Genie (Disney), Jafar (Disney), and Chaos (Disney) Downgrade

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Genie's Imprisoned AP seems to come from Size Changing which isn't allowed for regular physical tiering and scaling to a some goblin who turned into some seemingly very small stars via some kind of power with his Freed key's AP coming from a lifting strength feat and possession/reality warping

Striking Strength comes from Hax seemingly as well with his durability seemingly being in the wrong key

Chaos's Speed has no source

I have no clue what the replacement stats should be

Parallel Downgrade Thread
 
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DarkDragonMedeus

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This looks reasonable, and I agree Chaos doesn't seem to have a reason to be omnipresent
 

Warren_Valion

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Seems fine.

Why is Freed Genie weaker than Imprisoned Genie? Isn't that usually the other way around? It's been a while since I saw Aladdin, but I don't remember it ever being stated he got any weaker.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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Aside from being imprisoned is where he has all those wish granting powers, I don't know what else. But I haven't seen much of the Aladdin verse aside from the first movie.
 

Warren_Valion

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I have the whole trilogy.

But it's been years, I guess you can just scale his imprisoned form as >= his freed form, but he should probably have the statements saying he got weaker on the profile.
 

Antvasima

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I remember that it was stated outright in the local translation of the Aladdin TV show that the freed Genie only had "half-phenomenal almost cosmic powers" instead of "phenomenal cosmic powers" as originally defined, in the context that he had grown much weaker.

Anyway, why should growing as large as a solar system (for example) not scale to attack potency?
 

Antvasima

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Well, if he grew that large, his striking strength should likely be comparable, but I only remember Jafar having that kind of feat.

Does anybody who watched the original English version of the Aladdin TV series remember if it included a comparison of Genie's power before and after he was freed?
 

Antvasima

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Well, I remember that Jafar grew to some degree of cosmic size near the end of the original movie, but not whether he was larger than stars or just planets. I would appreciate if somebody could find a screenshot.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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We use that for calculating the energy required to create/destroy a planet; we use GPE for large sized characters according to DontTalkDT.
 

Antvasima

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We preferably need somebody to check the final scenes of the first movie for us to know the scale of Jafar's power.
 

Antvasima

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Thank you very much.

Going by that scene, what is circling around Jafar seems undefined. It looks similar to stars, yes, but could just be small comets as well.

It seems like we have no good limit to scale him and Genie from then, or at least not based on that particular growth feat.
 
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Thank you very much.

Going by that scene, what is circling around Jafar seems undefined. It looks similar to stars, yes, but could just be small comets as well.

It seems like we have no good limit to scale him and Genie from then, or at least not based on that particular growth feat.
It looks like it's just the night sky on the background, and he didn't actually grow to such large sizes.
 

Jasonsith

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We use that for calculating the energy required to create/destroy a planet; we use GPE for large sized characters according to DontTalkDT.
Actually inverse square law is used according to Ugarik and myself.

And it comes back to which fictional characters fit under which model better in each context.

I can daresay many fictional works portray giants as suit actors behind miniature city backgrounds (if no better feats are overriding).

But this is another topic for discussion. We need scans or clips to check if the statement of "a freed genie is less powerful than an imprisoned genie" is true or... even exists.
 

Antvasima

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Well, Genie definitely said the "half-phenomenal almost cosmic powers" phrase after he had been freed in the Swedish translation, but I do not know if that was stated in the original English.
 

Antvasima

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Perhaps somebody could check for a respect thread for Genie or Jafar, which details the scale of their power?
 
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I mean, If Jafar could become 4-B with Size manipulation, his tier can be Unknown, 4-B with Size Manipulation (Like with Four)
Unknown isn't really necessary. Genie was called more powerful than Jafar even when he had become the most powerful sorcerer in the world. Jafar didn't deny it either, and that's why he even wished to become a Genie so he could have more power. I think they could get 7-B minimum if more feats aren't found for them. I've watched the trilogy only but not the animated series, so I'm not sure if they have something there that might make them stronger or not.
 
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Tier 8 - Low end tier 7 looks kinda consistent, you should ask a calc member to calc some feats
Plz look at what's been said above. It gives reference to new tiering for the minimum.
Unknown isn't really necessary. Genie was called more powerful than Jafar even when he had become the most powerful sorcerer in the world. Jafar didn't deny it either, and that's why he even wished to become a Genie so he could have more power. I think they could get 7-B minimum if more feats aren't found for them. I've watched the trilogy only but not the animated series, so I'm not sure if they have something there that might make them stronger or not.
 

Antvasima

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Well, Genie grew larger than Agrabah to lift it at least, and I think there was a song or joke scene in which he grew to planetary size.
 
