GERs Speed is outdated

[StrymULTRA]

Actually I said personally that I think it's both based on what we see it do and how it's been used.
The main issue is that we're never explicitly told it's any of them, it's not said in the manga or any guide.
As such, it's open to interpretation to an extent.
But that doesn't mean GER wasn't effected by the time erase, we kinda see it.

Indeed, is because of both being on the same validity as interpretations that we should take both, since is either one of them at 50/50.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

He isnt affected....you have literally no proof, cant believe you buy that crap

 

[Chariot190]

I told that he has both, not either one of them lol

Case and point, Strym says that GER likely has fate resistance, which outright completely invalidates and makes the excuse of GER being bound by fate to lose that situation a complete nonfactor because it would be blatantly untrue at that point as he WOULDNT have been bound and forced by fate to get gouged.
The only excuse to that scene and exchange is invalidated when you give him fate resistance, and if you give him fate resistance then it becomes impossible to say he wasnt barely slower on the draw.
It can't be both, they effect the scene in different ways that reaches contradictory conclusions.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Also no you just take the opposition side because they dont agree with it and their faulty arguments

 

[Chariot190]

He isnt affected....you have literally no proof, cant believe you buy that crap

Bro, you can see that he's effected. Like, you can literally see it in action.

Indeed, is because of both being on the same validity as interpretations that we should take both, since is either one of them at 50/50.

Or it's both, which is imo kinda exactly what we see. But even then, not how it works, worse case scenario, he still got effected by the time skip and wasnt' cognizant, like, you can't just ignore that to say "well it was manual then".
Because we know he was effected when it went off.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It can't be both, they effect the scene in different ways that reaches contradictory conclusions.

Which contradictory showings?

Is either GER ******* with Diavolo and being aware in the Erase, but wanting just to trigger RtZ at the last moment or RtZ activating automatcally and GER being aware of such since Diavolo stated so in RtZ.

Or it's both, which is imo kinda exactly what we see. But even then, not how it works, worse case scenario, he still got effected by the time skip and wasnt' cognizant, like, you can't just ignore that to say "well it was manual then".
Because we know he was effected when it went off.

Good, this puts at 3 scenarios, each one of equal validity, and the likely/possibly is still valid due to "possibly" accepting even less likely ratings.

 

[Chariot190]

Also no you just take the opposition side because they dont agree with it and their faulty arguments

Are you really telling this to the person who spend like 300 posts arguing against the opposition because their arguments were flawed as all ****?
I'll back what's actually warranted, I'm not going to agree with something while ignoring the opposing evidence that has merit the same way I'm not going to disagree with something like this threads original intent because of actual evidence and proof of the contrary.

 

[Chariot190]

Which contradictory showings?

If GER doesnt resist fate then that scene doesnt hard debunk base infinite speed, but only if we assume that GER was forced and fated to lose that interaction no matter how impossible. But if he resists fate, then he was never bound, and yet, the vision had him getting gouged out regardless, meaning he was simply not fast enough to defend because it sure as hell wasnt fate forcing him to lose that meaning no infinite speed.
They can't coexist, you can't have both.

Is either GER ******* with Diavolo and being aware in the Erase, but wanting just to trigger RtZ at the last moment or RtZ activating automatcally and GER being aware of such since Diavolo stated so in RtZ.

GER was ******* with Diavolo, but not in the way you're insinuating, in fact at this point saying he was "******* with" gives a wrong implication as to what that actually entailed. And "just wanting to", so you're actually saying he was just pretending to be effected and somehow had the time erase effects actively effect him still. And yes, GER does move in time erase and Diavolo says as much, after RTZ already kicked in and prior that wasn't an actual thing.

Good, this puts at 3 scenarios, each one of equal validity, and the likely/possibly is still valid due to "possibly" accepting even less likely ratings.

Dude you can't keep saying "so these are the options" while ignoring why some of those options don't fully add up in regards to the context itself.

At this point, actually take it up with Efi, she's the main advocator of "GER was effected by Time Skip and wasn't cognizant".

 

[StrymULTRA]

At this point, actually take it up with Efi, she's the main advocator of "GER was effected by Time Skip and wasn't cognizant".

