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God of War Dimensional Downgrade Part 1(???): The Yggdrasil

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TyphonEX

TyphonEX

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A while ago, God of War's characters were upgraded to Low 1-C due to scaling to the Yggdrasil, which encompasses the Realm Between Realms, which itself was argued to be Low 1-C due to it separating parallel realms, and because separate geometrically-parallel 4D entities could only be embedded in and separated by 5D space. Most of this reasoning is correct, but there is one key flaw that invalidates this whole chain of logic: the assertion that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel. People seem to just assume that this is true for some reason without ever providing or even seeing evidence to back it up, but this assertion has zero proof behind it and must be discarded. This a grave error that invalidates the justification for Low 1-C God of War from the Norse cosmology entirely since the upgrade of the Yggdrasil to Low 1-C entirely hinges on this assumption that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel, a fact that the creator of the Yggdrasil upgrade thread acknowledges (screenshot here for when the link stops working and yes, I've taken a lot of time off between arguing in his wall and making this thread lol). To be more specific, the Nine Realms would have to adhere to a generalization of parallelism into higher dimensions, since parallelism is only really defined for 2D and 1D objects. There isn't really a widely-accepted definition for what constitutes "parallel cubes" for example since discussion of parallel objects is overwhelmingly limited to 1D or 2D objects in 2D or 3D space. In this post, I will go over the flawed arguments for the claim that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel, refute them, and make my point as to why it should be discarded, along with the subsequent scaling of the Yggdrasil to Low 1-C based off of geometrical parallelism by extension. (The verse, probably including the Yggdrasil, also scales to Low 1-C via arguments from the Greek cosmology and hypertimelines, but that is something I may address in a later post if my argument here is accepted)

But to start things off, it is imperative that I deal with one issue: obviously, the nine realms are "parallel universes/dimensions." But this does not mean that they are "geometrically parallel" in the sense that they adhere to a generalization of parallelism to higher dimensions. "Parallel universe" is a term that does not necessarily refer to the mathematical concept of parallelism, but simply refers to separate universes. This is entirely different from the concept of parallelism in mathematics, although the former term is obviously inspired by the latter.

Anyways, now that that's out of the way, like I said, there is no proof that the Nine Realms in God of War are geometrically parallel. Such proof is noticeably absent in either of the upgrade threads for the Realm Between Realms or the Yggdrasil, the thread linked to in the RBR thread for "context," or even the separate explanation page for the GOW cosmology.
-A look at the Yggdrasil thread reveals that the thread is basically just 5 pages of agreement with the fact that the Yggdrasil scales to the RBR save for one guy claiming that the statements supporting this fact are "flowery" for some reason (and promptly being refuted), so this thread is irrelevant to this argument.
-The RBR thread does not offer any arguments for the Nine Realms being geometrically parallel either. The posts that do address this claim seem to take the Nine Realms as being geometrically parallel universes embedded in a 5 dimensional space for granted for some reason with no evidence provided or cited. Take DontTalkDT's first post on the matter (which is cited here for example as a reason to upgrade the RBR) or this one here for example. There aren't any actual arguments for the Nine Realms being geometrically parallel in that thread, it is simply taken for granted probably because of the fact that separate realms are often referred to as "parallel universes/worlds" in both fictional and real-life discourse, although this is a problematic connection to make for aforementioned reasons. However, the OP does link to the GOW cosmology explanation page, which does seem to argue for why the Nine Realms are parallel, and which I will address later in this post.
-Mirroring the earlier examples, the thread linked to in the RBR thread for "context" does not offer any arguments or evidence for the realms being geometrically parallel. Again, the only posts that use the word "parallel" simply go off of the assumption that the Nine Realms are parallel without any evidence for such an assumption, such as this one and this one. There are no actual arguments or proof provided that the Nine Realms are parallel here either. However, it does also cite the God of War cosmology explanation page

