How'd he get over there man? A CRT for GER's Infinite Speed.

[Testarossa002]

Maybe on that front, but I'd rather not let my first CRT be a failure

That's kinda like a rite of passage into this site.

You think this character should be this fast or strong, make and account and make a CRT.
Only to get blitzed and oneshot by the first reply to the thread

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Alright, so in the original universe, Parts 1-6. Fate, Gravity, and Calamity all act as connected, fundamental forces to each other. Yes, Calamity exists alongside Gravity and Fate in Parts 1-6, despite only being explored in Part 8 and no... Wonder of U doesn't exist all across parts 1-6, and whoever came up with that needs their head checked... Anyway, Calamity, by itself, is the negative force that befell the Joestar family on that one fateful night in the 1800's. Calamity with it's negative energy, in fact, causes harm to befall the Joestar family tree and everybody that accompanies them on their journey's. Those people who end up helping the Joestar's being brought together by Gravity itself. As a force it is said to attract stand user's together countless times and push them apart when the time is right. However, one must ask themselves, how do Gravity and Calamity in Parts 1-6 know when to do these things? Well, this is where Fate itself comes in, and trust me, there's a point to all of this that leads back to Epitaph's prediction, just trust me... Fate is, without a doubt, the most influential force in Parts 1-6. Gravity and Calamity falling under it. While they are ALL 3D forces, Fate unquestionably reigns supreme over both of them as everybody walks on the paths Fate chose for them. Gravity and Calamity helping out along the way to move the pieces along on Fate's giant, figurative chessboard. Now, how does this relate back to King Crimson? Well...

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Alright, so in the original universe, Parts 1-6. Fate, Gravity, and Calamity all act as connected, fundamental forces to each other. Yes, Calamity exists alongside Gravity and Fate in Parts 1-6, despite only being explored in Part 8 and no... Wonder of U doesn't exist all across parts 1-6, and whoever came up with that needs their head checked... Anyway, Calamity, by itself, is the negative force that befell the Joestar family on that one fateful night in the 1800's. Calamity with it's negative energy, in fact, causes harm to befall the Joestar family tree and everybody that accompanies them on their journey's. Those people who end up helping the Joestar's being brought together by Gravity itself. As a force it is said to attract stand user's together countless times and push them apart when the time is right. However, one must ask themselves, how do Gravity and Calamity in Parts 1-6 know when to do these things? Well, this is where Fate itself comes in, and trust me, there's a point to all of this that leads back to Epitaph's prediction, just trust me... Fate is, without a doubt, the most influential force in Parts 1-6. Gravity and Calamity falling under it. While they are ALL 3D forces, Fate unquestionably reigns supreme over both of them as everybody walks on the paths Fate chose for them. Gravity and Calamity helping out along the way to move the pieces along on Fate's giant, figurative chessboard. Now, how does this relate back to King Crimson? Well...

what is he cooking

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

what is he cooking

You'll see...

 

[Demifiend]

Alright, so in the original universe, Parts 1-6. Fate, Gravity, and Calamity all act as connected, fundamental forces to each other. Yes, Calamity exists alongside Gravity and Fate in Parts 1-6, despite only being explored in Part 8 and no... Wonder of U doesn't exist all across parts 1-6, and whoever came up with that needs their head checked... Anyway, Calamity, by itself, is the negative force that befell the Joestar family on that one fateful night in the 1800's. Calamity with it's negative energy, in fact, causes harm to befall the Joestar family tree and everybody that accompanies them on their journey's. Those people who end up helping the Joestar's being brought together by Gravity itself. As a force it is said to attract stand user's together countless times and push them apart when the time is right. However, one must ask themselves, how do Gravity and Calamity in Parts 1-6 know when to do these things? Well, this is where Fate itself comes in, and trust me, there's a point to all of this that leads back to Epitaph's prediction, just trust me... Fate is, without a doubt, the most influential force in Parts 1-6. Gravity and Calamity falling under it. While they are ALL 3D forces, Fate unquestionably reigns supreme over both of them as everybody walks on the paths Fate chose for them. Gravity and Calamity helping out along the way to move the pieces along on Fate's giant, figurative chessboard. Now, how does this relate back to King Crimson? Well...

What is blud waffling about

 

[Chariot190]

But actually

Kanji in order and meaning.

キング・クリムゾン (kingu kurimuzon) - "King Crimson," the name of a character. は (wa) - Particle indicating the subject of the sentence. 超スピード (chō supīdo) - "Super speed" or "ultra speed." を (o) - Particle indicating the object of the sentence. 誇り (hokori) - Noun meaning "pride" or "boasting." 、 (、) - Comma indicating a pause or separation. 目視できない (mokushi dekinai) - Verb phrase meaning "cannot be visually observed." ほどの (hodo no) - Particle indicating a degree or extent. 速さ (hayasa) - Noun meaning "speed" or "swiftness." で (de) - Particle indicating the means or method. 小石 (koishi) - Noun meaning "small stone" or "pebble." を (o) - Particle indicating the object of the sentence. 投げます (nagemasu) - Verb meaning "to throw" or "to toss" (polite form).
A literal translation would be something like "Super-Speed boasting King Crimson, cannot see the swift pebble that was tossed"

Alright, so in the original universe, Parts 1-6. Fate, Gravity, and Calamity all act as connected, fundamental forces to each other. Yes, Calamity exists alongside Gravity and Fate in Parts 1-6, despite only being explored in Part 8 and no... Wonder of U doesn't exist all across parts 1-6, and whoever came up with that needs their head checked... Anyway, Calamity, by itself, is the negative force that befell the Joestar family on that one fateful night in the 1800's. Calamity with it's negative energy, in fact, causes harm to befall the Joestar family tree and everybody that accompanies them on their journey's. Those people who end up helping the Joestar's being brought together by Gravity itself. As a force it is said to attract stand user's together countless times and push them apart when the time is right. However, one must ask themselves, how do Gravity and Calamity in Parts 1-6 know when to do these things? Well, this is where Fate itself comes in, and trust me, there's a point to all of this that leads back to Epitaph's prediction, just trust me... Fate is, without a doubt, the most influential force in Parts 1-6. Gravity and Calamity falling under it. While they are ALL 3D forces, Fate unquestionably reigns supreme over both of them as everybody walks on the paths Fate chose for them Gravity and Calamity helping out along the way to move the pieces along on Fate's giant, figurative chessboard. Now, how does this relate back to King Crimson? Well...