I think that she should take a really good reading of this thread tho, her current points are pretty much outdated tbh.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Affected where? Literally nowhere, him pretending isnt proof and neither you have to say RTZ can go without him, nothing supports that anywhere

None of the opposition thing has any good counter, neither the epitaph thing yet you wanna count it as if that disproves it, yeah no

You either accept the proposed thing and concede as possibly or we aint gonna reach the end of this like diavolo

 

[Rikimarox2]

Well, looks like we're in for another 200-300 posts bois

 

[BlackDarkness679]

None of effi points are good counters and taking them in consideration when faulty doesnt make you better with this

 

[StrymULTRA]

Efi's opinion isn't absolute either, there are way more mods who are supporters lmao

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Why you still bring them up? Since when we should listen to flawed arguments? You dont take them in consideration when is no basis to do so, let alone when the series itself says otherwise, i will take what jojo says, not her word that ignores its plot

 

[M3X_2.0]

Since @StrymULTRA has asked a lot of staff to comment here, it seems really hard to just tell them to read the arguments. I think it's better to quote the relevant arguments to bring them up.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Since @StrymULTRA has asked a lot of staff to comment here, it seems really hard to just tell them to read the arguments. I think it's better to quote the relevant arguments to bring them up.

I quoted the post from where the new discussion starts

 

[Chariot190]

Affected where? Literally nowhere, him pretending isnt proof and neither you have to say RTZ can go without him, nothing supports that anywhere

Do you REALLY need a complete breakdown and deconstruction of the scene over something you can literally see just by looking at it. You can see that he's effected, there's a reason why his movement is limited and he's being subjugated to the forecasting, that doesn't happen if one isn't effected, which we even see later when RTZ kicks in an he's now able to move just like Diavolo does. Unless you're about to tell me GER can just so happen mimic and replicate the effects that time erase has on a being visually onto himself to fool Diavolo. Nothing to say RTZ can go on without him? You realize that this IS the proof right? This scene right here why, it's visual proof.

None of the opposition thing has any good counter, neither the epitaph thing yet you wanna count it as if that disproves it, yeah no

The opposition has barely any counters, but the counters that are there are kind of undeniable, the Epitaph thing is explicitly hard proof, especially if we plan on giving him fate resistance as the only excuse, the thing you've been saying makes it so it doesnt discredit infinite base speed, would simply no longer apply at all.

You either accept the proposed thing and concede as possibly or we aint gonna reach the end of this like diavolo

I could say the same to you, unless you get some actual proper evidence and don't actively ignore the things that put in a wrench in your proposal, I outright refuse to do so. I'm not going to accept a proposal that's faulty and based on half truths and the blatant ignoring of evidence that suggests otherwise while simultaneously not having enough to counter said evidence, I outright refuse, it's wrong and I'm not going to pretend it's right.

 

[Chariot190]

Why you still bring them up? Since when we should listen to flawed arguments? You dont take them in consideration when is no basis to do so, let alone when the series itself says otherwise, i will take what jojo says, not her word that ignores its plot

What the **** dude. You realize JoJo doesn't actually SAY what what you're claiming you're acting like these things don't exist, sorry but they do and you pretending they don't isn't going to change this. And plot? I don't think you understand what plot entails, this isnt even plot relevant nor does the plot hold any answers to what you're claiming. You can't say "i will take what jojo says" when it doesn't say what you think it does.

Efi's opinion isn't absolute either, there are way more mods who are supporters lmao

It isn't absolute, but neither is your opinion, you've had your chance to speak, she can have her's. And that last bit is false, there's barely any mods who are actually supporters, Efi is one of the few really.

 

[Chariot190]

I think that she should take a really good reading of this thread tho, her current points are pretty much outdated tbh.

Her only two points that hold merit still are the time erase cognizant thing (which literally doesn't change anything, you know that right? Even if GER was conscious, he's still not scaling above infinite due to the following point, only RTZ would) and the epitaph sequence, and she's not the only one for the latter, Damage said as much as well.

 

[StrymULTRA]

To all the new stuff coming here, there are the relevant points:

1. GER having Infinite Speed from moving in the Time Erase is invalidated
2. GER is argued being above BIG and MiH's peak speed from the JOJO A-GO!GO! artbook saying that its None stats are given due to them being non-measurable for that standards of the Jojoverse, however is unknown if such was just for the RtZ ability or the whole of GER, that's why I suggested the new rating "At least MFTL, possibly Infinite. Infinite with Return to Zero"
3. However, there's the doubt of if GER was affected from the Time Erasure before the activation of RtZ, which is what's actually discussed.