The God of War cosmology explanation page is the only potential source of any arguments or evidence for the claim that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel, however flawed and invalid these arguments or evidence may be, so my refutation of its arguments is practically a refutation of the arguments for Low 1-C Yggdrasil as a whole (save for scaling to Greek GOW cosmology). Thus, this may or may not be the most important paragraph in this post in terms of responding to arguments. The cosmology explanation page never actually makes any explicit arguments for the Nine Realms being geometrically parallel, but it does refer to the Nine Realms section to address the issue of parallelism in the Nine Realms. The Nine Realms section explains that the Nine Realms are spatiotemporally separate realms, which doesn't actually say anything about whether or not they are geometrically parallel. However, it does also claim that "Direct physical travel between the Nine Realms is also impossible, even if you are physically on the branches of the World Tree Yggdrasil itself." This seems to be the justification for the idea that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel, as it would be impossible to travel between geometrically parallel realms by physically moving in any of their dimensions. However, the truth is that travel between the Nine Realms is only generally limited to travel in the Realm Travel Room for people like Kratos and Atreus, and there is no reason to believe that this restriction on travel between realms is due to some sort of geometrical parallelism causing direct physical travel between the realms to be impossible. It is shown in God of War that Odin has sealed travel between the realms. That's it. That sufficiently explains the restriction on travel between the Nine Realms. No need for this headcanon about the Nine Realms being geometrically parallel. I've also heard that the Nine Realms are called "parallel" but I have neither seen evidence of this nor evidence that any potential use of the word "parallel" indicates that the Nine Realms adhere to some sort of generalization of parallelism to higher dimensions that is never even used in mathematics as opposed to simply using the common meaning of the term "parallel universe/world/etc" often used both in fiction and in discussing fiction (which is obviously topical in this case).

All in all, there is no evidence or reason to believe that the realms are geometrically parallel. It's possible that they're geometrically parallel, but we don't upgrade things on this wiki based on "possible" assumptions. We need proof since the burden of proof is on those who claim that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel, and there simply is no proof of this at all in God of War. Due to Occam's Razor, explanations with more unjustified assumptions must be discarded, and that would include the claim that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel and that the RBR and Yggdrasil are 5D by extension (although they would still scale to 5D due to Greek scaling).
In actuality, there is no evidence that the Nine Realms are parallel, and thus, no need for the RBR, and by extension the Yggdrasil, to be a 5D construct that encompasses them. The assumption that the Nine Realms are geometrically parallel is just that: an assumption with no evidence behind it. Thus, due to Occam's razor and the way this site is conducted, it should be discarded.

Tl;dr: It is claimed that the Yggdrasil is Low 1-C since it embeds geometrically parallel 4D spacetime continuums within itself, but I've scoured through the God of War upgrade threads and the fact is that there is literally no proof of that claim at all. My proposition is that due to this, we should discard the Norse arguments for Low 1-C GOW entirely, although the Greek arguments for Low 1-C would still stand for now.

Current staff evaluations-
Agree: currently 0
Disagree: currently 3, likely 4 (Planck69, Theglassman12, Emirp sumitpo, likely DarkDragonMedeus)
Neutral: currently 0
 
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I suppose "The Nine Realms aren't parallel" CRT is a rite of passage for all God of War supporters, so I guess it's my turn. Anyway;

The above shows they're parallel to each other across all 4-dimensions, not just three. And the length of the Yggdrasil branches being infinite means this 5-dimensional separation would be one of significant size. Hell, even assuming the thread had merit and these weren't parallel but rather just standard separated space-time continuums (whatever that means), the 5-dimensional distance between universes would be infinite anyways, leaving us back at square one.

I have posted essentially every argument and scan currently accepted for them being spatially separate and parallel planes of existence. And since no one here wants a needless back-and-forth, you can post any counter you have, and we can let the staff decide. A few things to make clear (not necessarily something the OP has brought up but rather arguments I see a lot of in these types of threads);

  • Do not talk about interpretations being "lower" being better as though that's some rebuttal, given the proof and scans of the matter are posted above, and the fact that the issue is completely tier-independent. You need to post proof of any counters, be it scans from canon material or standards within the tiering pages that aren't being followed.
  • There shouldn't be the slightest mention of whataboutisms here. "It could be like X verse" isn't a counter; it's farcical nonsense. This is solely an in-verse discussion.
  • Argument ad verbosity or ad nauseam should be avoided. Many posts you've made seem to be a few lines/paragraphs stretched out to make them sound more valid. That wastes me, the other staff's, and your time. Any argument whose premise begins "well, it could also be this" without any sort of evidence linked for it will, quite frankly, be treated as rambling.