Dude, one post at a time please.

Anyway yeah, yeah, GER does have fate res (Not acausality though), but the fact you're going on about Part 8 and shit means you've already ****** up in trying to get it accepted.
You're jumping through hoops and making a mixmatched and disconnected chain of whatever to get a conclusion, when all the shit you need, and honestly, the only things you should be using, is all within Part 5 and a few adjacent Part 5 interviews. And it technically isn't even GER, it's Gio that has the fate stuff.

 

[Demifiend]

My honest reaction after reading the CRT:

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

But actually

Kanji in order and meaning.

キング・クリムゾン (kingu kurimuzon) - "King Crimson," the name of a character. は (wa) - Particle indicating the subject of the sentence. 超スピード (chō supīdo) - "Super speed" or "ultra speed." を (o) - Particle indicating the object of the sentence. 誇り (hokori) - Noun meaning "pride" or "boasting." 、 (、) - Comma indicating a pause or separation. 目視できない (mokushi dekinai) - Verb phrase meaning "cannot be visually observed." ほどの (hodo no) - Particle indicating a degree or extent. 速さ (hayasa) - Noun meaning "speed" or "swiftness." で (de) - Particle indicating the means or method. 小石 (koishi) - Noun meaning "small stone" or "pebble." を (o) - Particle indicating the object of the sentence. 投げます (nagemasu) - Verb meaning "to throw" or "to toss" (polite form).
A literal translation would be something like "Super-Speed boasting King Crimson, cannot see the swift pebble that was tossed"


Dude, one post at a time please.

Anyway yeah, yeah, GER does have fate res (Not acausality though), but the fact you're going on about Part 8 and shit means you've already ***** up in trying to get it accepted.
You're jumping through hoops and making a mixmatched and disconnected chain of whatever to get a conclusion, when all the shit you need, and honestly, the only things you should be using, is all within Part 5 and a few adjacent Part 5 interviews. And it technically isn't even GER, it's Gio that has the fate stuff.

I'm still on Speed actually, just bringing up a point about cosmology to explain out why King Crimson's prediction was ultimately misread by Diavolo and his blinding ego, scratching at anything just to be right about GER's power.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm still on Speed actually, just bringing up a point about cosmology to explain out why King Crimson's prediction was ultimately misread by Diavolo.

Before you attempt to post. Bring a statement saying that GER's nothin personnel happened within in actual zero time. You can't just assume that. By this logic, every blitz ever would be Infinite.

Also you don't need to bring that shit up, just post the statement saying even if he predicted what would happen, it wouldn't. You're overcomplicating things.

 

[Demifiend]

I'm still on Speed actually, just bringing up a point about cosmology to explain out why King Crimson's prediction was ultimately misread by Diavolo.

If you are going to argue that the prediction was false, well, it was actually correct.
Diavolo was seeing the truth, epitaph's forecast was correct.
In fact even ger agreed on this by claiming that what diavolo was seeing is indeed reality

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Before you attempt to post. Bring a statement saying that GER's nothin personnel happened within in actual zero time. You can't just assume that. By this logic, every blitz ever would be Infinite.

Also you don't need to bring that shit up, just post the statement saying even if he predicted what would happen, it wouldn't. You're overcomplicating things.

I actually...accepted the fact that GER's speed isn't infinite like...a couple posts ago. I'm actually simply trying to get rid of the last plothole that kinda puts a knot in giving GER unquantifiably MFTL+ speed, which you seem to agree with.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

If you are going to argue that the prediction was false, well, it was actually correct.
Diavolo was seeing the truth, epitaph's forecast was correct.
In fact even ger agreed on this by claiming that what diavolo was seeing is indeed reality

No, it was. I completely agree, it's just that fate itself had more of a hand in what happened than you might think.

 

[Chariot190]

What?
I'm assuming you're misusing the term plothole. Is it the pebble dodge? Diavolo aim dodged that and started moving before GER even flicked it.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Nope, I'm talking about the last prediction Epitaph showed Diavolo. Even if GER did, in fact, advert that deadly future from becoming reality, that doesn't change the fact that what happened in that prediction was completely real and was about to happen had RT0 not intervened. How can GER be so much faster than King Crimson, yet still get impaled, a surface level viewer asks? Well, just let me explain...again... Side note, I wanted to keep out as much information of my other future threads as I can from this one, but it seems it can't be helped. What I'm about to say is basically word-for-word the explanation I had in mind to give GER the fate-resistance part of Acausality Type 4. Yep, you heard that right, I have strong examples for all three resistances granted by Type 4, and yes, GER shows them all in this one fight. That's enough spoiling that though, let me just finish this fate explanation up so we can get Unquantifiably MFTL+ accepted...or at least agreed upon by a majority here.

 

[Chariot190]

How can GER be so much faster than King Crimson, yet still get impaled, a surface level viewer asks?

Because it 1. Was Gio getting harmed, not GER, they just have the stand-link shit. 2. It would have been a surprise attack from point-blank range, which the verse established, no less than 8 times by this point, that you can be hilariously fast, actually blitz-worthy over a thing, but if you don't know where an attack is coming from, you can very well get tagged. King Crimson's shit actively disorients as well, he could be dozens of times above him, the way the verse works would enable Gio to get tagged in that split moment.

Or you could just ignore it because it's stated that prediction would never have happened and we see GER react to a point-blank punch, both before, and again right after that scene, blitzing him both times casually.

