Gin Ichimaru's Bankai Ability - Buto Renjin.

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Of course we can equate Soul Society to Earth. They are parallels to one another, two sides of the same coin. And Soul Society functions very similarly to Earth. The fact that it has a day - night cycle that lasts the same time as Earth's? The fact that people can grow crops identical to those in Earth? The fact that it has a blue sky as a result of the atmosphere, and similar vegetation and geological structures? That it has a moon orbiting it?

Soul Society is exactly like Earth as far as planets go.

You are also misconstructing my argument. I am pointing out the incongruence in simultaneously pushing for utilizing real world earth averages as far as things in Soul Society, but also pushing for the "It's not Earth, we can't use assumptions" when I point how illogical the SK Palace being 9 million kilometers above the ground is.

Except... It is. Using Ichigo's reactions in one scene and then applying it to his travel speed in another scene is calc-stacking.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Of course we can equate Soul Society to Earth. They are parallels to one another, two sides of the same coin.

There are three. It's Hueco Mundo, The World of the Living and Soul Society. They are all different from each other as well. You can't physically travel between the three and they are separated from each other by another dimension called the Dangai.

The fact that it has a day - night cycle that lasts the same time as Earth's?

That's false. It's "sunny" in the Soul King Palace all the time and it's been sunny in the Soul King Palace when it would be night in Seireitei.

Hueco Mundo, which is part of the trinity with The World of the Living and Soul Society is always night.

The fact that people can grow crops identical to those in Earth?

???

The fact that it has a blue sky as a result of the atmosphere, and similar vegetation and geological structures? That it has a moon orbiting it?

You know what else is like that, Yukio's dimensions. But we don't equate it cause it's a Dimension. Why are you doing it to the dimension of Soul Society?

Soul Society is exactly like Earth as far as planets go.

One is inhabited with living people, the other is inhabited by souls. One is a dimension, the other is not. One has dimensions inside of it, the other does not. One has things defying physics and logic. One is made of matter, the other is a different type of matter.

No.

You are also misconstructing my argument. I am pointing out the incongruence in simultaneously pushing for utilizing real world earth averages as far as things in Soul Society, but also pushing for the "It's not Earth, we can't use assumptions" when I point how illogical the SK Palace being 9 million kilometers above the ground is.

It's illogical to you because for some reason you think Soul Society is a planet, which is not true if you just read the manga. It's a different dimension that behaves differently from Earth and has different traits. You also keep forgetting that these "parallel worlds" include Hueco Mundo. All three behave differently from each other and we are told Hueco Mundo and Soul Society are separate dimensions.

Except... It is. Using Ichigo's reactions in one scene and then applying it to his travel speed in another scene is calc-stacking.

That's not calc stacking, that's just lying.

But no one is using Ichigo's reactions to apply to his travel speed. Ichigo has explicit reactions from an explicit in-verse thing with a set speed. There are characters that are too fast for Ichigo to react to, then Ichigo receives a power up and is faster than them.

That does not fit our definition of Calc Stacking.

 

[Zzsax]

ss and earth are very different,similar but very different.especially if you consider the floating city hundreds of miles in the atmosphere.if the soul king palace was so close, many of our MHS soul society residents will be going up there by the foot for vacation and wont need a rocket or portal or Quincy light beam transport thingy

 

[Zzsax]

Oh don't forget soul king palace has a sea, how do you equate that with the real world??????????

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I understand that the cycle of souls follows three worlds in Bleach, that is irrelevant to my actual argument. It just feels like you're trying to shift the focus of the discussion. So let me drag it back to it:

Other than the fact that it is inhabitted by souls - Which themselves behave exactly like normal humans in Soul Society to the point it's not even funny - Soul Society follows similar logic to Earth. Soul Society is inside a dimension, just like Earth. Hell these souls have molecules, cells and DNA, and can age and reproduce.