This topic has been discussed at length and exhausted more times than anything else in this franchise's time on the site. There have already been attempts made at least twice to downgrade them using similar or adjacent logic as this thread and rejected. So if nothing new is brought up about the separation of the Nine Realms, supported by evidence, let alone rejecting this thread, I have half a mind to propose a discussion rule about the matter.
 
TyphonEX said:
: It is claimed that the Yggdrasil is Low 1-C since it embeds geometrically parallel 4D spacetime continuums within itself, but I've scoured through the God of War upgrade threads and the fact is that there is literally no proof of that claim at all. My proposition is that due to this, we should discard the Norse arguments for Low 1-C GOW entirely, although the Greek arguments for Low 1-C would still stand for now.
Click to expand...
How does that even happen? How can you make something as popular as GoW tier 1 with the argumentative equivalent of "lol dude, trust me". And this is like the 20th time a GoW profile has pulled things out of his ass cough cough Baby creation cough cough
 
What you call “parallelism” is an extra although gow has that. If a space holds more than one 4-dimensional space, it must have a 5th axis so that these 4-dimensional structures do not intersect each other on any angular axis, but the initial problem with Yggdrasil is that the 5-dimensional space that separates the 4-dimensional space-time continua axis so that these 4-dimensional structures do not intersect each other on any angular axis, but the initial problem with Yggdrasil was that it could be a 4-dimensional structure branching within the 5-dimensional space that separates the 4-dimensional space-time continua, but cookbook scans tell us that basically the tree even encompasses the RBR that separates and encompasses the 4-dimensional realms and extends on this axis, and each extending branch is infinite, which is stated in a separate chapter.


What DT was telling us was literally this ;
It would be 5D. Whether it would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate. Is it important to some character if it is?
Click to expand...

In short, it was not a problem that the RBR really has a 5-dimensional axis, the problem was whether Yggdrasil extends infinitely on this axis or not, because according to DT, you can only be a 4-dimensional structure of volume 0 that extends in 5-dimensional space, so you have to prove that you are infinite on the 5th axis itself. And we basically proved that.


So we found out from the cookbook scans that in RBR, which is already considered 5-D, Yggdrasil completely occupies this space and even in this space with the 5th axis, its branches completely occupy the space and extend infinitely. And after we presented it, DT gave the green light here. Planck has the scans, he can throw them to you.

This is just a summary, I can go deeper if you want


Edit : I just saw that Planck wrote the message
 
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1. Can someone explain me why would parallelism between "universes", give another spatial dimension? I curse you gauss
2. Stop with the Disagree FRA train, at the very least give OP a chance to argue about his points
 
Livinmeme said:
1. Can someone explain me why would parallelism between "universes", give another spatial dimension? I curse you gauss
2. Stop with the Disagree FRA train, at the very least give OP a chance to argue about his points
Click to expand...
Although GoW has this, the issue is not necessarily parallelism... For example, in order for multiple 4-dimensional structures that are separate from each other not to touch each other on any angular axis, in short, to remain separate 4-dimensional structures from each other, the plane they are on has a dimensional structure that keeps them at 0 volume on the extra axis. They need an axis, this is the 5th dimensional axis for 4-dimensional structures. This is the main reason why all 4-dimensional structures that are separate from each other within the 5th dimensional axis remain in 0 volume, without any contact with each other. For 4D structures, this cannot happen on the 4th axis. Because they are parts of the same axis.

This is something that is already in our standards, and DT made it more clear, Ultima also mentioned this a few times.
 