 

[Chariot190]

To all the new stuff coming here, there's the relevant points.

1. GER having Infinite Speed from moving in the Time Erase is invalidated
2. GER is argued being above BIG and MiH's peak speed from the JOJO A-GO!GO! artbook, however is unknown if such was just for the RtZ ability or the whole of GER, that's why I suggested the new rating "At least MFTL, possibly Infinite. Infinite with Return to Zero"
3. However, there's the doubt of if GER was affected from the Time Erasure before the activation of RtZ, which is what's actually discussed.

You skimmed a LOT of points, and the 3rd point isn't the actual relevant point of discussion at the moment.
You also didn't list the evidence and information we have that allows us to reach a conclusion and figure out which varying points are of relevance, legit and so on and how certain things should be treated.
And the 3rd point straight up doesn't matter, the dude could have done a backflip and told King Crimson to eat shit before RTZ activated, as long as GER failed to defend against King Crimson in the vision, he cant scale to infinite, only RTZ, and whether it's manual, automatic and so on doesn't matter, if I pulled out a gun and then shot it, I still wouldnt be as fast as it even if was the person who fired it.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

He wasnt affected, i see no affect on him visually, its bs on which you jumped on too out of nowhere and the fate point still stands for the epitaph thing

I know what part 5 has and presented and it says what i said even before you got in the thread to comment vs effi, so no

You used flawed arguments from effi and act as if she is right or has merit, it doesnt and not going believe it especially when earlier to me her responses where "no, no, no, i dont actually believe it cuz thats what i think", thats how we doing now?

Argue all you want defending that interpretation, its innacurate and it will just give a bad reputation being treated as such if we accept this non sense of only RTZ being infinite

 

[StrymULTRA]

Do you REALLY need a complete breakdown and deconstruction of the scene over something you can literally see just by looking at it. You can see that he's effected, there's a reason why his movement is limited and he's being subjugated to the forecasting, that doesn't happen if one isn't effected, which we even see later when RTZ kicks in an he's now able to move just like Diavolo does. Unless you're about to tell me GER can just so happen mimic and replicate the effects that time erase has on a being visually onto himself to fool Diavolo. Nothing to say RTZ can go on without him? You realize that this IS the proof right? This scene right here why, it's visual proof.

The reason why GER's actions were being able to be seen from GER is because at that time it was still below Giorno's control, who doesen't resist the Time Erase. But not just that.

As I told before, he wanted to show to Diavolo how wrong can his previsions be against him, and thus, he didn't immediately blitz him, and as how he spoke, it seemed like that the "surprise" was planned to make Diavolo realize that no matter what he does, he'd still lose even if it was written in the truth that he'll win against Giorno. So, we can say that GER took control of himself when Diavolo was about to hit Giorno, who was fated to lose, and opposed to the fate of his User. Aka, while Giorno was indeed supposed to lose, GER could revert such fate, making it never happening.

 

[Chariot190]

He wasnt affected, i see no affect on him visually, its bs on which you jumped on too out of nowhere and the fate point still stands for the epitaph thing

Then you're blind, are you really going to say that you don't see multiple afterimages and trails emitting from GER? Because news flash, that mean's he's effected by it and isn't in control. Your fate point isnt even valid, we're planning on giving his fate resistance. And best case scenario, even if we don't it becomes at best a doubtful maybe let along as straightforward as you think.

I know what part 5 has and presented and it says what i said even before you got in the thread to comment vs effi, so no

And I don't care, if you know then you also know that the shit you're claiming is teetering on headcanon. Your points before have no relevance to me, I don't care what you and Efi said to each other because at the end of the day that's not important, what's important is two very crucial counterpoints, and as long as said points exist, your conclusion is dishonest at best, lying at worse.

You used flawed arguments from effi and act as if she is right or has merit, it doesnt and not going believe it especially when earlier to me her responses where "no, no, no, i dont actually believe it cuz thats what i think", thats how we doing now?

