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Hear me out on this. First of all, I'm a diehard God of War fan, but after recently discovering Kratos obtaining a upgrade as a multiverse level character, I am going to disagree on this alone. I've seen people use statements and the mythologies of certain gods to upgrade them, but I'm more of a person that prefers feats--convincing feats over statements. (Actions speak louder than words.)
I have proof here.
[[1]]
There are actual "feats" which support this point of view some users on /r/whowouldwin seem to have. It all comes from here apperantly and anybody who links this Imgur gallery is most definitely wanking God of War so watch out for that. This is at least a step up from using titles to justify power though so props to whoever does this for at least being creative
Regardless "universal" God of War is ludicrously and insanely wanked in addition to being hilariously un - convincing. No other significant VS sites have accepted it for that reason, Comicvine, Narutoforums, Spacebattles and VS Battle Wiki don't have Kratos as universal. Granted the vast majority of Comicvine and Spacebattles wouldn't have seen this stuff like almost all of the users on /r/whowouldwin so there is that to consider. Its definitely safe to say all of the more "reasonable" people and the power players on Narutoforums and VS Battle Wiki disagree with the "upgrades"
The wank itself has been around for at least a year and it is exactly the same content that appeared in SethTheCircleJerk's God of War video. As Seth just sourced his stuff from the people who support "universal" God of War
Currently if there is any one character you're going to want to dislike, no make that hate out of shear unadulterated WANK its going to be Kratos
All the "relevant" claims of "universal" feats There are about 3 of them
Cronus beat Uranus who created the universe
And This is the main one however there are tons of problems with it
1 - The timeline scan is completely un - sourced, it supposed to be from the "official" website for God of War ascension but that doesn't even exist as nothing comes up when it is searched for which makes this very dubious canon at best and that's definitely pushing it. There is no conformation the [2010 comics](http://godofwar.wikia.com/wiki/God_of_War_(comics) are canon either they weren't made by whoever makes the God of War games
2 - It doesn't say exactly how the Titan Cronus beat Uranus his Primordial father. He just "overthrew" him which doesn't have to mean he defeated or killed him its not know how he did this either as its never ever shown or even mentioned in any of the games which are the confirmed canon. Yes The Cycle of Patricide does exist and is a concept in God of War but it only started with Cronus and Zeus. Regardless of that he obviously didn't kill him either because Uranus got his head punched off of his body by Thalassa and exploded into stars which is consistent with with the other Primordials getting damaged or dying to create an aspect of nature or the universe, hes never seen fighting again in the intro either which is also coherent with the only living Primordials left fighting, he was one of the two and possibly three which were shown dying
3 - Just "Giving life" to the universe isn't a universal feat in any way, shape or form in the same way that giving life to a world wouldn't mean creating one, the universe as around before anything in God of War it was just in Chaos. It might be worth noting that none of the other Primordials have universal death feats either they just created more worldly aspects like the mountains or the oceans
4 - The obvious reason
Even if Cronus was confirmed by the canon to have this feat it would be a massively, stupidly and utterly insane outlier to such a massive degree that it would have to be discounted from God of War power scaling for that very reason
Cronus isn't one of the main Primordials ["Main" because there are lots of other characters who are also Primordial but mostly not at all comparable to Uranus and the like in power] who are the only ones with above planetary feats since they were literally made of stars or at least two of them were when they all started fighting each other. Cronus is one of the many characters confined to the main world and would only reasonably scale to everyone else there
To put it into perspective these are the top 6 feats for the "regular" characters in the games focusing on Greek mythology:
Poseidon's death floods Greece and then the world: Country - Continent level, which shows how much water was under his control and bound to him
Persephone's death explosion [however Kratos didn't get hit by this version of it] destroying some of the World Pillar: At least Country probably Continent level as the World Pillar was resistant enough to hold up the crust of the Earth just like Atlas
Atlas lifting the world's crust: Continent level possibly higher
Atlas's hammer having the weight of the world: Multi Continent level, presumably not the planet as "planet" was never specified and Atlas holds the World Pillar
The Death of the gods doomed the world: Possibly Continent - Multi Continent level, depending on how much the world was actually affected
Helios's power being able to destroy the world: Multi Continental, the statement is self explanatory its also a key plot point in Chains of Olympus. It would be true that Helios's power has no specified time frame in which it can destroy the world so its just base line for that level of power
The above definitely scale to Kratos and Cronus specifically although neither are as strong physically strong as Atlas and would be incapable of razing the surface of a planet because they both do not have an attack with a wide enough radius to do it even though they are on approximately the same power tier as Helios
According to power scaling Kratos is much more powerful than many people think he is on here and /r/whowouldwin when God of War's feats are taken at face value and interpreted fairly this is going to get me called a Kratos wanker its inevitable, Kratos's power tier is a subject of mass controversy, isn't he considered small city level to possibly mountain level or something? Or even anti jerked into street tier street tier when normal humans in God of War can be considered "street tier" and the weakest game version of Kratos could flip over streets
But as has been mentioned before no planet level feats are present and two of the above only count for lifting strength. A multi continental character [Cronus] defeating a multi stellar Primordial is just as well outlier - ish as...