Robo432343 said:
people can change their opinions if a counter argument has been made
Click to expand...
And most people won't bother to change their opinion because either
A. they have forgotten about the thread
B. They just don't care
C. MUH PRIDE (being stubborn...Like me!)
Anyways, I am not going to risk a potential somewhat important thread be shutdown because some mod told said something, and the plebians followed
 
Livinmeme said:
1. Can someone explain me why would parallelism between "universes", give another spatial dimension? I curse you gauss
2. Stop with the Disagree FRA train, at the very least give OP a chance to argue about his points
Click to expand...
1. I went over this in the base upgrade thread. But to repeat; aside from the standard assumption with separate space-time continuums, the base logic is that for two spaces to be fully separate across all their dimensions, they'd have to be displaced across a higher dimension (two lines can only be parallel on a plane, two planes can only be parallel in a 3-dimensional volume etc.).

The same logic applied above shows that they're displaced across, in this case, 5-dimensional space. That's not what upgrades the Yggdrasil but the fact that the branches spread out infinitely, meaning this overall higher-dimensional space is significant in size across 5 dimensions, and thus Low 1-C. And since the Yggdrasil created this space (the RBR) and sustains it, it would scale as well.

2. The rapid votes aren't really anything new and they're fairly welcome to give their opinion on this, especially since they can't evaluate. I would like there to be a response at least before voting yeah.
 
Livinmeme said:
Can someone explain me why would parallelism between "universes", give another spatial dimension?
Click to expand...
We already consider there to be a 5 dimensional axis between universes, as per the FAQ,

"Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."

Being Parallel is just a fact about the Realms.
 
I’ll just say that if they’re not parallel, then they’re either:
a) Intersecting (meaning they are not separated timelines);
b) Skew (meaning dimensionality is higher than n+1)

So them being geometrically parallel makes sense
 
Planck69 said:
I suppose "The Nine Realms aren't parallel" CRT is a rite of passage for all God of War supporters, so I guess it's my turn. Anyway;

The above shows they're parallel to each other across all 4-dimensions, not just three. And the length of the Yggdrasil branches being infinite means this 5-dimensional separation would be one of significant size. Hell, even assuming the thread had merit and these weren't parallel but rather just standard separated space-time continuums (whatever that means), the 5-dimensional distance between universes would be infinite anyways, leaving us back at square one.

I have posted essentially every argument and scan currently accepted for them being spatially separate and parallel planes of existence. And since no one here wants a needless back-and-forth, you can post any counter you have, and we can let the staff decide. A few things to make clear (not necessarily something the OP has brought up but rather arguments I see a lot of in these types of threads);

  • Do not talk about interpretations being "lower" being better as though that's some rebuttal, given the proof and scans of the matter are posted above, and the fact that the issue is completely tier-independent. You need to post proof of any counters, be it scans from canon material or standards within the tiering pages that aren't being followed.
  • There shouldn't be the slightest mention of whataboutisms here. "It could be like X verse" isn't a counter; it's farcical nonsense. This is solely an in-verse discussion.
  • Argument ad verbosity or ad nauseam should be avoided. Many posts you've made seem to be a few lines/paragraphs stretched out to make them sound more valid. That wastes me, the other staff's, and your time. Any argument whose premise begins "well, it could also be this" without any sort of evidence linked for it will, quite frankly, be treated as rambling.

This topic has been discussed at length and exhausted more times than anything else in this franchise's time on the site. There have already been attempts made at least twice to downgrade them using similar or adjacent logic as this thread and rejected. So if nothing new is brought up about the separation of the Nine Realms, supported by evidence, let alone rejecting this thread, I have half a mind to propose a discussion rule about the matter.
Click to expand...
I suppose this makes sense.
 
Planck69 said:
Click to expand...
Yep, this looks like textbook tier 1 to me.
 
Livinmeme said:
1. Can someone explain me why would parallelism between "universes", give another spatial dimension? I curse you gauss
Click to expand...
An example I often use is about accessible points.

When you have an infinite one-dimensional axis, all the points in that axis are available with movement across that axis. If you were to make a point that does not exist in that axis, it necessarily exists outside that one-dimensional axis, that point could be in a second one-dimensional axis that is parallel to the first one, but located across a perpendicular one-dimensional axis. If you had to represent a singular space that would wholly encompass that one-dimensional axis and the point not located in the one-dimensional axis, that space would be at least a 2-Dimensional area.