And it does have a Day - Night Cycle, just because we don't see the SK Palace at night doesn't mean it can't be night there. The fact that it is under a blue sky, with a breathable atmosphere and on the cloud area indicates it isn't nearly as high as you suggest.

"But no one is using Ichigo's reactions to apply to his travel speed. Ichigo has explicit reactions from an explicit in-verse thing with a set speed. There are characters that are too fast for Ichigo to react to, then Ichigo receives a power up and is faster than them."

That actually fits the definition of Calc-stacking exactly.

You can apply that as a feat for Ichigo's speed, of course, but then taking that to apply to his flying speed in a completely different scene is calc-stacking. Assuming a speed comparable to one feat in another is calc-stacking.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

many of our MHS soul society residents will be going up there by the foot for vacation and wont need a rocket or portal or Quincy light beam transport thingy

Or they can't fly at MHS for long stretches of time. Have you considered that you are distorting the Bleach world to make it fit with the calcs here?

This is exactly why we have rules against calc-stacking. You don't take a calc and then extrapolate the world around it. You take the world and then calc the feat.

 

[Zzsax]

Or they can't fly at MHS for long stretches of time. Have you considered that you are distorting the Bleach world to make it fit with the calcs here?

This is exactly why we have rules against calc-stacking. You don't take a calc and then extrapolate the world around it. You take the world and then calc the feat.

Ah but they can if they want to,Youruichi used shunpo for travel speed to carry ichigo to the outskirts of seireitei,back in SS arc, she call at it about 100 steps or so.

While we are at it ichigo has indeed outpaced Gin zanpakutou, not the extension,but he outpaced the retraction which was the same speed,that is the opening where he landed the getsuga tensho on Gin's face.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You do know that Shunpo isn't particularly fast or quantifiable beyond "Character suddenly dashes fast", right? Besides, using a low-level technique like Shunpo to argue that characters can keep flying at Mach 1,000+ for 9 hours straight is a massive leap in logic.

Gin's Zanpakutou isn't Mach 500 either so I don't know how that is an argument. I take Gin's own word over a databook that Kubo may or may not have written.

 

[Zzsax]

@Matthew Also am not distorting the bleach world to fit calcs here,what an accusation,i brought this exact topic months ago,SS and earth are parallels but are quite different too. You can't equate every aspect, hueco mundo is part of that parallel too and is locked in a constant night,which doesn't go well with physics of earth.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I understand that the cycle of souls follows three worlds in Bleach, that is irrelevant to my actual argument. It just feels like you're trying to shift the focus of the discussion. So let me drag it back to it:

No, it's to show you how different they all are.

Other than the fact that it is inhabitted by souls - Which themselves behave exactly like normal humans in Soul Society to the point it's not even funny - Soul Society follows similar logic to Earth. Soul Society is inside a dimension, just like Earth. Hell these souls have molecules, cells and DNA, and can age and reproduce.

Incorrect, Soul Society is not inside a Dimension, it is a Dimension. Souls do not behave at all like normal humans. They do are not made of the same molecules, they are explicitly of different matter, Reishi and Kishi. They do age and can reproduce, but did you forget we have people ranging from 112 years old to 2000 years old and people like Ichibei who is over a million years old? They aren't the same.

And it does have a Day - Night Cycle, just because we don't see the SK Palace at night doesn't mean it can't be night there. The fact that it is under a blue sky, with a breathable atmosphere and on the cloud area indicates it isn't nearly as high as you suggest.

Again incorrect, the SK Palace. The SK Palace is directly above the Seireitei, yet when it is night on Seireitei, we are shown that the SK Palace is still sunny. Stop trying to downplay this. It's explained several times how the distance between the two is huge and it is demonstrated several times. We are even told that the SK Palace resides in a different dimension above Seireitei and separated by 72 barriers from Seireitei. The only way in is to open the barriers or have an Oken to physically travel the distance.

That actually fits the definition of Calc-stacking exactly.