Post Crisis Superman stopping an attack that could destroy half the galaxy and destroying something that could blow away the entire milky way
Further more...
Spiderman is not S tier, this one doesn't require context its just too obvious
There is also no way that the incredible Hulk can shake the multiverse and be infinite according to an omniscient being
Absolutely none of the above don't count as outlier's, Cronus's statement is an outlier for the same reason they are. The in question timeline itself is also likely not canon at all in the first place unless there is evidence otherwise, rule 5 and burden of proof
Everything here is not a case of "AOE", "PIS" or "Ki Control" either there is nothing at all which suggests a lack of "AOE" outside of the already botched scaling to Uranus. In fact Helios's sun power was considered unfathomable by just about everyone in chains of Olympus such as Atlas, Athena and others because it could "destroy the world" granted Helios wasn't the most powerful Olympian but all of them and all of the other god like beings are universal according to God of War wankers. Universal characters would not be below world destroying power and ironically enough his "AOE" is also higher than multi continental because his domain is the sun. Just in case someone tries... Helios isn't star level he just has sun powers "DAE"? Star level calculators and solar panels? Not at all
Helios banishes Nyx everyday making him universal because Nyx is a Primordial goddess who helped create the universe
Nyx has no feats at all the "proof" of Nyx being "universal" comes from another un - sourced website which makes this invalid already. She may be a Primordial being but so are lots of other characters like Gaia, The Furies, The Sisters of Fate and Thanatos who would all be classed as "Primordial" in the God of War universe but they aren't the same type of Primordial as Uranus who was made of countless stars, Nyx and others like her also have no combat based scaling to the aforementioned, surviving the Primordial war doesn't count as a feat in the same way that people who survive a nuclear war wouldn't get city level durability. More importantly, Helios doesn't have to be stronger than Nyx to banish her the specifics of how he does this are never given. If Helios does banish Nyx with his how power then its an anti feat for her a being a universe tier character as a universal character wouldn't be defeated by anything with below planet level attack potency
Oddly enough this contradicts Uranus making the universe, something is not right here...
The World Pillar holds all creation meaning it holds the universe. All creation was going to be destroyed with its collapse as well
It blatantly doesn't there are clearly stars and they are in the sky refer back the the trailer featuring the Primordials, the God of War world's sun is also seen at one point and it appears to be a perfectly normal star like the one which our Earth orbits around. All creation just refers to the God of War world. The area might be flat even if it is shown as being a regular planet sometimes leading to more contradictions and is clearly not infinite as it has edges regardless where it stops
Also, World Pillar not universe Pillar isn't it not obvious?
A few of the other "feats" that support the "universal" argument Ares made a dimension with a galaxy which is galaxy level and the Furies also made a dimension as well so its not an outlier!
Ares controlled a small part of that location but its not know at all whether ares made that dimension or just transported Kratos to a pre - existing space so neither idea can be confirmed, he also most definitively did not destroy. Secondly the structure of the area shows it is likely not comparable to a true galaxy the supposed stars in the background are far larger than the cosmic formation which moves around. Ares is not confirmed to be galaxy level in any way for the same reason that characters such as Demise, Kaguya and Mundus are not star and multi star system level respectively, on top as not being galaxy level the same way Eddy, Ewan and The Hunter are not star busting, also galaxy level and star busting again. The Furies did make a dimension that contained a small ocean but creation = destruction applies here, they were not weak but not anywhere near close to city to island busting which is what they would be if scaled to their creation feats
The Titan Hyperion having a spear with the weight of the cosmos, this must equate to cosmic levels of strength!