Apply this concept to any n-dimensional space and an attempt to reach a point that is not located in the wholly content of the n-dimensional space, the space that wholly encompasses the n-dimensional space and the extra point would need to be at least N+1-dimensional.

Using parallel universes as an example, if you have 3 dimensions of space that spread infinitely, by moving infinitely you could reach any point in that 3-dimensional space. Unless there's some stuff like a great spatial distortion that stops movement or blocks something from reaching a point. In this case, if you have another 3-dimensional space that does not overlap wholly with the first one in 3 dimensions, it means that for the two to coexist, they need to be displaced across an extra-dimensional axis. This is why any multiverse with actual parallel universes will need extra dimensions more than the 3 dimensions in the universes themselves, spatially multiverses are by necessity 4D (5D if you were to count a temporal dimension).

What will be different depending on the cosmology is the size of that extra-dimensional axis, as you theoretically could have an infinite number of parallel 3 dimensions across a very small 4th spatial axis, and our system only accepts higher dimensions if they are of significant size or if the cosmology
 
I disagree with the CRT, and wanted to specifically address this right here, although I see that Planck69 did as part of his post, too! It stuck out to me a little bit because it's pretty incorrect for reasons which might not be immediately obvious:
TyphonEX said:
However, the truth is that travel between the Nine Realms is only generally limited to travel in the Realm Travel Room for people like Kratos and Atreus, and there is no reason to believe that this restriction on travel between realms is due to some sort of geometrical parallelism causing direct physical travel between the realms to be impossible. It is shown in God of War that Odin has sealed travel between the realms. That's it.
Click to expand...
Traveling between the Nine Realms isn't really commonplace, to the point that Atreus is absolutely overwhelmed by the idea of realm travel in general. (Atreus could not fathom how anything could exist in more than one realm at a time. If it were here with them, how could it be in a different realm at that same time? They would travel from one realm into another, and once they arrived at their destination realm, they would no longer exist in the realm they departed. Or would they?) The sentence appears to be constructed in a way that makes it seem like Kratos and Atreus are the exception for needing the Realm Travel Room, and they are, but not in the way that travel between realms is considered commonplace. They don't even consider Jotunheim's highest peak to be an option for Faye's ashes at first in 2018.

Additionally, the scan provided specifically only mentions Vanaheim. We, indeed, never travel to Vanaheim in 2018 (but do in Ragnarök, and we get to play with wolves there), as it is one of the realms sealed by Odin, but there is an interesting caveat to this. As Planck69 states in his post:
Planck69 said:
Travel between the Nine Realms via direct 3-dimensional movement never happens. Freya explicitly states you need a Bifrost to use the Realm Travel Room. Odin sealed off the realms of Vanaheim, Svartalfheim, and Asgard...
Click to expand...
Baldur later dramatically uses the Realm Travel room to try and Realm Travel to Asgard (which only fails due to Kratos physically stopping him from doing so and changing the destination to Helheim at the last possible moment). Despite clearly not being prevented from visiting Asgard due to Odin's seal, Baldur still can't just walk north a little ways and arrive there. He still needs to use magical equipment like Bifrost and the Realm Travel Room in order to get there.

Also, the track that plays when Kratos is chasing Baldur in that scene is my second favorite in 2018. I wanted to share it because I like it a lot. Sorry this post got so long, I'm working on my brevity.
 
Planck69 said:
Click to expand...
Alright, we finally have arguments for the Nine Realms being parallel. But first off, we should establish a definition for "parallel" that we will use since, as I mentioned in the OP, there isn't a real widely accepted definition for "parallel" for 3D and above objects since discussion of parallel objects is overwhelmingly limited to 1D and 2D objects in 2D or 3D space. Parallel objects must have the same dimensional axes, and must be mutually unreachable by movement along these axes or by movement vectors that have these axes as their components. Take this image for example. The two rectangles both exist along the axes of height and width, but are unreachable by movement that only uses those axes. But, they are reachable if you use the axis of depth. But here's an example of objects that are not parallel despite not touching. They have the same dimensional axes, but are reachable through movement along those axes, so they are not parallel even though they don't touch. This should be common knowledge among you guys, but I just want to double check.