Does not since there is no calc being done.

You can apply that as a feat for Ichigo's speed, of course, but then taking that to apply to his flying speed in a completely different scene is calc-stacking. Assuming a speed comparable to one feat in another is calc-stacking.

>Flying speed

Do you mean Shunpo? You know Shunpo is simply amplifying his running speed? They also don't actually fly, they create friction with air through Reishi.

Base Aizen was faster than Ichigo with his hollow mask could react despite Ichigo having reacted to Gin's Buto Renjin.

Base Aizen underwent 4 power ups.

Dangai Ichigo was all around superior to Aizen despite his power ups.

True Shikai Ichigo is at least as fast as Dangai Ichigo.

It took True Shikai Ichigo 9 hours and 15 minutes to go from the SK Palace to Seireitei.

And again, there is no calc being done, we're solely using canon numbers given to us.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"No, it's to show you how different they all are."

Cool, and as far as my major point is concerned Soul Society being in another dimension is wholly irrelevant.

"Incorrect, Soul Society is not inside a Dimension, it is a Dimension."

As far as Bleach works, the human world is also a dimension. Except humans live in Earth. Soul Society has a day - night cycle and a moon. It is a planet within a dimension.

Your point about souls again failed to miss the center of my point. My point is that society and life in Soul Society functions relatively similar to how it does on Earth.

"The SK Palace is directly above the Seireitei, yet when it is night on Seireitei, we are shown that the SK Palace is still sunny. Stop trying to downplay this. It's explained several times how the distance between the two is huge and it is demonstrated several times. We are even told that the SK Palace resides in a different dimension above Seireitei and separated by 72 barriers from Seireitei. The only way in is to open the barriers or have an Oken to physically travel the distance."

I'm not trying to downplay anything, I am pointing out how the logic behind it being as far above as you insist makes no sense at all. And I hope you realize that it existing in another dimension makes the distance unquantifiable.

>Shunpo Part

I hope you realize how you're even sounding. You literally demonstrated calc-stacking and multiplier stacking in this very post. You aren't using "Canon Numbers" to get a speed. You are using a feat in one scene and then applying multipliers through several transformations, and then applying said speed to calculate another feat.

That is Calc-Stacking. Whether you like it or not. I'm sorry, but it's just as it is.

This is all one gigantic extrapolation in order to get FTL Ichigo based on calc-stacking and numbers which don't correlate to the reality of the manga.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

This should have it's own discussion thread.

 

[Zzsax]

You do know that Shunpo isn't particularly fast or quantifiable beyond "Character suddenly dashes fast", right? Besides, using a low-level technique like Shunpo to argue that characters can keep flying at Mach 1,000+ for 9 hours straight is a massive leap in logic.

Gin's Zanpakutou isn't Mach 500 either so I don't know how that is an argument. I take Gin's own word over a databook that Kubo may or may not have written.

If you don't believe the mach 500,then you need to clarify that first cuz this argument won't go anywhere.Ichigo shunpo was quantified at lightning speed in bankai in the databooks,i don't know if you will accept that as well.

Shunpo isn't just a "low-level technique" I don't know where you got that idea.,shunpo is the speed technique of the verse and your speed is as proficient as your shunpo(or related technique).remember correctly ichigo was getting speed stomped till he learnt shunpo.

And travelling at shunpo speeds is a pretty normal thing as the royal guards suggested it to ichigo and knew the amount of time it would normally take.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im gonna have to agrwe with Imade and the majority on this one.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

As far as Bleach works, the human world is also a dimension. Except humans live in Earth. Soul Society has a day - night cycle and a moon. It is a planet within a dimension.

The World of the Living isn't labeled nor separated as a dimension like Hueco Mundo and Soul Society. Soul Society refers to the entire dimension, World of the Living refers to everything in the universe and Earth is a part of it. These dimensions are even separated by a different space/time. They don't even connect since Hueco Mundo lies between Soul Society and The World of the Living. The Dangai also separates them as well and the Gargantua separates Hueco Mundo from The World of the Living.