"Weight of the cosmos" is an obvious hyperbole and disregarding that that is still irrelevant as Hyperion's spear isn't actually as heavy as the cosmos it is just strong enough to support its weight, the spear doesn't have a defined weight itself only durability. If the spear was destroyed by a character it would be a feat but that never happened like anyone holding anything up with the spear
The following is Norse related
Ragnarok has dimension level feats. Namely something to do with the Nine Realms
There might be planet level feats there providing Ragnarok plays out according to the prophecy or there might not be. The Nine Realms are all located on Yggdrasil which is a massive tree and none of them have a defined size yet making any feats here hard to quantify for the most part. There was something else about the World Serpent shaking all the realms, key word shaking not destroying or doing major damage to, a heavy nuclear weapon could shake the earth while only being city level in destructive power. Sites like VS Battles themselves have also calculated feats like this at large island level so the above is not nearly as impressive as it seems. What is of more relevance is that none of this has happened yet as there hasn't been a game involving it. The most impressive thing on that list was Sköll and Hati eating both the sun and the moon if said sun is going to be regular sized that is star level, a far cry from universe busting. Due to the nature of the God of War universe and its basing on mythology star level Kratos isn't guaranteed to happen as mythological views of the world and its cosmology were not not the same as how celestial bodies are viewed today
There was potentially something about Odin creating the universe as well but that has no basis at all since there was no scan and more importantly doesn't show destructive capability or durability and it also raises the question of exactly how many characters made the universe in God of War?
As for now though just wait for all of this to happen before re - assessing Kratos's power tier
There is more, the entire original post was too long to be one thing and had to be split into multiple parts as a result the next post will be covering the FTL wank and Kratos's massive collection of speed anti feats.
So in conclusion, I believe Kratos should be Multi-Continent Level or Small Planet level.
Sorry, but I go by literal feats than statements or character boasts.
I have proof here.
[[1]]
There are actual "feats" which support this point of view some users on /r/whowouldwin seem to have. It all comes from here apperantly and anybody who links this Imgur gallery is most definitely wanking God of War so watch out for that. This is at least a step up from using titles to justify power though so props to whoever does this for at least being creative
Regardless "universal" God of War is ludicrously and insanely wanked in addition to being hilariously un - convincing. No other significant VS sites have accepted it for that reason, Comicvine, Narutoforums, Spacebattles and VS Battle Wiki don't have Kratos as universal. Granted the vast majority of Comicvine and Spacebattles wouldn't have seen this stuff like almost all of the users on /r/whowouldwin so there is that to consider. Its definitely safe to say all of the more "reasonable" people and the power players on Narutoforums and VS Battle Wiki disagree with the "upgrades"
The wank itself has been around for at least a year and it is exactly the same content that appeared in SethTheCircleJerk's God of War video. As Seth just sourced his stuff from the people who support "universal" God of War
Currently if there is any one character you're going to want to dislike, no make that hate out of shear unadulterated WANK its going to be Kratos
All the "relevant" claims of "universal" feats There are about 3 of them
Cronus beat Uranus who created the universe
And This is the main one however there are tons of problems with it
1 - The timeline scan is completely un - sourced, it supposed to be from the "official" website for God of War ascension but that doesn't even exist as nothing comes up when it is searched for which makes this very dubious canon at best and that's definitely pushing it. There is no conformation the [2010 comics](http://godofwar.wikia.com/wiki/God_of_War_(comics) are canon either they weren't made by whoever makes the God of War games
2 - It doesn't say exactly how the Titan Cronus beat Uranus his Primordial father. He just "overthrew" him which doesn't have to mean he defeated or killed him its not know how he did this either as its never ever shown or even mentioned in any of the games which are the confirmed canon. Yes The Cycle of Patricide does exist and is a concept in God of War but it only started with Cronus and Zeus. Regardless of that he obviously didn't kill him either because Uranus got his head punched off of his body by Thalassa and exploded into stars which is consistent with with the other Primordials getting damaged or dying to create an aspect of nature or the universe, hes never seen fighting again in the intro either which is also coherent with the only living Primordials left fighting, he was one of the two and possibly three which were shown dying
3 - Just "Giving life" to the universe isn't a universal feat in any way, shape or form in the same way that giving life to a world wouldn't mean creating one, the universe as around before anything in God of War it was just in Chaos. It might be worth noting that none of the other Primordials have universal death feats either they just created more worldly aspects like the mountains or the oceans