Bro you're going about this shit all wrong and making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Yep, you heard that right, I have strong examples for all three resistances granted by Type 4, and yes, GER shows them all in this one fight.

Dude just use the interview, you don't need a bunch of examples.

That's enough spoiling that though, let me just finish this fate explanation up so we can get Unquantifiably MFTL+ accepted.

We don't upscale like that, the highest calc is over halfway away from +, best GER gets is an "at least MFTL", which, he already has, for this very feat. We accept he can blitz dudes as fast as King Crimson, he just isn't upscaling to the next benchmark, much like Plat isn't upscaling for dusting TW.

 

[Demifiend]

And diavolo also blinded ger and giorno.

 

[Chariot190]

And diavolo also blinded ger and giorno.

I mean you'd think that would be the obvious answer, though evidently that isn't good enough.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Because it 1. Was Gio getting harmed, not GER, they just have the stand-link shit. 2. It would have been a surprise attack from point-blank range, which the verse established, no less than 8 times by this point, that you can be hilariously fast, actually blitz-worthy over a thing, but if you don't know where an attack is coming from, you can very well get tagged. King Crimson's shit actively disorients as well, he could be dozens of times above him, the way the verse works would enable Gio to get tagged in that split moment.

Or you could just ignore it because it's stated that prediction would never have happened and we GER react to a point-blank punch, both before, and again right after that scene, blitzing him both times.

Bro you're going about this shit all wrong and making a mountain out of an ant hill.

I'm not trying to argue with you Chariot... Your on my side after all with the revived change, and you've brung great evidence to my aid with the Kanji and such. Good shit by the way! However, I feel as if you disregarding this scene completely isn't the right move. It's a valid criticism against GER's speed, and I'd rather this not get brought up later when votes are counted...

 

[Demifiend]

Bro... He was blinded.

Try to react and block the attack of a child when you are blinded...then tell me if you CAN.

 

[Chariot190]

However, I feel as if you disregarding this scene completely isn't the right move. It's a valid criticism against GER's speed, and I'd rather this not get brought up later when votes are counted...

It isn't.

• Verse establishes dudes can be tagged even if they're unimaginably above the thing tagging, if they can't see the attack, or if it's coming from a direction they don't know. Happens even with Star Platinum against dudes he's explicitly noted above, and goes on to outspeed, solely because he didn't know where the attack was coming from (Geb for example, with N'Doul stating this verbatim), happens with CD, and Stone Free, and so many other things, against shit they're outright stated to be above. It just how it be. This is what King Crmson actively does.
• The punch itself would have been mere cm at maximum away when time resumed anyway, meaning King Crimson would have only needed to cover a few cm while GER would need to gather itself, figure out where it is, what's happening, where King Crimson is, where he's attacking from, and then move Gio out of the way.
• Time Skip actively causes disorientation, making it hard to react as soon as it ends even if you know it's coming.
• GER is stated to be capable of blitzing King Crimson flatout twice, and does so three times on screen.
• King Crimson technically impales Gio, not GER.
• The prediction itself is explicitly noted to be a thing that wouldn't happen regardless in databooks.
• And of course, GER and Gio were blinded with blood, making it so they couldn't see, something Diavolo actively did to make sure they couldn't react despite being way above him in speed.

You say valid criticism, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to even have the audacity to humor this, as the dude who cold steel's the dude like thrice, as not being way the hell beyond King Crimson.

This doesn't matter though, we already accept the feat and that GER >>>>>>> King Crimson in speed, we don't upscale to the next value though without calcs, whether we accept it or not, GER won't be getting that +.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

...God, why didn't I just put every upgrade for GER into one, giant CRT thread...? That would've got my many, many points across all at once instead of having them be fragmented now. Better yet, why didn't I make a Diavolo Time Erase page first for a test run, my revamed explanation for RT0 NEEDS and completely realizes on a complete changing of the structure of Time Erase first and forrmost, within the anime at least... What's done is done however, and we're already reaching the finish line with this CRT. Let me stop stalling and actually write this fate explanation out.

 

[Emerald]

JJBA: GER blitzes King Crimson

vsbattles.fandom.com

Just a simple calc of the pebble throw

 

[Demifiend]

Useless calc.

 

[Chariot190]

...God, why didn't I just put every upgrade for GER into one, giant CRT thread...?

Because that's bad, especially for controversial shit.

within the anime at least...

The anime is only used when it's 1:1 with the manga, or when it actively fixes mistakes to try and be more close to the intended vision mostly with irl locations being more accurate.
The profiles manga first and foremost.

JJBA: GER blitzes King Crimson

vsbattles.fandom.com

Just a simple calc of the pebble throw

Imgur link broken.
and kind of mundane, that'd be like calcing Plat blitzing HG via 1/10,000th second statement, like yeah you could, but everyone involved scales way higher.

 

[Emerald]

Imgur link broken.
and kind of mundane, that'd be like calcing Plat blitzing HG via 1/10,000th second statement, like yeah you could, but everyone involved scales way higher.

Fixed
i got curious

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

It isn't.

• Verse establishes dudes can be tagged even if they're unimaginably above the thing tagging, if they can't see the attack, or if it's coming from a direction they don't know. Happens even with Star Platinum against dudes he's explicitly noted above, and goes on to outspeed, solely because he didn' know where the attack was coming from, happens with CD, and Stone Free, and so many other things, against shit they're outright stated to be above. It just how it be. This is what King Crmson actively does.
• The punch itself would have been mere cm at maximum away when time resumed anyway, meaning King Crimson would have only needed to cover a few cm while GER would need to gather itself, figure out where it is, what's happening, where King Crimson is, where he's attacking from, and then move Gio out of the way.
• Time Skip actively causes disorientation, making it hard to react as soon as it ends even if you know it's coming.
• GER is stated to be capable of blitzing King Crimson flatout twice, and does so three times on screen.
• King Crimson technically impales Gio, not GER.
• The prediction itself is explicitly ned to be a thing that wouldn't happen regardless in databooks.
• And of course, GER and Gio were blinded with blood, making it so they couldn't see, something Diavolo actively did to make sure they couldn't react despite being way above him in speed.

