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Gohan upgrade

Shouldn't SSJ Goku be universe if not at least multi galaxy level? Since after the SSG transformation his SSJ form matched if not surpassed it's power back in the fight with Beerus. And Goku is way stronger now.
 
Base Goku in Saipan Beyond God is universal, as it surpasses his God form. SSJ beyond for is an upgrade to it. The big question here is if Goku was holding back.
 
Do we use SSJ mults here? If so base Goku would be at least 1/50th universal, still multi-galaxy, and he wouldn't go SSJ if he weren't at least stronger than his base. So even if he held back, and we don't know if he did, Gohan would be at least multi-galaxy as well.
 
Leogian4511 said:
Do we use SSJ mults here? If so base Goku would be at least 1/50th universal, still multi-galaxy, and he wouldn't go SSJ if he weren't at least stronger than his base. So even if he held back, and we don't know if he did, Gohan would be at least multi-galaxy as well.
Click to expand...
I agree with you goku in base form should be at least multi galaxy and since nothing proves goku was holding back gohan should be also on this level
 
I will add this little thing to Gohan profile, we also have decided to not upgrade several characters to 3-B/3-A for several reasons and it will not be accepted.
 
I am fine with mentioning in Gohan's profile that he matched SS2 Goku.
 
I checked earlier, and it seems like it is already mentioned.
 
Why Gohan have two Keys for DBS?

He just trained for like a day or two, and after that he just lstopped training until the fight with watagash, so Gohan should be straight 4-B for DBS


Also, Piccolo is 4-B in DBS, so Tagoma, Ginyu and Frieza should be 4-B as well.
 
That does not make sense. Gohan (Who was noted by Vegeta in the Buu Saga to be weaker because he stopped training) and Piccolo (Who feared Est Kaioshin) stopped training after the Buu Saga, the only thing that upgraded them was the moments of training between them and its still strange their big jump in tier, lastly these characters does not grew in strength without training.
 
"Piccolo stopped training after the Buu Saga"

Proof? Piccolo's really not one to slack off on training.
 
There are five years between the Buu Saga and the RoF saga. I highly doubt he'd only get "slightly superior" in that time.
 
Roshi was upgraded to Small Planet level and we never saw him training so that can apply to Piccolo as well, i agree to upgrade Tagoma and Ginyu to Large Star level+.
 
But at least Roshi has the time and chances to train


Gohan trained for a day, stopped for like a week or more, and then he was matching Goku.
 
I think Large Star level+ is fine, i don't believe if you train for a few days you become that much stronger. If it was then Tien, Krillin and the others will likely match the 4-B opponents in the tournament, which i have the fear it's going to happen.
 
Yeah, that's why I think that they should be 4-B


At least in the years between Buu Arc and DBS they can train (And Gohan had his power unlocked. So, this is an assumption only, shouldn't he be weaker than his Mystic form, but not neccesarily weaker than his Cell Saga self)
 
I disagree with the fact that they are all 4-B or 3-A because the training, but it's because the plot requires it. The best example is Beerus, who said that Goku (If he did not became a god) trained for his entire life he would have never reached him and his tier, but Future Trunks after some training was fighting Rose Black and Zamasu (These two were damaging Goku [Who fought Beerus prior] and Vegeta Super Saiyan Blue) as a normal Super Saiyan without problems.
 
yes, but i fear that will heavily return in the battle royal, so if that happens then we can agree to upgrade Tagoma and the others.
 
I always just assumed halfbreeds all have stupid potential. Like Vegeta has implied Gohan would be much stronger than he or Goku if he never stopped training. SSB Vegeta was definitely holding back against Trunks, since SSJ2 Trunks got one shot by SSJ3 Goku (or SSG Goku in the manga). Trunks only ever really tangled with SSJR Black as a SSJ2 when Black was busy with Goku and Trunks would just hit him while he was distracted. Trunks never showed anything conclusively showing god level feats until his new form. As for the battle royale, the other people may just genuinely be on their level, no reason Goku and Vegeta are the only God Tier mortals.
 