Your point about souls again failed to miss the center of my point. My point is that society and life in Soul Society functions relatively similar to how it does on Earth.

And you missed my point as I said how they are still different entirely in their being, make up and lives. Humans have to eat and sleep. Souls don't have to unless they exert Reiryoku.

I'm not trying to downplay anything, I am pointing out how the logic behind it being as far above as you insist makes no sense at all. And I hope you realize that it existing in another dimension makes the distance unquantifiable.

It is in another dimension, but you can physically access it if the 72 Barriers are open or if you have an Oken.

It resides directly above Seireitei. It has a never ending day cycle even when Seireitei is experiencing night. You need to stop saying that Soul Society is a planet, SK Palace's existence disproves that.

I hope you realize how you're even sounding. You literally demonstrated calc-stacking and multiplier stacking in this very post. You aren't using "Canon Numbers" to get a speed. You are using a feat in one scene and then applying multipliers through several transformations, and then applying said speed to calculate another feat.

That would be a terrible summary of my statement.

I am using a canon number that Ichigo reacted to. This is a canon number for Ichigo. Aizen directly scales to that canon number per his feat of moving to fast for Ichigo to react to. Dangai Ichigo is then faster than a more powerful Aizen and True Shikai Ichigo is at least as fast as Dangai Ichigo per statements. So we have a canon number for True Shikai Ichigo's speed.

This isn't calc stacking. We are not making any calculations to do this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"The World of the Living isn't labeled nor separated as a dimension like Hueco Mundo and Soul Society. Soul Society refers to the entire dimension, World of the Living refers to everything in the universe and Earth is a part of it."

Okay, and? The Shinigami and the souls from Earth obviously don't occupy the entire of the Spirit World. That much is obvious. They occupy a land that at most can be equal to Earth in size.

"And you missed my point as I said how they are still different entirely in their being, make up and lives. Humans have to eat and sleep. Souls don't have to unless they exert Reiryoku."

And? The world still functions similarly to Earth. Something that can be easily seen from observation alone.

"It is in another dimension, but you can physically access it if the 72 Barriers are open or if you have an Oken."

So what exactly even is your point in argumenting that? That's still an unquantifiable distance.

"It resides directly above Seireitei. It has a never ending day cycle even when Seireitei is experiencing night. You need to stop saying that Soul Society is a planet, SK Palace's existence disproves that."

I think you don't even realize what's going on. You can't simultaneously claim it exists in its own dimension and then say it is just on top of Seireitei but with dimensional barriers. Seems to me that it is more likely part of Soul Society but surrounded by the barriers. Not entirely separate.

"I am using a canon number that Ichigo reacted to. This is a canon number for Ichigo. Aizen directly scales to that canon number per his feat of moving to fast for Ichigo to react to. Dangai Ichigo is then faster than a more powerful Aizen and True Shikai Ichigo is at least as fast as Dangai Ichigo per statements. So we have a canon number for True Shikai Ichigo's speed."

No we don't. We have on feat that we can scale Ichigo too. What you then do is calc and multiply stack until you get a far higher number, something that isn't allowed on this wiki.

 

[Zzsax]

@Matthew

"This is all one gigantic extrapolation in order to get FTL Ichigo based on calc-stacking and numbers which don't correlate to the reality of the manga"


Dude you need to stop with the antagonistic accusations,its not like anyone is trolling,there are proof and statements that support claims,what you need to do is debunk them respectfully with get this..statement and proof,not call BS and accuse people of extrapolation for bias purposes

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, there is no proof or statements that support the suggested claim. What there is is calc-stacking, multiplier-stacking, and assertions which do not match the visuals or world of the manga.