You say valid criticism, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to even have the audacity to humor this as the dude who cold steel's the dude like thrice as not being way the hell beyond King Crimson.

This doesn't matter though, we already accept the feat and that GER >>>>>>> King Crimson in speed, we don't upscale to the next value though without calcs, whether we accept it or not, GER won't be getting that +.

I'm saying valid criticism because why, on God's green Earth, would an automatic ability like RT0 allow for something like that to happen logically...? That doesn't make sense, it shouldn't matter if Giorno or GER gets attacked nor blinded by a physical object. RT0 is completely automatic and Infinite in activation speed, Diavolo shouldn't even be able to touch either of them physically before it activates. Now, what specifically triggers RT0 is an entirely different story that's a little more complicated than I'd wish to explain here. So, I'll save it for my far larger GER thread, which I'll post...after that King Crimson ability revision thread. God, why did I make it my mission on this website to upgrade/downgrade the entire Jojo verse... Anyway, as I was saying...

Fate's path for every, single thing, no matter how minor and insignificant
is charted at the beginning of the universe, Gravity and Calamity basically it's henchmen doing it's dirty work. Diavolo with his stand, King Crimson, has been granted the power to gaze into the future. Diavolo with this power given to him by Epitaph, believes he's favored by Fate itself whenever a prediction turns out to be in his favor which couldn't be further from the truth...kinda. You see, Fate is completely neutral in the path it has layed out for everything literally down to the last microbe, it's not fair or unfair to anybody at all. If Fate decides that you get good or bad luck one day or another, that's what happens. If Fate says you suddently up and die at some time and place, that's what happens. You can try and even successfully somewhat alter how you get to Fate's destination, but you'll still get there at on Fate's schedule, not yours. The most important thing to remember here is though that what Fate says shall happens basically goes, but one thing Fate hates, figuratively of course, is people ******* with it's plans in motion. We may favor Bucciarati's group and call them good, but artifical labels like good and bad don't matter to Fate in the slighest. Fate still up and went and decided to kill TWO more people than what it had planned, all because Mista tried to save his friend from death. Fate didn't stop there, deciding that just because one of you screwed up my plans... All of you gotta go, starting with GER with a good ol' fist through his sternum...I think? Now, we get to the actual explanation of what actually happened, finally right?

King Crimson shows Diavolo what's going to happen 15 seconds into the future, this showing Diavolo impaling GER. What you probably didn't catch though is Diavolo literally touching somebody else within Time Erase, and holding them there...still within Time Erase. You see the problem here for somebody constantly shown to be intangible holding somebody as if the opposite were true, but let's do a thought experiment first. Let's say Diavolo did do this "sneak attack" all manually, how do you even manage to logically get past his only weakness, given this is shown to be happening all within Time Erase?

A: If he activated his ability before he fully connected with GER's body, then he wouldn't be able to follow up and finish the job, being intangible and all.

B: If he activated his ability after he impaled GER, then GER's body would simply fall right through his fist and onto the ground.

See how the manual attack argument falls apart when you simply look closer just as what was being predicited? He had help from Fate itself, opening up GER's chest since he couldn't do it by himself... Cough cough, being in Time Erase cough cough. Then, Fate moved GER's body onto Diavolo's outstretched fist, negating his enhanced durability completely.

This explanation behind Diavolo's final prediction not only doesn't cast shade at GER's durability, his speed nor the ability actually being automatic. It is more complicated however than just saying GER was caught off guard, but I think it does make more sense. Diavolo quite literally erased time and let Fate do all the work, per usual with a couple similar examples throughout Vento Auero.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm saying valid criticism because why, on God's green Earth, would an automatic ability like RT0 allow for something like that to happen logically...?

Semi-Automatic. And what the ****.
Did you just forget that RTZ literally made it so it didn't happen.

Like what in the actual **** are you going on about, yeah no shit RTZ wouldn't allow that to happen, so it didn't, this happened.

That doesn't make sense, it shouldn't matter if Giorno or GER gets attacked nor blinded by a physical object. RT0 is completely automatic and Infinite in activation speed, Diavolo shouldn't even be able to touch either of them physically before it activates.

My brother in ******* christ, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. You are unironically bitching about about how this should have happened when it LITERALLY DID.

it's not fair or unfair to anybody at all.

Actively untrue actually, we're told multiple times, even by Araki, that fate itself favors certain individuals, such as DIO and Jotaro for example.

but artifical labels like good and bad don't matter to Fate in the slighest.

It actually does, it's stated fate favors justice and the truth, not only in supplementary material, but in both Part 4 and 6.

All of you gotta go, starting with GER with a good ol' fist through his sternum...I think? Now, we get to the actual explanation of what actually happened, finally right?

Again, wasn't GER, Diavolo punched through Giorno, not GER.

What you probably didn't catch though is Diavolo literally touching somebody else within Time Erase, and holding them there...still within Time Erase. You see the problem here for somebody constantly shown to be intangible holding somebody as if the opposite were true, but let's do a thought experiment first. Let's say Diavolo did do this "sneak attack" all manually, how do you even manage to logically get past his only weakness, given this is shown to be happening all within Time Erase?

actually preaching I didnt catch something as if i havent been held at gunpoint by walt and lucid to parse even the raw ass kanji for this mf

What are you going on about? Ignoring the fact it's stated Diavolo can't attack in time skip, and all he does is position himself and throw an attack so when time resumes, the attack lands moment of.

None of that shit happened in time skip, he was using Epitaph to look at what happened after time skip, which he himself states and is then, again, reiterated in databooks.
Which is to say you're explicitly wrong here, multiple sources are telling you that's objectively not what happened.

