Bleach Abilities Addition (Shinigami/Gotei 13)

[Deceived3596]

….. TK? Explosion manip? Aizen has both of those so why not them instead of gravity manip in this situation which you can’t actually prove he used against Tosen.

Aizen only has shown those abilities whiles in his Hogyoku transformed states so their no reason to believe he would've have them when he's in one of his weaker forms, especially Explosion Manipulation since he only gains that in his 5th fusion against Dangai Ichigo.

But if you agree that Aizen can use his Telekinesis offensively then i'll be willing to drop this point since Telekinesis is just a subset of what Gravity Manipulation is and such would have comparable properties to each other including the applying of pressure which is my main evidence with the Gravity Manipulation point.

Tatsuki also collapsed by Yammy, are we saying he also has gravity manip and not because her soul was being erased? Cuz she had the same breathing issues as Grimm.

The Tatsuki comparison between Aizen and Yammy aren't analogous to each other since the Yammy situations has a lot more factors compounding it in comparison to Aizen.

1: Yammy doesn't have prior feats that point to him having Gravity Manipulation while Aizen does with the Grimmjow and Tosen feats.

2: The reason why Tatsuki was forced to the ground in the Yammy situation was explain to us to be two specific things, Yammy's Gonzu draining most of her soul and Yammy's Reiatsu crushing her soul while Aizen's is up to interpretation since no direct statement is made to us about what Aizen was doing to Tatsuki.

Yeah that doesn't disprove what i'm asserting since...yaknow applying increase pressure onto someone that hasn't experienced that level of pressure would massively hamper their breathing since that pressure is also pressing onto their lungs.

Calling it gravity manip is headcanon when what happens can be explained by what soul crush already has.

Just because Reiatsu on this Wiki has a couple accepted effects doesn't mean what i'm asserting is more headcanon since what is shown in the Manga has more priority then what is accepted on this website.

No. That is not what I said at all. Grimmjow had trouble breathing and struggled to keep standing, hence his shaky stance which caused his clothes to move.

Bruh their is no way you can watch that video and come back to me and say the reason why Grimmjow fell was because he ran out of breath. He's physically trying to force himself to keep standing against Aizen's Reiatsu but he can't since the pressure of it was too much hence why he felled. the reason he is having trouble breathing is because he's experiencing a high level of pressure then what his body is used to which is backed up by the fact of Grimmjow physically fighting against Aizen's Reiatsu.

Aizen using KS is not an assumption when he all but tells us that he was using it the whole time. He could have done anything with that shit up when no one there can actually tell what he was doing. Him using Hado 1 is only one assumption and doesn’t require the use of KS as its invisible (just like your “gravity manip”) and we know that people can use Kido without saying anything such as when Hachi repaired Tsubaki, Yama knocking out Momo, Unohana healing anyone etc etc.

Hell, since you want to use the anime for proof despite it being secondary canon, another knock against it being RC is that we don’t see the visual effect of RC that the anime always gives us when Tosen dies

It is an assumption in that situation since Aizen only declares that statement when he's fighting against the entire Gotei 13 and the Vizards while in the Tosen situation he was only fighting against Shinji, Again that takes more of an assumption then what i'm assuming since Aizen wasn't actively looking nor pointing at Tosen and Sho has a small shock wave that is created when it strikes something and that shock wave wasn't present when Tosen died. So with all the available evidence we have with this feat it points to my assertion being more correct then your assertion. Never was a contention i brought up so that doesn't matter to the conversation.

That's such an none-point i can't actually believe you brought that up. Just because their wasn't a special effect of Reiatsu Crush in Tosen death doesn't denote that the feat wasn't used with Reiatsu Crush given the more significant evidence we have that points to Aizen's Reiatsu being the culprit.

Sounds good to me though it should be limited since he can’t exactly make them feel anything else.