Now, onto your arguments.

  • This does not prove that they are parallel. They are separate and non-intersecting, but as I demonstrated earlier, it is possible for two objects of the same dimensionality to not touch while also not being parallel and not being embedded in higher-dimensional space, although this is only possible if those objects are finite in at least 1 of their dimensions. Even if they only have 1 finite dimension, it is still possible for them to not touch while also not being fully parallel. The red and blue rectangles extend infinitely through the x-axis/horizontally, but do not touch despite not being fully parallel and not being embedded in a higher dimension. This is because their extension through the y-axis is still finite.
  • This does not prove that they are parallel either. Again, separate and non-intersecting =/= parallel
  • Again, separate =/= parallel.
  • You need to prove that this is because of the realms being parallel. The fact that Odin sealed travel between realms and they need alternative methods to travel between them is enough to explain this, no need for an entirely-separate headcanon that they're parallel.
  • Again, this is not proof of them being parallel. They use portals because Odin sealed travel between realms. Your codex entry image link is dead btw.
So far, literally all of your arguments have been either "they're separate therefore they're parallel" (which is demonstrably untrue) or "they need methods to travel between realms other than 3-dimensional movement" which is quite clearly due to the fact that Odin sealed travel between the realms.

I think one of the biggest problems you guys are having is the implicit assumption that the Nine Realms themselves are infinite in all of their dimensions, because it is true that separate objects that are infinite in all of their dimensions that have the same dimensions must be parallel to be separate, and thus must need an additional dimension. But the Nine Realms aren't infinite. They are temporally infinite, but they are not spatially infinite. They are spatially finite. Therefore, they can exist within the same space while both not intersecting and not being parallel. Their extensions through time would have to be either parallel or skew (which is possible in 4D since there's only one infinite dimension involved), but their extensions along their spatial dimensions do not have to be. So, these objects with finite extensions through the spatial dimensions but infinite extension along the time dimension can exist without an extra spatial dimension since that extra dimension is only necessary for them not to touch if all of the dimensions of the objects are infinite. Like this (forgive me for my bad drawing). Obviously I can't draw in 4 dimensions, so I have to make a lower dimensional analogue where the 3 dimensions of space are smushed down to 2 spatial components while the 4th dimension of time is shown. The "snapshots" of each of the realms at any one point in time are spatially finite, but the extension of the realm itself through the time dimension is infinite, which is exactly the same as how it is in God of War. The diagram I gave lacks the equivalent of Odin's travel seals for the sake of simplicity, so here's a version with Odin's travel seals included (again, sorry for my bad drawing). The time dimensions are either parallel or skew and thus never meet despite being infinite. However, the spatial components do not have to be parallel. Despite only being within a space that is the same dimensionality as either of them, they still do not touch. That is why an additional dimension is not necessary, since an additional dimension is only necessary when all the shared dimensions are infinitely extended upon by the objects.

ExecutorN0 said:
Using parallel universes as an example, if you have 3 dimensions of space that spread infinitely, by moving infinitely you could reach any point in that 3-dimensional space. Unless there's some stuff like a great spatial distortion that stops movement or blocks something from reaching a point.
Click to expand...
That's where the problems come in. First of all, the nine realms in God of War do NOT have 3 dimensions of space that spread infinitely within themselves. Second of all, there is in fact some sort of thing that blocks something from reaching a point in God of War. That obstacle is the fact that Odin sealed travel between realms. Considering both of those things, parallelism is not necessary.