A: If he activated his ability before he fully connected with GER's body, then he wouldn't be able to follow up and finish the job, being intangible and all.

This is correct, time would have resumed the exact moment his punch landed, as we are told.

B: If he activated his ability after he impaled GER, then GER's body would simply fall right through his fist and onto the ground.

I'm not even going to humor this.

See how the manual attack argument falls apart when you simply look closer just as what was being predicited? He had help from Fate itself, opening up GER's chest since he couldn't do it by himself... Cough cough, being in Time Erase cough cough. Then, Fate moved GER's body onto Diavolo's outstretched fist, negating his enhanced durability completely.

Argument? Dude, we are told this is what happened

Also, Diavolo himself states, in that same scene, that he was a moment quicker on the draw, and that's why the vision showed him punching through, not due to forced fate, but because bro blinded GER and was able to get his hit off on Gio a moment quicker, he actively states this himself.
RTZ negated this and prevented it from happening, as we are flat-out told no less than 4 times.

Also, again, he punched through Gio, not GER. Fate didn't move shit, it didn't negate any enhanced durability, all that happened was Diavolo skipped time, went to do what he usually does, threw an attack, and checked his precog to see if it'd land on Gio, it would have, then he confirms he was a moment quicker upon resuming and would win, then RTZ said no.

This explanation behind Diavolo's final prediction not only doesn't cast shade at GER's durability, his speed nor the ability actually being automatic. It is more complicated however than just saying GER was caught off guard, but I think it does make more sense.

My brother in christ, you are not only making shit up, but you're making shit up over shit that didn't happen. He punched Gio, not GER, so that's the durability shit completely out the window.
Speed? He went out of his way to blind him so he'd be slower to act, among a lot of other shit, that's the speed solved.
the ability? It, unironically, activated automatically and prevented it, so that's that solved because that do be what happened.

Diavolo quite literally erased time and let Fate do all the work, per usual with a couple similar examples throughout Vento Auero.

Except we see him go out of his way to throw a punch, take precautions to make sure the punch would land with blood, said he'd throw a punch, confirm the punch landing was due to him being a moment quicker than GER could gather himself, then threw said punch, manually, actively, reeling his fist back and throwing hands. And then RTZ kicked in and told him to **** off.

Only for Diavaolo to manually try and throw hands two more times, citing the vision each time as to why he, himself, landing a blow should happen.

The examples you are thinking of, while they do exist, are not what is happening here. What's happening in this scene is the type of shit like when he mutilated Bruno, killed Polnareff, blew off GE's arm, and more.

Which is to say, please stop cooking, you're just going to make it harder for shit to actually be accepted because you're making things up and misremembering the very scene you're attempting to justify, solely because you don't recall basic facts like Diavolo punching Gio not GER, the blood being used to hinder the reaction time, Diavolo confirming a bunch of that shit himself, the fact RTZ did kick in and prevented it. And honestly, not even the databooks help your case.

 

[Chariot190]

Fyi I'm not saying Epitaph doesn't show a guaranteed fate, but you're kinda extrapolating a bunch of shit in this instance, from what is just "bro threw a punch, it would have hit, so epitaph showed it hitting", and then everything doubling down that simply being what happened before RTZ nullified it.
also we have like five stands that can actively manipulate and change fate, Cinderella of all things is stated to actively change fate without retaliation.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Semi-Automatic. And what the *****.
Did you just forget that RTZ literally made it so it didn't happen.

Like what in the actual ***** are you going on about, yeah no shit RTZ wouldn't allow that to happen, so it didn't, this happened.

My brother in ***** christ, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. You are unironically bitching about about how this should have happened when it LITERALLY DID.

Actively untrue actually, we're told multiple times, even by Araki, that fate itself favors certain individuals, such as DIO and Jotaro for example.

It actually does, it's stated fate favors justice and the truth, not only in supplementary material, but in both Part 4 and 6.

Again, wasn't GER, Diavolo punched through Giorno, not GER.

actually preaching I didnt catch something as if i havent been held at gunpoint by walt and lucid to parse even the raw ass kanji for this mf

What are you going on about? Ignoring the fact it's stated Diavolo can't attack in time skip, and all he does is position himself and throw an attack so when time resumes, the attack lands moment of.

None of that shit happened in time skip, he was using Epitaph to look at what happened after time skip, which he himself states and is then, again, reiterated in databooks.
Which is to say you're explicitly wrong here, multiple sources are telling you that's objectively not what happened.

This is correct, time would have resumed the exact moment his punch landed, as we are told.

I'm not even going to humor this.

Argument? Dude, we are told this is what happened

Also, Diavolo himself states, in that same scene, that he was a moment quicker on the draw, and that's why the vision showed him punching through, not due to forced fate, but because bro blinded GER and was able to get his hit off on Gio a moment quicker, he actively states this himself.
RTZ negated this and prevented it from happening, as we are flat-out told no less than 4 times.

Also, again, he punched through Gio, not GER. Fate didn't move shit, it didn't negate any enhanced durability, all that happened was Diavolo skipped time, went to do what he usually does, threw an attack, and checked his precog to see if it'd land on Gio, it would have, then he confirms he was a moment quicker upon resuming and would win, then RTZ said no.

My brother in christ, you are not only making shit up, but you're making shit up over shit that didn't happen. He punched Gio, not GER, so that's the durability shit completely out the window.
Speed? He went out of his way to blind him so he'd be slower to act, among a lot of other shit, that's the speed solved.
the ability? It, unironically, activated automatically and prevented it, so that's that solved because that do be what happened.

Except we see him go out of his way to throw a punch, take precautions to make sure the punch would land with blood, said he'd throw a punch, confirm the punch landing was due to him being a moment quicker than GER could gather himself, then threw said punch, manually, actively, reeling his fist back and throwing hands. And then RTZ kicked in and told him to ***** off.

Only for Diavaolo to manually try and throw hands two more times, citing the vision each time as to why he, himself, landing a blow should happen.