Alright i agree.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Aizen only has shown those abilities whiles in his Hogyoku transformed states so their no reason to believe he would've have them when he's in one of his weaker forms, especially Explosion Manipulation since he only gains that in his 5th fusion against Dangai Ichigo.

His explosion manip is from throwing a ball that blows stuff up, he has multiple Kido that blow stuff up.

But if you agree that Aizen can use his Telekinesis offensively then i'll be willing to drop this point since Telekinesis is just a subset of what Gravity Manipulation is and such would have comparable properties to each other including the applying of pressure which is my main evidence with the Gravity Manipulation point.

Telekinesis like Sho.

The Tatsuki comparison between Aizen and Yammy aren't analogous to each other since the Yammy situations has a lot more factors compounding it in comparison to Aizen.

1: Yammy doesn't have prior feats that point to him having Gravity Manipulation while Aizen does with the Grimmjow and Tosen feats.

The bolded is a hella weird thing for you to argue when you said it wasn’t needed when I brought it up. Grimmjow isn’t gravity manip and neither is Tosen.

2: The reason why Tatsuki was forced to the ground in the Yammy situation was explain to us to be two specific things, Yammy's Gonzu draining most of her soul and Yammy's Reiatsu crushing her soul while Aizen's is up to interpretation since no direct statement is made to us about what Aizen was doing to Tatsuki.

Why would we need a statement for Aizen’s when we have already been told and shown what RC does 3 times before?

Yeah that doesn't disprove what i'm asserting since...yaknow applying increase pressure onto someone that hasn't experienced that level of pressure would massively hamper their breathing since that pressure is also pressing onto their lungs.

Or his soul is getting crushed which causes breathing issues is why he struggles to breath, something that makes people struggle to stand up? You are starting with a conclusion and saying that since some stuff can fit what you want, your conclusion is true rather than starting with what we are told and shown and making a conclusion based on that. Can it be gravity manip? Sure. But is it? That’s something you have to prove, something that is made all the more difficult by using scenes where an alternative explanation exists that already fits what we know RC does for certain.

Just because Reiatsu on this Wiki has a couple accepted effects doesn't mean what i'm asserting is more headcanon since what is shown in the Manga has more priority then what is accepted on this website.

See above

Bruh their is no way you can watch that video and come back to me and say the reason why Grimmjow fell was because he ran out of breath. He's physically trying to force himself to keep standing against Aizen's Reiatsu but he can't since the pressure of it was too much hence why he felled. the reason he is having trouble breathing is because he's experiencing a high level of pressure then what his body is used to which is backed up by the fact of Grimmjow physically fighting against Aizen's Reiatsu.

Yeah I can. Just did

When people are out of breath or dizzy or what have you, they can struggle to stay upright or stumble around as a result. Same thing easily applies here.

It is an assumption in that situation since Aizen only declares that statement when he's fighting against the entire Gotei 13 and the Vizards while in the Tosen situation he was only fighting against Shinji,

Shinji literally asks when he started using KS and he asks “Since when we’re you under the impression I wasn’t?” This directly implies that he was using it the whole time. The actual assumption is assuming that he only used it in the two situations he told us he was when he nigh verbatim says he was using it all the time.

Again that takes more of an assumption then what i'm assuming since Aizen wasn't actively looking nor pointing at Tosen and Sho has a small shock wave that is created when it strikes something and that shock wave wasn't present when Tosen died. So with all the available evidence we have with this feat it points to my assertion being more correct then your assertion. Never was a contention i brought up so that doesn't matter to the conversation.

Byakuya wasn’t looking either? I don’t recall us ever seeing his hand either so you can’t say he was or wasn’t pointing. As for the shockwave, Tosen exploded in blood, aka there was a shockwave. If it was gravity manip, all of Tosen would just splat on the ground and not explode upwards in a fountain where the gravity is supposedly pressing down on him.

