd put them to sleep and then immediately fick off without ever interacting with them at all?

Nope. Read the profile and see the amount of bullshit that she can pull on him after she puts him to sleep

 

[CosmoDark38]

She is putting his soul in danger, not his physical body. Also she controls his physical body while he's asleep. So she literally could just make him kill himself

Nope. Read the profile and see the amount of bullshit that she can pull on him after she puts him to sleep

I did read the profile, i watched the movie too, im saying it wouldn't really matter that much given he can still fight while unconscious and should have control over his entire body down to the last cell with ultra instinct. This isn't even factoring that scenarios like uta world are literally how they train half the time.

 

[That_moron2]

im saying it wouldn't really matter that much given he can still fight while unconscious and should have control over his entire body down to the last cell with ultra instinct.

He doesn't resist bodily puppetry with UI so this is irrelevant. Her control overrides his.

This isn't even factoring that scenarios like uta world are literally how they train half the time.

They train by getting deconstructed??

 

[CosmoDark38]

He doesn't resist bodily puppetry with UI so this is irrelevant. Her control overrides his.

They train by getting deconstructed??

They train via image training. Creating worlds similar to uta world within themselves and carrying over wounds into the physical world.
Given she actively needs to get them to attack, or at least doesn't give them orders all the time this hardly even matters. Especially given in character she has no reason to insta gib them immediately since her whole goal was to convince people to stay in uta world and she only started killing them when they figured out what that entailed. Additionally literally nothing stops goku from instant transmissioning out the instant he figures out what it is, which given his ki sensing and experience in similar scenarios, might be immediately.

 

[That_moron2]

Creating worlds similar to uta world within themselves

They aren't literally creating worlds. They are imagining things. W false equivalency though.

carrying over wounds into the physical world.

No they don't.

Given she actively needs to get them to attack, or at least doesn't give them orders all the time this hardly even matters.

So? Her goal is to incap them here. If she needs to then she will in fact give them orders. She won't start with that but if they start to figure things out then she will incap them by some means. If that's getting them to break their backs or something then so be it.

Additionally literally nothing stops goku from instant transmissioning out the instant he figures out what it is

Except he's in a dream. He instant transmissions out and there are two Gokus now??? Also other dimension travelers such as Blueno couldn't get out that way, so I don't see how Goku could.

ki sensing

What is there to sense? Everyone in the area is in there with him.

experience in similar scenarios, might be immediately.

Literally never has experienced a similar scenario

 

[CosmoDark38]

They aren't literally creating worlds. They are imagining things. W false equivalency though.

No they don't.

So? Her goal is to incap them here. If she needs to then she will in fact give them orders. She won't start with that but if they start to figure things out then she will incap them by some means. If that's getting them to break their backs or something then so be it.

Except he's in a dream. He instant transmissions out and there are two Gokus now??? Also other dimension travelers such as Blueno couldn't get out that way, so I don't see how Goku could.

What is there to sense? Everyone in the area is in there with him.

Literally never has experienced a similar

They quite literally do experience the wounds in their image training sessions unless you think trunks telekinetically cut his own lip and they've been schizophrenic since namek. Additionally i don't see anything on Blueno's profile having inter dimensional range so him failing us unfortunately a skill issue on his part. Due to this theres nothing stopping him from teleporting back into his body and plugging his ears (or doing quite literally anything at all, assuming their first option wasnt knocking them out with a kiai blast.)

 

[That_moron2]

They quite literally do experience the wounds in their image training sessions unless you think trunks telekinetically cut his own lip and they've been schizophrenic since namek.

1. He was biting down so hard he bleed, its not a cut
2. He got his throat slit or something along those lines in the image training, not to mention other injuries in that same video along with the fact that even if we operate under the assumption that bleeding lip is from the image training its contradicted so many times it can be dismissed.

Additionally i don't see anything on Blueno's profile having inter dimensional range so him failing us unfortunately a skill issue on his part.

It is on the profile and that is supported in databooks

 

[CosmoDark38]

1. He was biting down so hard he bleed, its not a cut
2. He got his throat slit or something along those lines in the image training, not to mention other injuries in that same video along with the fact that even if we operate under the assumption that bleeding lip is from the image training its contradicted so many times it can be dismissed.

It is on the profile and that is supported in databooks

1. We literally see him troughout the video hes bleeding from the side of his lip near the cheek and he was never biting at all.
2. Name one contradiction because the whole point of image traing since namek is that its as exhausting as doing the real thing.

3. Did Blueno use it and have it fail, did he just not use it at all? Cause unless he explicitly tried before being weakened i dont see how that would matter.

 

[That_moron2]

We literally see him troughout the video hes bleeding from the side of his lip

No blood

hes bleeding from the side of his lip near the cheek

And yet the wound is gone the next time we see him

he was never biting at all.

If he was we couldn't see it.

Name one contradiction because the whole point of image traing since namek is that its as exhausting as doing the real thing.

Maybe the fact that outside of that cut on his lip we never see anyone have a wound from it ever? And being exhausting and doing damage are two different things.

3. Did Blueno use it and have it fail, did he just not use it at all?

We see him use it several times. If he could use it to get out then he would unless he's just an idiot.

 

[CosmoDark38]

No blood
The image training cuts before he envisions the aftermath of the attack.

And yet the wound is gone the next time we see him literal animation mistake

If he was we couldn't see it.

Maybe the fact that outside of that cut on his lip we never see anyone have a wound from it ever? And being exhausting and doing damage are two different things.

We see goku and gohan get visibly bruised as a result of their image training. Additionally no other instance of image training have them envision anything really damaging besides trunk's scene.

We see him use it several times. If he could use it to get out then he would unless he's just an idiot.

Has he ever used it to just teleport to a place completely disconnected from where he put his doors? Because again given he got weakened its entirely possible the technique just can't do that in general.

 

[Kachon123]

I did read the profile, i watched the movie too, im saying it wouldn't really matter that much given he can still fight while unconscious and should have control over his entire body down to the last cell with ultra instinct. This isn't even factoring that scenarios like uta world are literally how they train half the time.

As do Haki users with Kenbunshoku Haki and yet Uta's abilities worked. 90% of the hax listed on her page are very layered.

 

[Kachon123]

I guess I'll vote Uta

 

[Epiccheev]

I can't even imagine Goku losing...
That being said, Uta FRA