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GER's Willpower Manip

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i'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this but whatever.

GER's willpower manip: to put it simply giorno shouldn't have willpower manip listed on his profile no where was it ever shown that GER RTZ diavolo's willpower for his action, diavolo was just freaking the **** out because of what just transpired and proceeded to get MUDA'd to "death" the scan for the willpower manip is likely just referring to GER's causality manip so i don't know why anyone took that scan in the most literal way possible.

TL;DR Giorno shouldn't have willpower manip because GER has never done that.
 
Yes, it definitely doesn't work like people think it does, a target would still be able to have willpower after having it returned to 0. However, Diavolo still didn't use his Stand in his death loop, we don't know why, and Willpower Manip fits that, so I don't think the power should be removed.

Also the image of Giorno and GER in the page should changed for a more notable user of the power.
 
idk either but it was probably out of fear of GER's caus manip and not because he actually couldn't do anything because if we assume it was because of willpower manip then we're just heading into speculation city as there is no defined reason for diavolo not using his stand in the death loop.
 
The first is a headcanon and he even had no idea what was going on, the other stuff fits what we were told, but that's just being repetitive for my part.
 
well yeah that's just my guess but the point is we really don't know either way so there is no proof of willpower manip beyond headcanon the best you could get from the death loop theory is a "Possibly Willpower Manipulation" for GER.
 
I could see the reason for Diavolo not using his stand was due to how bizarre (no pun intended) and freaked out he was at everything that happened. From seeing everything around him including himself moving back in time or whatever to even getting MUDA'd by GER when he could have used his stand to erase time to GTFO of there. Even if he was to be stuck in the death loop, there were times he could have used it to prevent getting shanked or prevent getting runned over by a taxi but he didn't know or was just still in WTF mode.

But GER's stand page does state it reduces a persons action and will to zero, so maybe IF Diavolo had thought to use his stands powers to escape a repeated death that they were prevented so he can suffer more at his uselessness...totally not an intended pun.

I'm not really good in discussions regarding with the likes of GER but I think both interpretations could be correct, at least in my eyes they can be with or without the stand pages description.
 
the same scan for GER's "willpower manip" says it has no power and no speed clearly what the page says isn't meant to be taken literally.
 
oh yeah also there should be a note on giorno's page that says:

"GER has to kill it's opponent in order to put them in a death loop"

because there's a lot of confusion about how death loop works and assuming it activates instantly is fallacious.
 
Agree on adding the note. I actually was on a Giorno w/GER thread one time and someone actually said that because RtZ can ignore dura (I honestly doubt that) that GER can put someone in a deathloop when that's just ******* stupid given he has to kill someone for it to go into effect.

I can get if the death loop were to be in effect once they die, but...that's the point though right? The opponent has to die for them to go through a death loop.
 
yeah basically once GER kills you it reverts your death and then once you die it does that again and again and again and agai-
 
anyway i think Azelf would be a better character to represent willpower manipulation since if you harm azelf you lose all willpower.
 
Eh, even in things in JoJoveller it makes mention of setting a target's will to 0, so it isnt a one off thing mentioned in passing, we never see him use it though in canon (although he does use it in outside material like on Pucci).

>the same scan for GER's "willpower manip" says it has no power and no speed clearly what the page says isn't meant to be taken literally.

That's being dishonest and a composition fallacy, just because the stats arent meant to be taken literally doesnt mean the description isnt, given everything else in said description appears to be 100% true. We already dont use Stand Stats, and the description to the Stand abilities =/= Stats.
 
when did he use RTZ on pucci????

the "RTZ will and actions" statement is most definitely being figurative and referring to the scene where GER used RTZ for the first time RTZ the actions of diavolo and mista shooting his gun how it doesn't refer to that you tell me.

also simply stating a character has a power isn't enough proof to add said power when said power has NEVER been shown.
 
>when did he use RTZ on pucci????

Novel, and before you go it isnt cano, not the point, the point is that there exists official, licensed JoJo media where GER does in fact utilize the will manip the canon bio claims it can do in an explicit fashion. It isnt a power that is unique to the novel, the novel just decides to show it.