Georredanea15 said:
For example, in order for multiple 4-dimensional structures that are separate from each other not to touch each other on any angular axis, in short, to remain separate 4-dimensional structures from each other, the plane they are on has a dimensional structure that keeps them at 0 volume on the extra axis.
Click to expand...
I already demonstrated that they don't need another dimensional axis to be separated though. (version with Odin's travel seal included)

Pepsimanslover_69 said:
We already consider there to be a 5 dimensional axis between universes, as per the FAQ,

"Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."
Click to expand...
But the thing is, "frequently" does not mean "always" or "we can assume that they do". The FAQ does not say that all structures past 2-C are separated along a 5th dimensional axis. We cannot assume that the Nine Realms "have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them" without evidence. And as I've demonstrated, them being separate is not proof of this since only objects that are infinite in all of their dimensions (which the Nine Realms are not) require a higher dimension to be embedded in to be separate. Separate =/= parallel, and none of our standards say that separate realms have to be parallel.
 
Executor_N0 said:
What will be different depending on the cosmology is the size of that extra-dimensional axis, as you theoretically could have an infinite number of parallel 3 dimensions across a very small 4th spatial axis, and our system only accepts higher dimensions if they are of significant size or if the cosmology
Click to expand...
In addition to me pointing out the fact that the realms do not need to be separated by a 5th dimensional axis at all since they don't infinitely extend in all 4 of their dimensions, there's actually no proof that even if they were, that the Realm between Realms would extend in any substantial direction in the 5th dimension. DontTalkDT actually pointed out in the RBR upgrade thread that "Whether it [Realm Between Realms] would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate" and the alleged extent of the RBR along the 5th dimension is never really revisited at all later in the thread iirc. Even IF we accept the 5th dimension as being necessary (and I've already demonstrated that it isn't for these spatially-finite Nine Realms), we don't know if the Realm Between Realms is just another 4D realm with 0 5D "volume" sandwiched in between the realms or if it actually substantially extends in the 5th dimension. No evidence has been provided for this either.
 
TyphonEX said:
In addition to me pointing out the fact that the realms do not need to be separated by a 5th dimensional axis at all since they don't infinitely extend in all 4 of their dimensions, there's actually no proof that even if they were, that the Realm between Realms would extend in any substantial direction in the 5th dimension. DontTalkDT actually pointed out in the RBR upgrade thread that "Whether it [Realm Between Realms] would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate" and the alleged extent of the RBR along the 5th dimension is never really revisited at all later in the thread iirc. Even IF we accept the 5th dimension as being necessary (and I've already demonstrated that it isn't for these spatially-finite Nine Realms), we don't know if the Realm Between Realms is just another 4D realm with 0 5D "volume" sandwiched in between the realms or if it actually substantially extends in the 5th dimension. No evidence has been provided for this either.
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It is directly brought up in the thread following it though? This entire thread feels less like its been properly thought and more like it latches onto disparate parts of prior CRTs, given that the infinite length of the Yggdrasil's branches, and thus the infinite extent of the 5-dimensional separation is directly elaborated both on the page and on the upgrade CRTs.

The rest of the response just circles back to either a misunderstanding of what the argument for Tier 1 is or very obtuse run arounds for very basic information presented to us. Not to mention mistaking reasoning for "leaps in logic" as though we expect the sentence "5-dimensional axis" to be uttered.

The facts of the matter are; spatially 3-dimensional realm travel never happens in the setting at all. You have not showcased such a fact beyond backwards reasoning nor has anything of the sort been implied. We've been told and shown methods of travel and none allow for regular movement. That's all we have to go off of on top of the below;

The realms are reflections of each other, alternate planes of existence. This alone disabuses anyone of any idea that they might lshare the basic 3 dimensions of space. They have their own timelines which disabuses any notion of them sharing a temporal dimension and finally, they're on disparate branches of the Yggdrasil.

The above is what we know of, with no other information to the contrary presented in-universe. And I'd rather base my reasoning on that than overly bloated and obtuse reasoning as to otherwise.
 
Pepsimanslover_69 said:
Wouldn't it also be wise to tag DontTalkDT considering his knowledge on the topic?
Click to expand...
He rarely ever shows up for these things so I didn't think it necessary. Plus, that was more so for the staff who've voted or seen the thread to see TyphonEX's response to my post. But alright.

@DontTalkDT
 
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