I have been addressing them repeatedly. And I would appreciate that this isn't further derailed with meaningless accusations of bias. The fact of the matter is that not only is the assumptions that are being suggested wrong, they lead to ridiculous outliers.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

How would FTL Ichigo be created from any of this?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

By getting an absurd number for the distance from the palace and Seireitei and then applying that to another feat where a character crosses it relatively fast. This is really the only reason this is being proposed. To further inflate the results of calculations.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

By getting an absurd number for the distance from the palace and Seireitei and then applying that to another feat where a character crosses it relatively fast. This is really the only reason this is being proposed. To further inflate the results of calculations.

I really don't think that what the op was going for.....

 

[Malikobama1]

I came back into this thread expecting more discussion on Gin but it seems to have completely gone off into another topic

 

[Callsign_Castle]

I think we should conclude the Gin Bankai topic and make a new one for that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not the OP, of course. The discussion based on recalculating the distance that derailed the thread.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Okay, and? The Shinigami and the souls from Earth obviously don't occupy the entire of the Spirit World. That much is obvious. They occupy a land that at most can be equal to Earth in size.

Nothing says they occupy the whole entirety of Soul Society. We don't know how big Soul Society is. We only had a statement about an infinite sized layer under Seireitei. We have statements and feats showing the the SK Palace that lies above Seireitei is extremely high up given how it takes so long for things to cross it.

And? The world still functions similarly to Earth. Something that can be easily seen from observation alone.

What I'm showing is that the only thing you basing the similarities on is a day night cycle that doesn't even effect everything in the dimension of the Soul Society per the SK experiencing a different cycle.

The inhabitants are different, they age different, they behave different and they are made different.

It resides in a separate dimension, is separated by another dimension and a different space time dimension.

So what exactly even is your point in argumenting that? That's still an unquantifiable distance.

It is an unquantifiable distance based off just that statement, the reason I keep reiterating it is to show how Soul Society functions differently from The World of the Living. The World of the Living doesn't have dimensions in it.

However, it is quantifiable a distance. We know the barriers can be physically crossed when open to access the dimension of the SK Palace. Ichigo crossed it in 9 hours and 15 mins, an exact time frame. All we need is his speed that we can also get from a canon number.

I think you don't even realize what's going on. You can't simultaneously claim it exists in its own dimension and then say it is just on top of Seireitei but with dimensional barriers. Seems to me that it is more likely part of Soul Society but surrounded by the barriers. Not entirely separate.

That is how Bleach works. It is in it's own dimension that lies above of Seireitei. The dimension can be physically accessed if it's 72 barriers are opened. That is what we are literally told and described.

No we don't. We have on feat that we can scale Ichigo too. What you then do is calc and multiply stack until you get a far higher number, something that isn't allowed on this wiki.

You can calc and multiply stack if you want, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying True Shikai Ichigo is Mach 1000 because he's faster than Aizen when Aizen was faster than Ichigo with his mask could react despite Ichigo with his masking reacting to a Mach 1000 object.

To multiplying, no calcs, no stacking. Simple as that.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ok, so do we all agree that Buto Renjin is mach 1000 and 6-C? If so, someone close this and we can make a CRT for the SK palace distance.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Nothing says they occupy the whole entirety of Soul Society. We don't know how big Soul Society is."

So you admitted that your own point about Soul Society being a dimension isn't really meaningful to any degree. Good to know.

"What I'm showing is that the only thing you basing the similarities on is a day night cycle that doesn't even effect everything in the dimension of the Soul Society per the SK experiencing a different cycle."

Does it really? I've yet to see any evidence of that.

"The inhabitants are different, they age different, they behave different and they are made different."

Cool, but they still age, and that is wholly meaningless to the point at hand.

"It resides in a separate dimension, is separated by another dimension and a different space time dimension."

Cool, so what? It is still parallel to Earth and functions fairly similar.

"It is an unquantifiable distance based off just that statement, the reason I keep reiterating it is to show how Soul Society functions differently from The World of the Living."

Which doesn't help your argument at all.