That's such an none-point i can't actually believe you brought that up. Just because their wasn't a special effect of Reiatsu Crush in Tosen death doesn't denote that the feat wasn't used with Reiatsu Crush given the more significant evidence we have that points to Aizen's Reiatsu being the culprit.

You’re the one arguing stuff in the anime that wasn’t in the manga so why can’t I? And what “significant evidence”? If it was so significant, everyone would agree with you, there would be no need for all the disagreements when all the people disagreeing are known Bleach supporters, some being proponents for even higher scaling of their abilities.

Alright i agree.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Is 'Pressure Manipulation' a thing on this wiki, since what Reiatsu Crush does is more like...or rather literally applying pressure onto something rather than say specifically gravity manipulation. And then, Reiatsu translates to spiritual pressure so....

 

[Tarang123]

Is 'Pressure Manipulation' a thing on this wiki, since what Reiatsu Crush does is more like...or rather literally applying pressure onto something rather than say specifically gravity manipulation. And then, Reiatsu translates to spiritual pressure so....

That’s just aura

 

[Deceived3596]

His explosion manip is from throwing a ball that blows stuff up, he has multiple Kido that blow stuff up.

Yeah. Those abilities have specific visual effects that aren't present in the Tosen feat so it would, again be another assumption that we don't have to make.

Telekinesis like Sho.

Sho isn't Telekinesis, it doesn't apply pressure but rather shoots out a ball of Reiryoku that deals concussive damage.

The bolded is a hella weird thing for you to argue when you said it wasn’t needed when I brought it up. Grimmjow isn’t gravity manip and neither is Tosen.

How is it weird? my entire argument is just these feats are most likely this ability and i use supplemental evidence to back up the interpretation, me asserting that Yammy doesn't have prior feats that could logically be argued for Gravity Manipulation doesn't contradict what i'm asserting. You're are misremembering what i'm arguing. They are and you haven't logically debunked that.

Why would we need a statement for Aizen’s when we have already been told and shown what RC does 3 times before?

Never made the argument that you need a statement, that's a strawman. You haven't been told anything about Aizen's Reiatsu except for the fact it possesses Existence Erasure characteristics and what has been shown can be argued for something else entirely so again that doesn't debunk what i'm asserting.

Or his soul is getting crushed which causes breathing issues is why he struggles to breath, something that makes people struggle to stand up? You are starting with a conclusion and saying that since some stuff can fit what you want, your conclusion is true rather than starting with what we are told and shown and making a conclusion based on that. Can it be gravity manip? Sure. But is it? That’s something you have to prove, something that is made all the more difficult by using scenes where an alternative explanation exists that already fits what we know RC does for certain.

It does but not to that extent, even the difference between a Byakuya that was actively flexing his Reiatsu and a Rukia that had her spiritual powers constantly sealed and lowered by Seki-Seki stone didn't caused Rukia to act like Grimmjow. Compare people struggling to stand up because of extreme exhaustion to Grimmjow's case and it's not even comparable. I'm not starting with a conclusion i'm looking through the feats, analyzing what the feats could mean then exploring what categorization on this Wiki would most like fall under them feats then arguing from that conclusion. Which I've already proven, What's already ACCEPTED on this Wiki not what you know for certain, Big difference.

See above

Already addressed.

Yeah I can. Just did

When people are out of breath or dizzy or what have you, they can struggle to stay upright or stumble around as a result. Same thing easily applies here.

How dare you

Not how Gimmjow struggled, People who struggle to stand because of Exhaustion usually don't even struggle since they don't have the energy to do so even when they do their usually very shaky which Grimmjow isn't, their breathing heavily which Grimmjow isn't he's moaning in pain and They usually don't make massive physical expressions while Grimmjow does. There's more but you get the point.

Shinji literally asks when he started using KS and he asks “Since when we’re you under the impression I wasn’t?” This directly implies that he was using it the whole time. The actual assumption is assuming that he only used it in the two situations he told us he was when he nigh verbatim says he was using it all the time.