4 - The obvious reason
Even if Cronus was confirmed by the canon to have this feat it would be a massively, stupidly and utterly insane outlier to such a massive degree that it would have to be discounted from God of War power scaling for that very reason
Cronus isn't one of the main Primordials ["Main" because there are lots of other characters who are also Primordial but mostly not at all comparable to Uranus and the like in power] who are the only ones with above planetary feats since they were literally made of stars or at least two of them were when they all started fighting each other. Cronus is one of the many characters confined to the main world and would only reasonably scale to everyone else there
To put it into perspective these are the top 6 feats for the "regular" characters in the games focusing on Greek mythology:
Poseidon's death floods Greece and then the world: Country - Continent level, which shows how much water was under his control and bound to him
Persephone's death explosion [however Kratos didn't get hit by this version of it] destroying some of the World Pillar: At least Country probably Continent level as the World Pillar was resistant enough to hold up the crust of the Earth just like Atlas
Atlas lifting the world's crust: Continent level possibly higher
Atlas's hammer having the weight of the world: Multi Continent level, presumably not the planet as "planet" was never specified and Atlas holds the World Pillar
The Death of the gods doomed the world: Possibly Continent - Multi Continent level, depending on how much the world was actually affected
Helios's power being able to destroy the world: Multi Continental, the statement is self explanatory its also a key plot point in Chains of Olympus. It would be true that Helios's power has no specified time frame in which it can destroy the world so its just base line for that level of power
The above definitely scale to Kratos and Cronus specifically although neither are as strong physically strong as Atlas and would be incapable of razing the surface of a planet because they both do not have an attack with a wide enough radius to do it even though they are on approximately the same power tier as Helios
According to power scaling Kratos is much more powerful than many people think he is on here and /r/whowouldwin when God of War's feats are taken at face value and interpreted fairly this is going to get me called a Kratos wanker its inevitable, Kratos's power tier is a subject of mass controversy, isn't he considered small city level to possibly mountain level or something? Or even anti jerked into street tier street tier when normal humans in God of War can be considered "street tier" and the weakest game version of Kratos could flip over streets
But as has been mentioned before no planet level feats are present and two of the above only count for lifting strength. A multi continental character [Cronus] defeating a multi stellar Primordial is just as well outlier - ish as...
Post Crisis Superman stopping an attack that could destroy half the galaxy and destroying something that could blow away the entire milky way
Further more...
Spiderman is not S tier, this one doesn't require context its just too obvious
There is also no way that the incredible Hulk can shake the multiverse and be infinite according to an omniscient being
Absolutely none of the above don't count as outlier's, Cronus's statement is an outlier for the same reason they are. The in question timeline itself is also likely not canon at all in the first place unless there is evidence otherwise, rule 5 and burden of proof
Everything here is not a case of "AOE", "PIS" or "Ki Control" either there is nothing at all which suggests a lack of "AOE" outside of the already botched scaling to Uranus. In fact Helios's sun power was considered unfathomable by just about everyone in chains of Olympus such as Atlas, Athena and others because it could "destroy the world" granted Helios wasn't the most powerful Olympian but all of them and all of the other god like beings are universal according to God of War wankers. Universal characters would not be below world destroying power and ironically enough his "AOE" is also higher than multi continental because his domain is the sun. Just in case someone tries... Helios isn't star level he just has sun powers "DAE"? Star level calculators and solar panels? Not at all
Helios banishes Nyx everyday making him universal because Nyx is a Primordial goddess who helped create the universe
Nyx has no feats at all the "proof" of Nyx being "universal" comes from another un - sourced website which makes this invalid already. She may be a Primordial being but so are lots of other characters like Gaia, The Furies, The Sisters of Fate and Thanatos who would all be classed as "Primordial" in the God of War universe but they aren't the same type of Primordial as Uranus who was made of countless stars, Nyx and others like her also have no combat based scaling to the aforementioned, surviving the Primordial war doesn't count as a feat in the same way that people who survive a nuclear war wouldn't get city level durability. More importantly, Helios doesn't have to be stronger than Nyx to banish her the specifics of how he does this are never given. If Helios does banish Nyx with his how power then its an anti feat for her a being a universe tier character as a universal character wouldn't be defeated by anything with below planet level attack potency
Oddly enough this contradicts Uranus making the universe, something is not right here...