The examples you are thinking of, while they do exist, are not what is happening here. What's happening in this scene is the type of shit like when he mutilated Bruno, killed Polnareff, blew off GE's arm, and more.

Which is to say, please stop cooking, you're just going to make it harder for shit to actually be accepted because you're making things up and misremembering the very scene you're attempting to justify, solely because you don't recall basic facts like Diavolo punching Gio not GER, the blood being used to hinder the reaction time, Diavolo confirming a bunch of that shit himself, the fact RTZ did kick in and prevented it. And honestly, not even the databooks help your case.

It’s cool to be annoyed but no reason to be aggressive towards him and even say he’s bitching.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Semi-Automatic. And what the *****.
Did you just forget that RTZ literally made it so it didn't happen.

Like what in the actual ***** are you going on about, yeah no shit RTZ wouldn't allow that to happen, so it didn't, this happened.

My brother in ***** christ, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. You are unironically bitching about about how this should have happened when it LITERALLY DID.

Actively untrue actually, we're told multiple times, even by Araki, that fate itself favors certain individuals, such as DIO and Jotaro for example.

It actually does, it's stated fate favors justice and the truth, not only in supplementary material, but in both Part 4 and 6.

Again, wasn't GER, Diavolo punched through Giorno, not GER.

actually preaching I didnt catch something as if i havent been held at gunpoint by walt and lucid to parse even the raw ass kanji for this mf

What are you going on about? Ignoring the fact it's stated Diavolo can't attack in time skip, and all he does is position himself and throw an attack so when time resumes, the attack lands moment of.

None of that shit happened in time skip, he was using Epitaph to look at what happened after time skip, which he himself states and is then, again, reiterated in databooks.
Which is to say you're explicitly wrong here, multiple sources are telling you that's objectively not what happened.

This is correct, time would have resumed the exact moment his punch landed, as we are told.

I'm not even going to humor this.

Argument? Dude, we are told this is what happened

Also, Diavolo himself states, in that same scene, that he was a moment quicker on the draw, and that's why the vision showed him punching through, not due to forced fate, but because bro blinded GER and was able to get his hit off on Gio a moment quicker, he actively states this himself.
RTZ negated this and prevented it from happening, as we are flat-out told no less than 4 times.

Also, again, he punched through Gio, not GER. Fate didn't move shit, it didn't negate any enhanced durability, all that happened was Diavolo skipped time, went to do what he usually does, threw an attack, and checked his precog to see if it'd land on Gio, it would have, then he confirms he was a moment quicker upon resuming and would win, then RTZ said no.

My brother in christ, you are not only making shit up, but you're making shit up over shit that didn't happen. He punched Gio, not GER, so that's the durability shit completely out the window.
Speed? He went out of his way to blind him so he'd be slower to act, among a lot of other shit, that's the speed solved.
the ability? It, unironically, activated automatically and prevented it, so that's that solved because that do be what happened.

Except we see him go out of his way to throw a punch, take precautions to make sure the punch would land with blood, said he'd throw a punch, confirm the punch landing was due to him being a moment quicker than GER could gather himself, then threw said punch, manually, actively, reeling his fist back and throwing hands. And then RTZ kicked in and told him to ***** off.

Only for Diavaolo to manually try and throw hands two more times, citing the vision each time as to why he, himself, landing a blow should happen.

The examples you are thinking of, while they do exist, are not what is happening here. What's happening in this scene is the type of shit like when he mutilated Bruno, killed Polnareff, blew off GE's arm, and more.

Which is to say, please stop cooking, you're just going to make it harder for shit to actually be accepted because you're making things up and misremembering the very scene you're attempting to justify, solely because you don't recall basic facts like Diavolo punching Gio not GER, the blood being used to hinder the reaction time, Diavolo confirming a bunch of that shit himself, the fact RTZ did kick in and prevented it. And honestly, not even the databooks help your case.

Two things of note in your rebuttel though, both basically feeding into eachother. Err, you keep saying this whole ordeal happens after Time Erase but... I don't know how to tell you this, but if you take another look at the final prediction. You'd see that King Crimson...is still in Time Erase, really, take a second look at the scene both in the manga and anime as well. It's almost like he never left his ability, BUT given we know Time Erase's limits of 11 seconds and Diavolo's ability was about to end right then and there after he threw a punch. He must've Time Skipped AGAIN after his first Time Erase ended. Epitaph's backround in forecasts ALWAYS mirror the background of the future scene it's showing. If Diavolo's outside of his ability, and will continue to be outside of his ability for the next 15 seconds or so. Epitaph's background...will mirror the outside. If Diavolo's going to activate his ability and be inside said ability within the next 15 seconds, the background of Epitaph will show...the inside of Time Erase. Also, have you considered that maybe this is a direct case of unreliable narration? Really, while Epitaph's predictions may be a 100 percent accurate glimpse into the future, they don't make Diavolo clairvoyant in any sense of the word. He's able to get a snapshot from the future, 15 seconds into the future but still in the future nevertheless. Honestly though, put yourself in Diavolo's shoes for a second in this moment. You should've won, you really, really should've won. Yet, something happens, and the power you seeked didn't choose you. Now not just a minute later, you're below an unknown force, it's aura laying heavily upon you. You're scared, you won't admit it but you're scared deep down of the power the thing infront of you might be wielding. It just shot a hole deep into your hand, an attack your infallible King Crimson couldn't even see moving before it was too late. However, your confident in your abilities, you always have been, so you erase time. Moving towards your target, you gloat obviously while splashing your blood in your enemy's eyes before gloating again. Looking into the future, you suddently realize Fate has deemed you the victor as this prediction, certain to happen absoluetly, sees your enemy impaled on your hands. Drunk on an enormous ego, why would you even begin to question if Fate had a hand in helping you or not. You just want confirmation that your ability was triumphant, and that's what Diavolo got. False hope, that's it.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Fyi I'm not saying Epitaph doesn't show a guaranteed fate, but you're kinda extrapolating a bunch of shit in this instance, from what is just "bro threw a punch, it would have hit, so epitaph showed it hitting", and then everything doubling down that simply being what happened before RTZ nullified it.
also we have like five stands that can actively manipulate and change fate, Cinderella of all things is stated to actively change fate without retaliation.