Also, if Base/SSJ goku are only Solar System Level, do we just work on the assumption that SSB is like a duodecillion times boost or something?
 
Dragon Ball Super is regrettably ridiculously inconsistent. It is extremely hard to figure out a way to assign tiers with as limited contradictions as possible.
 
I'm primarily just curious as to why base Goku isn't higher. During his fight with Beerus, once he reverted to SSJ, it was stated at that point he'd already surpassed his god form. Don't think that's the same thing as SBG as that's something he had to train for.
 
It's really the problem withdragon ball inconsitence Vegito in DBZ when he fought BUU is exactly at the same tier 4-b. And Cell is also at the same tier. We need some evidence to change the tier.

So we have a gap if we are strong enough to fight ssjb you are 3-A otherwise many character became 4-B stronger than Cell.
 
Are guidebook statements used here? Cause if so Buuhan was confirmed to be about to destroy the universe when Vegito stopped him.
 
Leogian4511 said:
During his fight with Beerus, once he reverted to SSJ, it was stated at that point he'd already surpassed his god form. Don't think that's the same thing as SBG as that's something he had to train for.
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There is nothing to do about this. We agreed that despite Beerus saying this, it's completely inconsistent to put Base Goku and everyone who fought with him (Botamo, Frost, Gohan and etc.) to 3-A. We also cannot put the base characters higher because the 4-B scope is extremely extensive and because we don't have feats of this scope. Several characters in GT is 4-A because of Kid Buu feat, which is Anime Filler only and not present in the original manga, which super is after.
 
Im gonna try to upgrade Tien to 4-C like next week not sure if other people will scale though.
 
Promestein said:
^ That'd be an outlier.
Click to expand...
Isn't something only an outlier if something after the fact contradicts it? Cause for all we know both Potara Fusion and Majin Absorbtion could just have insane multipliers tacked on to them just like the God form does. Not like Vegito or Buuhan were ever taken out by something lesser, since they pretty much only fought each other.
 
Even if we wanna say they're a fraction of God Goku, since God Goku was going to destroy the macroverse, afterlife included, and Buuhan may have just been going to destroy the living world.
 
I don't think the scene you're talking about even happens in the manga, so it's irrelevant. It's an outlier because it's a huge leap.
 
Leogian4511 said:
Isn't something only an outlier if something after the fact contradicts it? Cause for all we know both Potara Fusion and Majin Absorbtion could just have insane multipliers tacked on to them just like the God form does. Not like Vegito or Buuhan were ever taken out by something lesser, since they pretty much only fought each other.
Click to expand...
A jump for 4-B to 3-A because of multipliers is an inconsistent big jump, which should not to be taken seriously. Both Majin Absorbtion and Potara Fusion have nothing to do with the God forms, which they were initially created for Goku to fight Beerus.
 
Not at all saying they're related, just that if that form can jump Goku from 4-B to 3-A, why those things wouldn't be able to. BTW, I totally get pretty much all the reasoning presented here, these are just questions about DB tiering I've had for a while.
 
RadicalMrR said:
Im gonna try to upgrade Tien to 4-C like next week not sure if other people will scale though.
Click to expand...
Tien has decent jumps in tier between arcs, but not to this much. You may think he is as stong as First Form Frieza at the moment, but that's a big assumption. A lot of people say that he is High 4-C to 4-B for damaging Cell and deflecting Buutenks attack, but that's just inconsistency.
 
Leogian4511 said:
Not at all saying they're related, just that if that form can jump Goku from 4-B to 3-A, why those things wouldn't be able to. BTW, I totally get pretty much all the reasoning presented here, these are just questions about DB tiering I've had for a while.
Click to expand...
Because like Ant said Dragon Ball Super is regrettably ridiculously inconsistent, like i have mentioned Trunks taking on 3-A beings as a normal Super Saiyan and likely Gohan will soon fight on par with a 3-A being that can fight with Kaioken Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
 
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