Yeah the whole time as IN THEIR FIGHT Not when he's actively not fighting against either Sajin and Hisagi, dude wasn't even paying any attention to them, he only did for a second to kill Tosen. No the actual assumption is assuming that Aizen for some reason within that moment was actively manipulating their perception into seeing something different in his attack when he doesn't ******* care how people see his attacks as shown in his fights against the Gotei 13 and The Bleach Sannin and then assuming he was used Kido which doesn't make sense since the hand that was free was his right hand which wasn't facing them. like you're literally arguing Aizen ******* put his hand behind back on some cowboy shit and then shot a Kido that dosen't look like any Kido shown in Bleach.

Also within the official color version of Bleach their's a purple haze around the sky when Tosen dies which looks exactly what Aizen's Reiatsu looks like (Sorry for the boo-boo quality second scan)

Byakuya wasn’t looking either? I don’t recall us ever seeing his hand either so you can’t say he was or wasn’t pointing. As for the shockwave, Tosen exploded in blood, aka there was a shockwave. If it was gravity manip, all of Tosen would just splat on the ground and not explode upwards in a fountain where the gravity is supposedly pressing down on him.

Aizen isn't Byakuya, We literally see his right hand and it isn't pointing at Tosen so that's another assumption you're taking. No... just no that doesn't prove their was a shock wave their wasn't a shock wave when Yhwach hit Ichibe with Telekinesis but guess what he still exploded so that doesn't work. Not if he just hit Tosen with enough Reiatsu to kill him which is what he did.

You’re the one arguing stuff in the anime that wasn’t in the manga so why can’t I? And what “significant evidence”? If it was so significant, everyone would agree with you, there would be no need for all the disagreements when all the people disagreeing are known Bleach supporters, some being proponents for even higher scaling of their abilities.

Never said you can just said it was a none-point and explained why it was a none-point, This is just plain wrong there's significant evidence that the world is round but Millions of people still assume it to be flat, just because i personally believe it to be significant evidence doesn't mean people would assume to be as well, Just because their known doesn't hold any volition on if their right or wrong and no they don't, none of these guys would argue the shit i'm going to argue in that Reiatsu thread (things like Passive Conceptual Manipulation) or in later threads regarding other abilities (like Adult Toshiro having Conceptual freezing).

 

[Rez]

Ok deconstruction for gin is wrong dissolving cells doesn't qualify for deconstruction. Deconstruction is the ability to break down matter. You can dissolve cells in real world but you can't break down matter not without proper nuclear reaction anyway even then the results are quite different from the ability. So Gin will qualify for poison manipulation and dura neg

 

[Rez]

Also the memory manipulation for gin should be limited memory manip

 

[Rez]

Ok deconstruction for gin is wrong dissolving cells doesn't qualify for deconstruction. Deconstruction is the ability to break down matter. You can dissolve cells in real world but you can't break down matter not without proper nuclear reaction anyway even then the results are quite different from the ability. So Gin will qualify for poison manipulation and dura neg

Actually corrosion inducement is an ability here so that might work too

 

[Deceived3596]

Ok deconstruction for gin is wrong dissolving cells doesn't qualify for deconstruction. Deconstruction is the ability to break down matter. You can dissolve cells in real world but you can't break down matter not without proper nuclear reaction anyway even then the results are quite different from the ability. So Gin will qualify for poison manipulation and dura neg

Ok explain. Yeah which is what Gin does but go on. That's just plain wrong you don't need a "Proper Nuclear Reaction" to break down matter, like for an example every time you eat something your inherently breaking down that materials matter which would fall under deconstruction. Disagree with only them abilities would qualify.

 

[Deceived3596]

Also the memory manipulation for gin should be limited memory manip

Agree i'll change it.