Most of your rebuttel revolves around taking things at face value, the fact that Diavolo was STILL within Time Erase at the time of the prediction in both the manga and the anime means that he HAD to have erased time again. Who knows, if I had to guess, I'd say the punch he threw was supposed to be a fake-out of some kind. He couldn't have hit Giorno again outside of time erase to have him leaning backwards or something along those lines, RTZ would've just kicked in. Random thought there, but anyway. Immediately skipping again from that point, Giorno, who's unquestionably unconscious during Time Erase, could do nothing as Fate got to work doing just what I said. However, this is just a thought, not saying this is how the events played out to get to that point. I definitely stand by my other two points though.

 

[Chariot190]

Most of your rebuttel revolves around taking things at face value

Yeah? We don't just assume shit brother, not how the wiki works, assuming is fine for some stuff if it's likely, but, that isn't quite the case for this particular instance.
Though that's not really what I'm doing, I'm taking clear-cut statements from the character himself and supplementing them with databooks and other such things that corroborate the source, and going "yeah I don't see why the most knowledgable character on what he's doing atm and non-contradicted wog would be wrong here".

the fact that Diavolo was STILL within Time Erase at the time of the prediction in both the manga and the anime means that he HAD to have erased time again.

No? What? It just means he can use Epitaph and forecast what happens when time resumes/after time skip? He only deletes a dozen-odd seconds, if he uses Epitaph to see what happens in 10 seconds, 1 second away from time resuming, he's still gonna see whatever the hell happens in those time seconds even if, am, time is gone. It isn't like bro deletes the future. Which is, well, literally what he's doing, using Epitaph in time skip to confirm what will happen after the time skip, to see how he should act.

And no, it doesn't, because he didn't
There was only 1 time skip, and it began reversing at that when he tried to throw a punch. There was no "yeah he actually time skipped twice lmao".

Who knows, if I had to guess, I'd say the punch he threw was supposed to be a fake-out of some kind.

Well, you guessed wrong because he literally screams die with killing intent and is absolutely shocked when RTZ kicks in, preventing him from following through.

This is exactly what I mean, you're making shit up over the most straightforward, self-evident things imaginable.

Immediately skipping again from that point,

He literally didn't, given he makes note of when time would resume, and we see, plain as day, when RTZ kicks in, that there was only one time skip that reverted from Point B, back to his starting point. Diavolo also uses singular terms when talking about time skip being reverted.

could do nothing as Fate got to work doing just what I said.

Fate didn't do anything, Diavolo himself states that the epitaph showed him that vision, simply because he was a moment quicker and landed a killing blow on Gio before GER could gather himself in the minuscule moment between time resuming, and the punch landing, something he took steps to assure, by making sure that both Gio and GER would be blind upon resume.

This isn't vague or up for debate, we not only see this happen, but we are told that's what's happening.

who's unquestionably unconscious during Time Erase

True, that's why it has automatic functions to it, it could take action and stop Diavolo when GER could not, and even nullified King Crimson's effect on GER.

However, this is just a thought, not saying this is how the events played out to get to that point. I definitely stand by my other two points though.

Your other points aren't any better no offense, they're either outright contradicted, or completely unsubstantiated and borderline headcanon

And I say this as a dude who advocates Gio having fate res, but you're going about it entirely wrong.

 

[Chariot190]

It’s cool to be annoyed but no reason to be aggressive towards him and even say he’s bitching.

Saying **** isn't being aggressive though autocensor makes it look 10x worse now.
And it is what it is, excessive complaining about something that literally happened is bitching, not much beating around the bush there.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Saying ***** isn't being aggressive though autocensor makes it look 10x worse now.
And it is what it is, excessive complaining about something that literally happened is bitching, not much beating around the bush there.

Arguing your point...is not bitching, trying to counter another person's point with what you bring to the figurative table...is not bitching. You say complaining as if your point is supremely correct and cannot be challenged, making all argument against it futile.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

Arguing your point...is not bitching, trying to counter another person's point with what you bring to the figurative table...is not bitching. You say complaining as if your point is supremely correct and cannot be challenged, making all argument against it futile.

Jesus Christ dude, this is not a good look...
Anyway, writing a response to your paragraph now.

 

[Chariot190]

Arguing your point...is not bitching, trying to counter another person's point with what you bring to the figurative table...is not bitching. You say complaining as if your point is supremely correct and cannot be challenged, making all argument against it futile.

My brother in christ, you were going off about something and how it should have happened, when it did happen.
Unironically complaining over nothing.

Jesus Christ dude, this is not a good look...
Anyway, writing a response to your paragraph now.

I'm not here to support your headcanon or discuss it, hell as it stands this thread is over and should be closed, you're derailing the purpose of it. If you want a discussion, move it over to the discussion thread.
This is a CRT, I'm going to blunt and probably abrasive, but as long as I'm not actively insulting you, there's nothing to complain about.

If you're writing a response, I best see hard statements, we're not going to ever accept conjecture, especially conjecture that is contradicted by the very medium. Instead of saying, show.

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

My brother in christ, you were going off about something and how it should have happened, when it did happen.
Unironically complaining over nothing.

-You and I have VERY different definitions of what going off actually is, but, go off Chariot I guess?

I'm not here to support your headcanon or discuss it, hell as it stands this thread is over and should be closed, you're derailing the purpose of it.

-By...trying to give reasoning towards a final point about Diavolo's prediction that still may stand? That's derailing to you? Bitch, I started the ******* CRT, who are you to tell me what I am and am not ******* derailing??? Oh my God...