"However, it is quantifiable a distance. We know the barriers can be physically crossed when open to access the dimension of the SK Palace. Ichigo crossed it in 9 hours and 15 mins, an exact time frame. All we need is his speed that we can also get from a canon number."

Yes. We can calculate the speed using things such as low-level Shinigami moving faster than sound. We cannot calculate it using Calc-stacking.

"You can calc and multiply stack if you want, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying True Shikai Ichigo is Mach 1000 because he's faster than Aizen when Aizen was faster than Ichigo with his mask could react despite Ichigo with his masking reacting to a Mach 1000 object."

Sure, but applying that speed feat to another scene isn't allowed. It's the definition of calc-stacking, even if there is no calc in this case. This is not how things work here in the wiki.

 

[Zzsax]

"I think you don't even realize what's going on. You can't simultaneously claim it exists in its own dimension and then say it is just on top of Seireitei but with dimensional barriers. Seems to me that it is more likely part of Soul Society but surrounded by the barriers. Not entirely separate."

This is true they aren't separate, things fall directly at SS from SK palace,but it is a tremendous staggering distance as hitsugaya was sure if Gerard fell he would obliterate all of soul society..

This is where real world physics just fail completely ,Soul society is a fantasy compared to the real world,apparently there are seas In the sky that's impossible, the atmosphere stretches for millions of miles impossible too,riduculous even, yeah but it's fact and that is something we can't deny

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I am fine with this being closed and the topic moved into another proper CRT.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The atmosphere of Soul Society doesn't stretch for millions of miles. That is based on a headcanon calculation, not on an actual factual element of the series. The fact that it is being pushed so much boggles the mind.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ok, so do we all agree that Buto Renjin is mach 1000 and 6-C? If so, someone close this and we can make a CRT for the SK palace distance.

I have no opinion on the OP post.

I am against making a CRT for the SK Palace things. Calc Stacking is still Calc Stacking regardless of how you cut it or redefine it.

 

[Zzsax]

Making another thread might come back to the million dollar question "if Gin mach 500 statement is true or not"?,which will then lead to another CRT about Gin,and then another,ugh I can see the circle

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Zzsax

I think I see the circle forming.

 

[Zzsax]

The atmosphere of Soul Society doesn't stretch for millions of miles. That is based on a headcanon calculation, not on an actual factual element of the series. The fact that it is being pushed so much boggles the mind.

Em actually my good Sir,your denial of fact is based on headcanon that "SS must obey all the same physics and geography as earth",even if it's a separate dimension and visuals and statements begs otherwise

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But it visibly obeys most of the same laws of physics. Floating cities / continents are indeed fantastical, but they don't contradict my point. It is still a world with a day - night cycle, breathable atmosphere, similar vegetation and geological structure, a blue sy, and an orbiting moon.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

So you admitted that your own point about Soul Society being a dimension isn't really meaningful to any degree. Good to know.

If you had continued to read more, you would have seen by explanation in that section supporting it.

Does it really? I've yet to see any evidence of that.

It had just turned night in Seireitei during the second invasion.

It was sunny when Ichigo left the SK Palace.

Characters in the SK Palace thought it turned to night out of nowhere (Shunsui's Bankai did this), indicating it was day.]

Immediately after Shunsui's short fight we see it's night in Seireitei.

Cool, but they still age, and that is wholly meaningless to the point at hand.

They age differently, which is my point. It is different.

Cool, so what? It is still parallel to Earth and functions fairly similar.

How is it parallel? The World of the Living, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo's are the three parts that made the original world.

They each are different from the other and separated. Soul Society and The World of the Living are the furthest apart even. Hueco Mundo lies between them and the Dangai separates them from different space and time. You're trying to base Soul Society being a planet despite the massive separation and difference.

Which doesn't help your argument at all.

You can think that, but it does show difference.