I don't give a shit WHO made those arguments, those arguments have actual real issues in play and if you're incapable of seeing that then no offense, but I severaly doubt your credibility to be unbiased here. I don't give a shit what she said, even if 99% of what she said was wrong, if that last 1% has backing, then that 1% has back and can't be ignored, which is exactly what you're doing. We're doing things the right way, we're not going to pretend shit didn't happen or outright fabricate scenarios and context to say shit happened a way it very clearly did not.

Argue all you want defending that interpretation, its innacurate and it will just give a bad reputation being treated as such if we accept this non sense of only RTZ being infinite

This isn't an interpretation, the Epitaph scene? It happened, you may not like it, but it happened, and Occam's Razer exists, meaning? If you have to make a bunch of assumptions and things that aren't actually suggested by the source material to make sense of it, instead of like, just taking what we know and see, then no, we don't use that, Occam's Razer says no to that. What's inaccurate is pretending that everything is fine and that there isn't points and evidence suggesting otherwise, i said the same to the opposition and I'm going to say the same to you, it goes both ways. We'll accept it because GER physically is demonstrably not infinite, which is what you don't understand.

 

[Chariot190]

The reason why GER's actions were being able to be seen from GER is because at that time it was still below Giorno's control, who doesen't resist the Time Erase. But not just that.

Ok come the **** on now, why are you making things up, "GER's actions could be seen because he was under Giorno's control", that's absolute complete conjecture that isn't found or even hinted at ANYWHERE in all of jojo media.
It's simply not a thing, made even worse as GER was never under Giorno's control, he was always fully in control of his own actions, you're really going to sit there and pretend that some arbitrary made up rule that GER was being controlled by Giorno that's why he was effected initially is what happened? No, I'm not here to argue conjecture or made up things. Try again.

As I told before, he wanted to show to Diavolo how wrong can his previsions be against him, and thus, he didn't immediately blitz him, and as how he spoke, it seemed like that the "surprise" was planned to make Diavolo realize that no matter what he does, he'd still lose even if it was written in the truth that he'll win against Giorno.

You did say that before, but it's complete conjecture in the notion of the actual events GER was preventing, yeah he was preventing the future comeing to pass, yeah he was talking about how Diavolo would never reach that future, but you know what isn't true? That the vision in Epitaph wasnt actually something that was going to happen, it WAS going to happen and it was going to happen the way shown, GER stopping it from happening doesn't change that in said vision he was demonstrably not infinite. Was it planned? Hell maybe, but has absolutely zero effect on if GER was effected by time skip or the vision Diavolo had, whatever Diavolo did would have ended with that being said, even though GER is likely talking directly to Diavolo in reference to Diavolo saying that his vision chose him still, so yes, if GER proceeds to say "hey your vision does show you things, but it wont come to pass against me" in response to Diavolo saying "Im still gonna win, my vision chose me still", well that's just basic language skills. Regardless, that's irrelevant, doesnt change what we know.

So, we can say that GER took control of himself when Diavolo was about to hit Giorno, who was fated to lose, and opposed to the fate of his User. Aka, while Giorno was indeed supposed to lose, GER could revert such fate, making it never happening.

"he took control of himself when he was effected by Time Erase because he was controlled by Giorno even though if he was effected in the first place he wouldn't be cognizant to take control of himself in the first place".
You're not thinking through the implications of your claims here.
I hope you realize the reason GER would get fate resistance would involve Giorno too fyi, but that doesn't change anything, in the vision.
Yes, GER could revert such fate, doesn't change the fact GER in the potential future simply failed to defend and was barely edged out in that hyper specific situation, which wouldnt have happened if his base was infinite.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

"Plan on giving fate resistance to him", newflash that isnt a thing and neither gonna happen, the fact fate from epitaph shown that scenario counters the idea of resistance to ever going be, you ignore it and side with effi flawed argument

Also it was uncalled for to insult by calling someone blind, if you yourself cant see how unfounded that is defending her claim, he wasnt affected at all, its head canon, RTZ has no indication to say it goes without him, we seen stands doing their abilities in time erase and still did not work against KC ever to harm or be unaffected by it, saying rtz is the exception isnt working

Excuse me but the bias card goes to effi and you at this point, you both argue against the series telling us otherwise and her responses with "no, no, no, cuz i think so" is more then enough, who is biased here in actuality, whether you care or not, it doesnt change this point