 

[Rez]

Also aizen's atomisation was previously rejected because it's just an one time statement with no feats

 

[Rez]

Ok explain. Yeah which is what Gin does but go on. That's just plain wrong you don't need a "Proper Nuclear Reaction" to break down matter, like for an example every time you eat something your inherently breaking down that materials matter which would fall under deconstruction. Disagree with only them abilities would qualify.

Gin isn't breaking down matter he is dissolving cells and this falls under corrosion inducement

 

[Rez]

Ok explain. Yeah which is what Gin does but go on. That's just plain wrong you don't need a "Proper Nuclear Reaction" to break down matter, like for an example every time you eat something your inherently breaking down that materials matter which would fall under deconstruction. Disagree with only them abilities would qualify.

Breaking down organic molecules via enzymatic reactions is quite different from deconstruction. Anyway that's kinda irrelevant since gin says it's dissolving cells not breaking them down

 

[Deceived3596]

Also aizen's atomisation was previously rejected because it's just an one time statement with no feats

There's nothing that contradicts that statement so i don't see how it was rejected and can you get this thread were it was "rejected"?.

Gin isn't breaking down matter he is dissolving cells and this falls under corrosion inducement

Even though i disagree with this i'll agree with it just so we can push this thread along faster.

Also do agree with the rest or disagree with some other things.

 

[Rez]

There's nothing that contradicts that statement so i don't see how it was rejected and can you get this thread were it was "rejected"?.

One of the comments in the calc blog you provided for the ability says it

 

[Deceived3596]

One of the comments in the calc blog you provided for the ability says it

There wasn't a thread for that statement but rather a slight argument by Mitch which was walked back on so that doesn't matter.

This is an actual thread that's trying to get it accepted so if their's anyone challenging that then i'll debate them on it which at this point no one has contention on it.

 

[Deceived3596]

Also to anyone reading this is their anyway i can ping mods to look over this thread by any chance? Since their's votes matters the most whether this thread get's accepted or not.

 

[Rez]

Also to anyone reading this is their anyway i can ping mods to look over this thread by any chance? Since their's votes matters the most whether this thread get's accepted or not.

Regular user's can't ping anyone but you can message them on their wall

 

[Deceived3596]

Regular user's can't ping anyone but you can message them on their wall

Alright then i'll do that then.

Also do you agree with everything else or do you have some contention with some other abilities.

 

[Loyd]

you should drop gravity manip tbh what happen to grimmjow already falls under overwhelming pressure or physiological aura(sweating, mental exhaustion etc) and with tosen yes everyone is under KS, aizen has numerous ways of mercifully killing tosen.

also i can only recall reiatsu crush affecting people has a character using reiatsu crush compressed or flatten non material objects thru you're supposed "gravity" manip?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

also i can only recall reiatsu crush affecting people has a character using reiatsu crush compressed or flatten non material objects thru you're supposed "gravity" manip?

there are some scenes where the RC affects stuff around like rocks etc. pulverizing them (like yamaji did)

 

[Loyd]

oh shit do you know the chapter?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

oh shit do you know the chapter?

is when yamaji is confronting shunsui, ukitake and nanao (dont remember the chapter number)

 

[Loyd]

Ill try to find the scan tmr it should be a better justification atleast

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Was asked to comment here though I don't think my input will mean much on some of these but I'll comment anyway.

Aizen

Disagree with Vibration Manipulation for Aizen as it directly states on the page that the character has to create and employ them in a was that doesn't involve just being a side effect of an attack.

I also disagree with Telekinesis and Gravity Manipulation being passive. It's blatantly clear he needs to activate that effect otherwise objects would always be floating around him, and people like Grimmjow would always be feeling the effect of intense gravity.

Also if it was passive, said rocks would be crushed by his passive gravity but instead are suspended in the air. Also it seems people disagree with it even being gravity manipulation.

Shunsui

The passive Sense Manipulation seems more like flowery language in my honest opinion.

Mayuri

I don't really see Body Puppetry. Where does it say it's a holographic clone?