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Antvasima

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Does anybody recall the episode in which Genie dated Eden? I think that they both grew to at least moon-size there, but may misremember.
 
I don't think it's supposed to be literal and he has size changing listed on his profile

Edit: In a crossover episode Genie injured Hades really badly with a single punch so that might be usable however his attack potency seems to come from a magical creation feat so he probably should be downgraded
 

Antvasima

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Well, I remember another cut scene in which he grew to planetary size, but not the episode number.

Has anybody found anything useful in any respect threads yet?
 
Genie Respect Thread
"Strength
Striking
Lifting/Throwing
Pushing/Pulling
Other
Durability
Blunt
Piercing
Heat
Energy
Electricity
Explosives
Other
 
Mozenrath Respect Thread
"Strength
Magic-Enhanced
Normal
Durability
"Misc


Magic Gauntlet


General
Energy Projection
Scaling
Objective
Restraints
Pyrokinesis
Electrokinesis
Transmutation
Minion Creation
Illusions
Teleportation
Portals
Telekinesis
Power of Shamash
Genie-Amped
Mozenrath once trapped Genie in a crystal to draw on his magic.

Other


Misc Magical Items


Black Sand
Amin’s Items
Mozenrath once hired the thief Amin Damoola to work for him and let him borrow various magic items.

Other
Apologizes for the long length
 

Antvasima

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That's great. Thank you. I think that we can rate Genie and Jafar as "5-A at maximum displayed size", due to Genie spinning the Earth on his finger then.
 
Eden Respect Thread

Turned into Spoilers to save your eyes
"PHYSICALS

STRENGTH
Aladdin Respect Thread



Strength
Striking
Lifting/Throwing
Pushing/Pulling
Other
Durability
Blunt
Piercing
Heat
Energy
Electricity
Other
"
Abu


Abu is a former circus monkey/master thief and Aladdin’s best friend.

Intelligence/Skill
Thieving
General
Physicals
Strength
Speed/Agility
Durability
Tail
Gear


Magic Carpet


Magic Carpet is a magical flying carpet Aladdin befriended in the Cave of Wonders.

Strength
Speed/Maneuverability
Durability/Resistance
Tassels
Skill
Misc
Jasmine Respect Thread

"
Physicals


Strength
Striking
Lifting/Throwing
Pushing/Pulling
Other
Durability
Blunt
Heat
Electricity
Energy
Sonics
Other
"Rajah


Rajah is Jasmine’s loyal pet tiger.

Physicals
Intelligence/Skill

Hercules Respect Thread
"Feats


Pegasus

Pegasus is Hercules' flying horse pal. It was created for him as a baby out of some clouds, but they only became friends when they were older. He's a little vain and pretty stupid, but he and Herc are true-blue bros. He doesn't talk.

Strength

Speed and Agility

Durability

Other

 
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so in regard to the op, we currently do use size change for ap
 
so in regard to the op, we currently do use size change for ap
Time for downgrades as I said
also what exactly is the reasoning against the goblin feat? I see none in the op
Wrong key and magic attacks/=/physical attacks plus it was Aladdin who defeated the guy not The Genie
 
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they defeat him by making him over use his magic which burns him out. prior to that genie could entrap the goblin, only losing out to transmutation magic
 
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If we use Size Manip to scale to AP regardless of how big the user currently is... then I also oppose the downgrade.
However, two wrongs don't make a right, so I'll point out as well that this shouldn't be the case, as this kind of power is generally displayed as a transformation that raises the user's stats accordingly, inverse square law and all of that.
 
Jesus are you trying to make VSBW a downgrading website??

Lets downgrade Piggy and Goosebumps then
No as this is a place with standards we need to follow also Verse Comparison/derailing isn't a good idea
Cetrion has not been downgraded and there is no standard against using size for ap to my knowledge currently in place

Size Manipulation | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom
I didn't claim that the downgrade already happened
he burns out if he uses too much magic
So they had to outsmart him de-confirming scaling
 
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I did not agree with you. He would just be at that level when he's that big. But he did contend with that goblin for a bit. Only lost to hax.

The way centrion's page works is that she is planetary at that size. Genie would work the same way
 

Matthew_Schroeder

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I disagree that Genie in Aladdin 2 is as strong as he is at the end of Aladdin 1 yeah.

For the same reason that Genie in the show is weaker than he is in the movie.
 

Antvasima

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Here are our current standards:

 

Antvasima

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I thing that we scale by Gravitational Binding Energy for planet-sized characters and above, so Genie would automatically likely be 5-A, but if somebody can find a screencapture image of the feat, that would be appreciated.
 

Antvasima

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He apparently spun the Earth on his finger at some point though. I think that there was a scan linked in a post above.
 
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