Also 99% bs and 1% something relevant isnt in your favor either, if its 99% bs, it is snd that counts more then what little % left which on its own if analyzed ends up bs too

Its not lying or dishonesty, its ignorance to the series telling YOU, that you arent correct

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok come the **** on now, why are you making things up, "GER's actions could be seen because he was under Giorno's control", that's absolute complete conjecture that isn't found or even hinted at ANYWHERE in all of jojo media.
It's simply not a thing, made even worse as GER was never under Giorno's control, he was always fully in control of his own actions, you're really going to sit there and pretend that some arbitrary made up rule that GER was being controlled by Giorno that's why he was effected initially is what happened? No, I'm not here to argue conjecture or made up things. Try again.

Giorno controlled GER as even Trish confirmed lol, he just takes action from himself if Giorno can't defend himelf against attacks.

You did say that before, but it's complete conjecture in the notion of the actual events GER was preventing, yeah he was preventing the future come to pass, yeah he was talking about how Diavolo would never reach that future, but you know what isn't true? That the vision in Epitaph wasnt actually something that was going to happen, it WAS going to happen and it was going to happen the way shown, GER stopping it from happening doesn't change that in said vision he was demonstrably not infinite. Was it planned? Hell maybe, but has absolutely zero effect on if GER was effected by time skip or the vision Diavolo had, whatever Diavolo did would have ended with that being said, even though GER is likely talking directly to Diavolo in reference to Diavolo saying that his vision chose him still, so yes, if GER proceeds to say "hey your vision does show you things, but it wont come to pass against me" in response to Diavolo saying "Im still gonna win, my vision chose me still", well that's just basic language skills. Regardless, that's irrelevant, doesnt change what we know.

Simple, it didn't preidct GER's taking controll, as suggested from this thread, GER itself should have resistance to pregognition since his own actions aren't shown in Diavolo's Epitaph, not Giorno

"he took control of himself when he was effected by Time Erase because he was controlled by Giorno even though if he was effected in the first place he wouldn't be cognizant to take control of himself in the first place".
You're not thinking through the implications of your claims here.
I hope you realize the reason GER would get fate resistance would involve Giorno too fyi, but that doesn't change anything, in the vision.
Yes, GER could revert such fate, doesn't change the fact GER in the potential future simply failed to defend and was barely edged out in that hyper specific situation, which wouldnt have happened if his base was infinite.

Nope, because Diavolo could see Giorno's fate, not also GER's, learn the difference. The User is under Diavolo abilities, but the stand himself isn't, and as I told before, it's because GER acts freerly when Giorno can't fight. So, GER under Giorno's abilities: bound from speed and fate, but when it takes control and is free, then is not.

 

[Chariot190]

"Plan on giving fate resistance to him", newflash that isnt a thing and neither gonna happen, the fact fate from epitaph shown that scenario counters the idea of resistance ever gonna be, you ignore it and sude with effi flawed argument

Dude, I hope you realize that even if we take what you say at face value, there's still the issue Damage brought up in that, things that are 100% impossible wouldnt just be shown randomly fate or not. And since when did you get to decide that? Even Strym agrees with that. Why are you saying that I'm siding with Efi? I'm not siding with anyone, I'm saying it how it is.

Also it was uncalled for to insult by calling someone blind, if you yourself cant see how unfounded that is defending her claim,

Wasn't an insult, it was an observation. I'll defend the claim because it's not actually incorrect, there's actual backing to it.

he wasnt affected at all, its head canon,

And I'll say it again, you're blind, we LITERALLY see him be effected, it happens, this isn't an "oh well maybe this or that", no, we ******* see it happen on panel/screen/etc. This isn't subject to debate, it quite literally happened. And headcanon? I hope to god you're joking because every other thing you've said ignores what we actually see and is based on your own unfounded explanations and conjecture of the scene that isn't actually said anywhere.

RTZ has no indication to say it goes without him, we seen stands doing their abilities in time erase and still did not work against KC ever to harm or be unaffected by it, saying rtz is the exception isnt working

RTZ literally working on panel/screen when GER wasn't cognizant is quite literally the proof we need, that's the indication. Yes, we have seen Stands doing their thing and failing, and RTZ quite literally IS the exception to that, it's the exception to EVERY STAND ABILITY, not just King Crimson's, **** I can even gather guide scans saying as much if forced. And dude, I hope you're unironically saying RTZ doesn't work in erased time and isn't an exception among Stand abilities even though GER's biggest feat is quite literally having RTZ work in time erase and negating it.