Yes. We can calculate the speed using things such as low-level Shinigami moving faster than sound. We cannot calculate it using Calc-stacking.

Thankfully I'm not calc stacking.

Sure, but applying that speed feat to another scene isn't allowed. It's the definition of calc-stacking, even if there is no calc in this case. This is not how things work here in the wiki.

I am not applying it to another scene. I'm using a canon speed feat that scales to characters and using one of the scaled character to make a calc. I am not applying it to a scene, it happens in every scene with this character since it's a canon scaling speed feat to them.

No calc needed, no multipliers needed and no stacking needed. Doesn't break the rules in the Calc Stacking page neither.

But we should get this in another thread. The main topic was already accepted.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"How is it parallel? The World of the Living, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo's are the three parts that made the original world.

They each are different from the other and separated. Soul Society and The World of the Living are the furthest apart even. Hueco Mundo lies between them and the Dangai separates them from different space and time. You're trying to base Soul Society being a planet despite the massive separation and difference."

I don't think you understand my point. I am saying that the part of Soul Society where Seireitei is and the Shinigami and human souls live is a planet. I'm not saying that there isn't part of a larger dimension.

"I am not applying it to another scene. I'm using a canon speed feat that scales to characters and using one of the scaled character to make a calc. I am not applying it to a scene, it happens in every scene with this character since it's a canon scaling speed feat to them.

No calc needed, no multipliers needed and no stacking needed. Doesn't break the rules in the Calc Stacking page neither."

No, it still absolutely qualifies as calc stacking. Picking a speed based on a feat and then applying to an unrelated feat is calc-stacking. It doesn't matter if you are using a stated number or a canonical speed. That isn't allowed per our regulations.

Let me put it in this way: If lightning speed was the result of a calculation, I don't think anyone would argue with your proposal being calc-stacking. It being a canon number doesn't change anything. It is still a character's speed which you are applying to Ichigo, and then after a ton of multipliers using the even larger number for an unrelated scene.

Look at the wiki. This isn't allowed anywhere. Bleach isn't subject to special treatment.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I don't think you understand my point. I am saying that the part of Soul Society where Seireitei is and the Shinigami and human souls live is a planet. I'm not saying that there isn't part of a larger dimension.

Soul Society is the whole dimension. Seireitei resides in that dimension. There is no mention of planet ever. I've even provided scans showing that Seireitei experienced a different day and night cycle to the SK Palace despite the SK Palace being directly above the Seireitei.

No, it still absolutely qualifies as calc stacking. Picking a speed based on a feat and then applying to an unrelated feat is calc-stacking. It doesn't matter if you are using a stated number or a canonical speed. That isn't allowed per our regulations.

You're literally saying a character isn't as fast as he canonically has shown to be. No calc was needed when Ichigo performed those speed feats, they were canon feats. They show how fast he moves in canon. Now you're saying he doesn't move that fast in another scene.

Nope, Matthew. You can think that, but that's wrong.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Soul Society is the whole dimension. Seireitei resides in that dimension. There is no mention of planet ever."

Cool, but by mere observation we can deduce that they are located on a planet. As I keep telling you repeatedly.

"I've even provided scans showing that Seireitei experienced a different day and night cycle to the SK Palace despite the SK Palace being directly above the Seireitei."

Good thing I'm talking about where Seireitei is.

"You're literally saying a character isn't as fast as he canonically has shown to be."

What is so bad about this? Just because a character is canonically that fast in one scene does not allow us to apply that speed to every scene. This is basic, no?

"No calc was needed when Ichigo performed those speed feats, they were canon feats. They show how fast he moves in canon. Now you're saying he doesn't move that fast in another scene."

You keep using the word canon, but you don't understand how calculations work. Just because a character dodges a bullet in one scene doesn't mean we can apply that speed to every single scene.

You can think it isn't Calc Stacking, IMade, but it absolutely is.

There's a reason using Lightning-speed for this feat was never accepted in the wiki before you were around.