If you want a discussion, move it over to the discussion thread.
This is a CRT, I'm going to blunt and probably abrasive, but as long as I'm not actively insulting you, there's nothing to complain about.

-Not complaining, just wondering why you turned into a dick all of a sudden.

If you're writing a response, I best see hard statements, we're not going to ever accept conjecture, especially conjecture that is contradicted by the very medium. Instead of saying, show.

-Actually, I'm not. I got what I wanted, and even if we don't agree on...that last thing. I still got GER a hefty speed upgrade, even if it isn't Infinite like I had hoped...

 

[Wavingthroughawindow999]

I still hold onto my last point, BUT, it can wait for another post... I'm not arguing back and forth with you all night Chariot, I have things to do and a life to live outside of this wiki. With this message, I bid you, adieu... May we meet on another CRT...once this one is confirmed anyway...

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Saying ***** isn't being aggressive though autocensor makes it look 10x worse now.
And it is what it is, excessive complaining about something that literally happened is bitching, not much beating around the bush there.

Im just trying to help, people get warned from far less and I didn’t know if you knew or not. Ig if thats what you like to do

 

[Chariot190]

I missed this because you keep double posting.

Err, you keep saying this whole ordeal happens after Time Erase but... I don't know how to tell you this, but if you take another look at the final prediction. You'd see that King Crimson...is still in Time Erase, really, take a second look at the scene both in the manga and anime as well. It's almost like he never left his ability, BUT given we know Time Erase's limits of 11 seconds and Diavolo's ability was about to end right then and there after he threw a punch

The vision? Yeah it does, because they say it does, and that's how it works, and that's what he was doing.
He never left time skip though, that IS true, but that's because RTZ activated and then reverted it before he COULD exit time skip, the vision of him punching through Gio though? That was after time skip, it just never came to fruition.

He must've Time Skipped AGAIN after his first Time Erase ended.

As outlined above.

Epitaph's backround in forecasts ALWAYS mirror the background of the future scene it's showing.

No?
What the hell? Even in that very arc we get Epitaphs outside of time skip, of events outside of time skip, without a drawn background, it isn't some secret code, it's just to save on manuscript time so he doesn't have to draw every detail. Like for example, when Diavolo sees Gio "fail" to gain a Requiem, it takes 3 panels of the vision to show anything besides Gio, and only on the 3rd shot, does it show the floor when it zooms in.

If Diavolo's outside of his ability, and will continue to be outside of his ability for the next 15 seconds or so.

What? He can spam it, not that he did, because we straight up know he only did one time skip, because both say as much and we see that very same time skip revert. And he can't land hits inside of time skip even though that's what the vision is showing, him landing the hit, and a whole slew of shit that says he just punched him quicker than he could react.

f Diavolo's going to activate his ability and be inside said ability within the next 15 seconds, the background of Epitaph will show...the inside of Time Erase.

Except when it doesn't, hell in that SAME arc, we have visions outside of time skip, showing just the characters.

Also, have you considered that maybe this is a direct case of unreliable narration?

Nice try. He knows how his ability works dude, it isn't unreliable narration when we SEE him go and throw the punch. The fact the vision shows HIM punching Gio through, and not Gio getting ripped open by nothing is evidence enough.

The only unreliable thing is the fact he was certain it would happen, how it was going to happen? Well my dude he threw the punch, took the steps to do so, and the vision explicitly corroborated that, Gio didn't teleport onto his fist like you're trying to claim.

Really, while Epitaph's predictions may be a 100 percent accurate glimpse into the future, they don't make Diavolo clairvoyant in any sense of the word.

Yes because Diavolo is wrong, the databooks wrong, and the whole sequence is wrong and is actually this thing that was never said or shown to happen.

He's able to get a snapshot from the future, 15 seconds into the future but still in the future nevertheless.

Correct, except it isn't 15 seconds, but ignoring that.

Honestly though, put yourself in Diavolo's shoes for a second in this moment. You should've won, you really, really should've won. Yet, something happens, and the power you seeked didn't choose you. Now not just a minute later, you're below an unknown force, it's aura laying heavily upon you. You're scared, you won't admit it but you're scared deep down of the power the thing infront of you might be wielding. It just shot a hole deep into your hand, an attack your infallible King Crimson couldn't even see moving before it was too late. However, your confident in your abilities, you always have been, so you erase time. Moving towards your target, you gloat obviously while splashing your blood in your enemy's eyes before gloating again. Looking into the future, you suddently realize Fate has deemed you the victor as this prediction, certain to happen absoluetly, sees your enemy impaled on your hands. Drunk on an enormous ego, why would you even begin to question if Fate had a hand in helping you or not. You just want confirmation that your ability was triumphant, and that's what Diavolo got. False hope, that's it.

This is a whole lot fluff to try and justify why everything ever is wrong and your hypothesis is actually what happened.
Like be real, even from a meta-perspective, Araki didn't write that shit for the sake of it, he wrote it because that's just what was happening, it's what we see happen, it's what is said to happen, my dude, it just be like it do.

-By...trying to give reasoning towards a final point about Diavolo's prediction that still may stand? That's derailing to you? Bitch, I started the ***** CRT, who are you to tell me what I am and am not ***** derailing??? Oh my God...

The CRT is about infinite speed. That has long since ended, been rejected.
You continuing the CRT long after for a completely different topic actually is derailing, it makes it hard for staff to read through arguments when the thread and the first half of it had nothing to do with it's about now, it's also misleading OP. You should have made a new CRT for this topic.

Not complaining, just wondering why you turned into a dick all of a sudden.

being blunt isn't being a dick, I want actual proof lad, not conjecture.

-Actually, I'm not. I got what I wanted, and even if we don't agree on...that last thing. I still got GER a hefty speed upgrade, even if it isn't Infinite like I had hoped...

Nothing changed, we already accepted this, for like, 3 years now

Im just trying to help, people get warned from far less and I didn’t know if you knew or not. Ig if thats what you like to do

i might come off as an asshole, but im a nice asshole <3