Excuse me but the bias card goes to effi and you at this point, you both argue against the series telling us otherwise and her responses with "no, no, no, cuz i think so" is more then enoug

**** off with the Efi thing, did she hurt your feelings or some shit? The very reason I'm arguing against is PRECISELY because the series is contradicting your claims and the only way your claims would be right is if you spat in the face of occam's razer. I don't want to hear you bring up Efi as if that somehow effects my stance here.

Also 99% bs and 1% something relevant isnt in your favor either, if its 99% bs, it is snd that counts more then what little % left which on its own if analyzed ends up bs too

No, if that 1% is true, then that 1% is true regardless of if the other 99% is flawed, the 1% doesn't suddenly becoming flawed because someone said things that weren't, if someone said a bunch of bullshit the said "the sky is blue", the last point doesn't suddenly become wrong. You may not like those points, but they exist and happened.

Its not lying or dishonesty, its ignorance to the series telling YOU, that you arent correct

It becomes dishonest when you outright ignore and pretend certain things didn't happen. Oh, ok, so where does it say that then? Go on, I want an explicit scan saying that RTZ is manual and only manual, that Giorno was killed and GER failed because fate made him lose that exchange regardless of what is said about it, that Epitaph can show things that are outright impossible to occur like getting a tag on a infinite speed character despit binge infinitely slower, GER and RTZ are 100% the same speed with no discrepancy and that GER was always in control and cognizant despite of what we visually see.
I want actual explicit statements here, I don't want mental gymnastics.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Also with avdol we clearly saw getting shot in the head in part 3 and all, which seemed like he was dead, yet its not the case as we seen later

So even IF your part with GER being "affected" was a thing, when it wasnt, we see later its proven false by the fact GER can do stuff like Diavolo can and RTZ being the reason he wasnt affected later is unfounded too, if it was the case, Giorno and others should also be unaffected then yet it didnt, time erase still was in affect, only logical conclusion is that GER was not affected

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

So uh

What happened?

 

[StrymULTRA]

So uh

What happened?

To all the new stuff coming here, there are the relevant points:

1. GER having Infinite Speed from moving in the Time Erase is invalidated
2. GER is argued being above BIG and MiH's peak speed from the JOJO A-GO!GO! artbook saying that its None stats are given due to them being non-measurable for that standards of the Jojoverse, however is unknown if such was just for the RtZ ability or the whole of GER, that's why I suggested the new rating "At least MFTL, possibly Infinite. Infinite with Return to Zero"
3. However, there's the doubt of if GER was affected from the Time Erasure before the activation of RtZ, which is what's actually discussed.

^This, plus the fact that if GER has resistance to Precogn if not under Giorno's control

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

ok

 

[GiornoGiovannaF]

we were so close to finishing this thread

 

[Chariot190]

Giorno controlled GER as even Trish confirmed lol, he just takes action from himself if Giorno can't defend himelf against attacks.

Simple, it didn't preidct GER's taking controll, as suggested from this thread, GER itself should have resistance to pregognition since his own actions aren't shown in Diavolo's Epitaph, not Giorno

Nope, because Diavolo could see Giorno's fate, not also GER's, learn the difference. The User is under Diavolo abilities, but the stand himself isn't, and as I told before, it's because GER acts freerly when Giorno can't fight. So, GER under Giorno's abilities: bound from speed and fate, but when it takes control and is free, then is not.

Ah yes, because Trish would know that even though she's just talking about how GER isn't going rogue like Chariot Requiem did. Not even Giorno knows his Stand is fully sentient, how would Trish know at a glance?

Dude I was in that thread and even mentioned that already, there's a reason that wasn't accepted.

Giorno's fate IS Ger's fate, cut that shit out. Giorno's fate would have been GER saving his ass, the exact same thing applies and you're just grasping at straws now.
The Stand himself is quite literally under his abilities, we can visually see GER effected al the same. GER acts however he damn well pleases, just because he listens to Giorno doesn't mean there's two separate modes or something, GER listening to Giorno is a conscious decision on his part, him listening to Giorno or doing his own thing doesn't suddenly change the **** out of his attributes, or anything, at all, if hew as effected he was effected, end of story.