>the "RTZ will and actions" statement is most definitely being figurative and referring to the scene where GER used RTZ for the first time RTZ the actions of diavolo and mista shooting his gun how it doesn't refer to that you tell me.

How's it figurative when it's being literal, the only way it'd be figurative is if you take will to be figurative, which is odd given that'd be, quite literally, the only word in the entire bio not meant to be taken literally. It isnt referring to anything other than it's own ability, That isnt how Stand Bio's work, they're a description at face value in every instance, except apparently this one according to you. Yeah, he did a rtz on Diavolo and Mista, and that's probably the same thing as the attacker's actio, but that has literally nothing to do with will, not even figuratively. Why differentiate between an attacker's actio and will in the same sentence if theyre supposed to be the same thing? They're two different things within the statement itself, ergo it cant be both and given it's shown to be different in outside material, well I'm gonna take licensed material over what is essentially some dude's opinion.

>also simply stating a character has a power isn't enough proof to add said power when said power has NEVER been shown.

Actually it is enough proof if the statement comes from a reliable source like the bio of the thing coming from what is essentially wog (then parroted in multiple different things such as the official guidebook, worded differently no less so it aint a copy paste), powers through statements are a common thing on the wiki, he doesnt have to show it, he just has to be said to have it.
 
@Chariot

are you actually using the 36 kars on mars novel that WASN'T EVEN WRITTEN by araki as supporting evidence? i mean really, if IT WAS written by araki then you would have a point there but the person who wrote the novel wasn't araki so i don't see your point here

yeah and SP's profile in part 6 says it has the greatest stand ability ever(this is after part 5) and that it stops time by going FTL(i mean SP can go FTL but that's clearly not how it stops time) so how are ALL stand profiles literal and none of them can be figurative like AT ALL.

two wrongs do not make a right and those profiles who use statements as evidence for abilities should be changed if the ability is never shown.
 
That official & licensed JoJo media doesn't matter due to being non-canon.
 
Eficiente said:
@GiornoGiovannaF If you have nothing to contribute then you should think twice before making comments.
Click to expand...
listen here buddy i called you out on something you said which was stupid calling official statements by araki non canon and i don't care bane me if that satisfies your ego
 
You're wrong, I said that the previously mentioned non-canon novel not done by Araki didn't matter, you understood it as well as you pay attention to it.
 
GiornoGiovannaF said:
first it isnt official and if you maybe read chariots first point you wouldnt be saying that
Click to expand...
I legit copied and pasted his words to say what I said. If you want to beat the dead horse yet again about this pointless matter then I recommend you to think about what would that accomplish first.
 
I'm not so sure about removing it. Both the stand stats page and JoJoveller state that GER reduces a person's will to zero. You can also argue that Diavolo didn't send out King Crimson to defend himself against the hobo as his will to defend himself was set to zero, since it's the only explanation given the information we know about GER. Agree with the death loop though.
 
I agree with OP. I was pretty suspicious of it back then and having read through it. Idk why Diavolo didn't use his Stand, but better showings of this is Estarossa whom makes anyone with hatred against him lose willpower
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
I agree with OP. I was pretty suspicious of it back then and having read through it. Idk why Diavolo didn't use his Stand, but better showings of this is Estarossa whom makes anyone with hatred against him lose willpower
Click to expand...
i think azelf would be a better represenative of Willpower Manipulation since azelf IS willpower embodied.
 
Statements are enough for a for a power addition if they come from a good and reliable source, of which GER's willpower manipulation comes from MULTIPLE reliable sources. Estarossa's willpower manipulation is actually very similar to the effects of GER's manipulation when you think about it. Those with hatred against Estarossa lose their willpower to attack him and can't move. Those effected still want to attack him (evidenced by Ban) but they can't do anything about it. Diavolo underwent these same effects. In the autopsy room, Diavolo was clearly very confused and wanted to move around. However, he couldn't move an inch despite him desperately trying to.
 
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