I'm going to leave the Kenpachi stuff to the Bleach experts. Other than what I mentioned above everything else seems fine.

 

[Loyd]

The passive Sense Manipulation seems more like flowery language in my honest opinion.

im pretty sure shunsui reiatsu or aura is known to be cold but its not really combat applicable. or doesn't do much but give the chills.

I don't really see Body Puppetry. Where does it say it's a holographic clone?

this is from the hell arc they are emitted from his drones in the sky, theres actually multiple holographic mayuri's addressing several people at once

 

[LordGriffin1000]

im pretty sure shunsui reiatsu or aura is known to be cold but its not really combat applicable. or doesn't do much but give the chills.

Ok then.

this is from the hell arc they are emitted from his drones in the sky, theres actually multiple holographic mayuri's addressing several people at once

Thanks for the scan, I guess it's fine then.

 

[Deceived3596]

Was asked to comment here though I don't think my input will mean much on some of these but I'll comment anyway.

Thanks.

Aizen

Disagree with Vibration Manipulation for Aizen as it directly states on the page that the character has to create and employ them in a was that doesn't involve just being a side effect of an attack.

I also disagree with Telekinesis and Gravity Manipulation being passive. It's blatantly clear he needs to activate that effect otherwise objects would always be floating around him, and people like Grimmjow would always be feeling the effect of intense gravity.

Also if it was passive, said rocks would be crushed by his passive gravity but instead are suspended in the air. Also it seems people disagree with it even being gravity manipulation.

I actually agree with this i completely didn't see that so i'll remove it.

The reason why i'm arguing it to be passive since it's derived from his Reiatsu which is accepted to be Passive on this wiki and such their effects will be as well but as you already stated they can control weather that effect is applied onto someone or not.

Not necessarily as Bleach Characters can control the effects of their Reiatsu as shown/stated by Aizen.

Shunsui

The passive Sense Manipulation seems more like flowery language in my honest opinion.

Mayuri

I don't really see Body Puppetry. Where does it say it's a holographic clone?

I'm going to leave the Kenpachi stuff to the Bleach experts. Other than what I mentioned above everything else seems fine.

Since these points were already addressed by a another member i'll not addressed them myself.

Thanks for commenting, it really does mean a lot.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The reason why i'm arguing it to be passive since it's derived from his Reiatsu which is accepted to be Passive on this wiki and such their effects will be as well but as you already stated they can control weather that effect is applied onto someone or not.

Not necessarily as Bleach Characters can control the effects of their Reiatsu as shown/stated by Aizen.

That's a fair point.

 

[Deceived3596]

That's a fair point.

Thanks.

Also slightly-off topic since you're a mod on this wiki how much votes from mods do you need for a CR to go through?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Thanks.

Also slightly-off topic since you're a mod on this wiki how much votes from mods do you need for a CR to go through?

1 if it's basic stuff, 2 for a thread like this.

Unless it's something major (like verse wide revision of statistics or abilities), you shouldn't need more than that.

 

[Deceived3596]

1 if it's basic stuff, 2 for a thread like this.

Unless it's something major (like verse wide revision of statistics or abilities), you shouldn't need more than that.

Then these additions can be added since i've got your's and Duedate's approval? (of course excluding the abilities most people disagreed with).

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Then these additions can be added since i've got your's and Duedate's approval? (of course excluding the abilities most people disagreed with).

Yeah. The abilities everyone agreed on should br fine to apply.

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah. The abilities everyone agreed on should br fine to apply.

Alright then i'll add these abilities to their profiles in a little bit. Can you close this thread or do i have to go to someone else to do that?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait until after you apply the changes to request it closed.

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

What Duedate8898 and LordGriffin1000 accepted seem fine, to me.

 

[Deceived3596]

What Duedate8898 and LordGriffin1000 accepted seem fine, to me.

Alright i'll edit the profiles then later on. Thanks for your input.