 

[Chariot190]

^This, plus the fact that if GER has resistance to Precogn if not under Giorno's control

Oh, you're unironically running with literal headcanon now.
I can't do this, I really can't ******* debate someone who makes up new shit every other post to try and justify there claims.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ah yes, because Trish would know that even though she's just talking about how GER isn't going rogue like Chariot Requiem did. Not even Giorno knows his Stand is fully sentient, how would Trish know at a glance?

So all the laser, posing and even almost teleporting aren't a thing that Giorno made nope, it was all GER's even if nothing remotely implied that.

Dude I was in that thread and even mentioned that already, there's a reason that wasn't accepted.

Because other reasons, but we can discuss it again don't you think?

Giorno's fate IS Ger's fate, cut that shit out. Giorno's fate would have been GER saving his ass, the exact same thing applies and you're just grasping at straws now.

Because it was Giorno's fate, only that GER's isn't bound from it.

The Stand himself is quite literally under his abilities, we can visually see GER effected al the same.

Indeed, because if the User dies, the Stand does too.

GER acts however he damn well pleases, just because he listens to Giorno doesn't mean there's two separate modes or something, GER listening to Giorno is a conscious decision on his part, him listening to Giorno or doing his own thing doesn't suddenly change the **** out of his attributes, or anything, at all, if hew as effected he was effected, end of story.

They are tho for the reasons I told before.

Oh, you're unironically running with literal headcanon now.
I can't do this, I really can't ******* debate someone who makes up new shit every other post to try and justify there claims.

More than headcanon I'd call it more understanding implications.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Fate manipulation on its own page literally has probably manipulation in accordance with it saying you can make impossible stuff possible, funny how you think damage word holds more weight then the wiki own page who says otherwise, just shows how easily you are convinced by unfounded claims

Insulting me by saying im blind (which is an insult no matter how you put it) along saying to f off or "she hurt your feelings" is not making you any more right either, the only thing i agree on the previous guy who argued you, was you insulting others and such, on that thing he was ironically right

That 1% as i explained but choosed to ignore if analyzed alone will in the end prove to be wrong, also your sky is blue thing is wrong, it can be dark at night or even yellowish orange or such at near sunset or such, on other planets it can be different in color, so its not true to say sky is blue and its correct without a doubt

If you cant debunk or prove something dont at all, as well as going to retort at insults and the such when proven wrong, you thinking your head canons from someone else have any relevance isnt founded, like it or not

You should have not been swayed by false interpretation which is that exactly

 

[Chariot190]

So all the laser, posing and even almost teleporting aren't a thing that Giorno made nope, it was all GER's even if nothing remotely implied that.

Yes actually, Giorno had his face caved in and was unconscious for that one feat, that absolutely was ******* GER and Giorno had zero say in that. The rest? Sure Giorno may have told him to do something like a normal Stand, and? Ger isnt going to say no **** you.

Because other reasons, but we can discuss it again don't you think?

At this rate I fear what you'd come up with to try and insinuate something that isnt there.

Because it was Giorno's fate, only that GER's isn't bound from it.

And his fate would have been getting saved by GER, **** Epitaph doesn't even work that way, it doesn't single out and pick and choose to show a singular person's fate. No it just goes "here's what's going to happen and is fated to occur in a few seconds", there is no "well it's Giorno's fate, not GER's", it's EVERYONE's fate, it's a single thing.
And, if GER was going to save Giorno, it would have just showed that instead, not King Crimson ripping out Giorno's heart while GER spits out blood because he just had his heart crushed too.

Indeed, because if the User dies, the Stand does too.

Yeah no shit, even though I was talking about GER being effected by time erase, not Epitaph.

They are tho for the reasons I told before.

Your reasons are quite literally "i cant accept this happened so im going to make up that GER somehow varies and there's different modes or something when he's listening and not listening to Giorno". Your reasons arent reasons, they're completely made up.

More than headcanon I'd call it more understanding implications.

It'd be a miracle if you'd understand Occam's razer as well.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

If you would actually bring valid stuff and act differently, people would actually agree with you and not argue for hundreds of comments, yet that seems to be the case almost all the time

 

[Promestein]

What even is this now