The World Pillar holds all creation meaning it holds the universe. All creation was going to be destroyed with its collapse as well
It blatantly doesn't there are clearly stars and they are in the sky refer back the the trailer featuring the Primordials, the God of War world's sun is also seen at one point and it appears to be a perfectly normal star like the one which our Earth orbits around. All creation just refers to the God of War world. The area might be flat even if it is shown as being a regular planet sometimes leading to more contradictions and is clearly not infinite as it has edges regardless where it stops
Also, World Pillar not universe Pillar isn't it not obvious?
A few of the other "feats" that support the "universal" argument Ares made a dimension with a galaxy which is galaxy level and the Furies also made a dimension as well so its not an outlier!
Ares controlled a small part of that location but its not know at all whether ares made that dimension or just transported Kratos to a pre - existing space so neither idea can be confirmed, he also most definitively did not destroy. Secondly the structure of the area shows it is likely not comparable to a true galaxy the supposed stars in the background are far larger than the cosmic formation which moves around. Ares is not confirmed to be galaxy level in any way for the same reason that characters such as Demise, Kaguya and Mundus are not star and multi star system level respectively, on top as not being galaxy level the same way Eddy, Ewan and The Hunter are not star busting, also galaxy level and star busting again. The Furies did make a dimension that contained a small ocean but creation = destruction applies here, they were not weak but not anywhere near close to city to island busting which is what they would be if scaled to their creation feats
The Titan Hyperion having a spear with the weight of the cosmos, this must equate to cosmic levels of strength!
"Weight of the cosmos" is an obvious hyperbole and disregarding that that is still irrelevant as Hyperion's spear isn't actually as heavy as the cosmos it is just strong enough to support its weight, the spear doesn't have a defined weight itself only durability. If the spear was destroyed by a character it would be a feat but that never happened like anyone holding anything up with the spear
The following is Norse related
Ragnarok has dimension level feats. Namely something to do with the Nine Realms
There might be planet level feats there providing Ragnarok plays out according to the prophecy or there might not be. The Nine Realms are all located on Yggdrasil which is a massive tree and none of them have a defined size yet making any feats here hard to quantify for the most part. There was something else about the World Serpent shaking all the realms, key word shaking not destroying or doing major damage to, a heavy nuclear weapon could shake the earth while only being city level in destructive power. Sites like VS Battles themselves have also calculated feats like this at large island level so the above is not nearly as impressive as it seems. What is of more relevance is that none of this has happened yet as there hasn't been a game involving it. The most impressive thing on that list was Sköll and Hati eating both the sun and the moon if said sun is going to be regular sized that is star level, a far cry from universe busting. Due to the nature of the God of War universe and its basing on mythology star level Kratos isn't guaranteed to happen as mythological views of the world and its cosmology were not not the same as how celestial bodies are viewed today
There was potentially something about Odin creating the universe as well but that has no basis at all since there was no scan and more importantly doesn't show destructive capability or durability and it also raises the question of exactly how many characters made the universe in God of War?
As for now though just wait for all of this to happen before re - assessing Kratos's power tier
There is more, the entire original post was too long to be one thing and had to be split into multiple parts as a result the next post will be covering the FTL wank and Kratos's massive collection of speed anti feats.
So in conclusion, I believe Kratos should be Multi-Continent Level or Small Planet level.
Sorry, but I go by literal feats than statements or character boasts.
