General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Transcending]

I think Post-Crisis Trigon can be downgraded.

likely Multiverse level+ (The Monitor ranked his full power on par with that of Jim Corrigan)

The Monitor didn't exactly say Trigon was on par with Spectre, he said both of their powers were above 8000. This doesn't necessarily mean they are on par with each other, just that they are both above those with power levels below 8000.

Also, may I ask why Jim Corrigan is stated to be above Nabu? Nabu matched an Unbound Spectre once.

 

[Deagonx]

My "theory" isn't unsupported, it's the only possible interpretation here which I even explained

Simply claiming that your theory is "the only possible interpretation" isnt evidence.

If you cannot prove it's vague, your claim gets cancelled via Hitchen's Razor.

You are the one making the claim. Until you have evidence for your theory, it's meaningless. You can perpetuate this argument for as long as you like, but it will not be a substitute for evidence.

"Pay the price" could mean different things in other contexts, but not here

Prove that with evidence. Not just your opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

I also find the evidence for this intended upgrade too vague and open to interpretation.

 

[Transcending]

Simply claiming that your theory is "the only possible interpretation" isnt evidence.

Prove that with evidence. Not just your opinion.

It's a price creation pays when PS and Spectre fights. Once again, you haven't even given possibilities of what else it could mean.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

I also find the evidence for this intended upgrade too vague and open to interpretation.

Can you give an alternative interpretation then, please?

 

[Antvasima]

If a very reliable statement regarding the specific extent of the resulting destruction involved had been outlined that had been a different issue, but pay the price doesn't really tell us anything specific regarding what was intended.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you give an alternative interpretation then, please?

That is not required. We do not accept diffuse statements, period, according to our rules.

And creation can also mean anything from the local universe to all of reality combined.

All of this is far too vague for our purposes. Your suggestion will not be accepted, and you are wasting our time by continuing to argue and be unreasonable.

 

[Transcending]

I think Post-Crisis Trigon can be downgraded.


The Monitor didn't exactly say Trigon was on par with Spectre, he said both of their powers were above 8000. This doesn't necessarily mean they are on par with each other, just that they are both above those with power levels below 8000.

Also, may I ask why Jim Corrigan is stated to be above Nabu? Nabu matched an Unbound Spectre once.

@Antvasima; What do you think?

 

[Antvasima]

I also do not think that Post-Crisis Trigon had any feats remotely of the same scale as The Spectre and that it seems like a vague and inconsistent statement to base his entire scaling on.

I think that classic Nabu Doctor Fate was shown to be inferior to the Spectre in a flashback during John Ostrander's Spectre run, but may misremember.

 

[Transcending]

I think that classic Nabu Doctor Fate was shown to be inferior to the Spectre in a flashback during John Ostrander's Spectre run, but may misremember.

Nabu fought Unbound Spectre.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, the Day of Vengeance feat should also be very relevant. Nabu is weaker, but apparently not overwhelmingly so.

 

[Transcending]

Yes, the Day of Vengeance feat should also be very relevant. Nabu is weaker, but apparently not overwhelmingly so.

So do we give Nabu a "possibly higher" and remove Trigon's "likely Multiverse level+"?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems like very reasonable suggestions at least, but we preferably need further input from our staff and knowledgeable members.

 

[Transcending]

I think that it seems like very reasonable suggestions at least, but we preferably need further input from our staff and knowledgeable members.

Do we need a new CRT or can we do it here?

 

[Antvasima]

A new CRT is probably best.

 

[Deagonx]

but pay the price doesn't really tell us anything specific regarding what was intended.

That is not required. We do not accept diffuse statements, period, according to our rules.

Exactly.

Can you give an alternative interpretation then, please?

I am refusing the request for an alternative theory because it's a red herring. It is not my job to put forth an alternative and then argue about which one is more likely. It is your job (or the job of whomever is providing an interpretation) to back it with specific evidence. Blindly claiming "this is the only possible interpretation of this vague idiomatic expression!" is not sufficient.

I also do not think that Post-Crisis Trigon had any feats remotely of the same scale as The Spectre and that it seems like a vague and inconsistent statement to base his entire scaling on.

Trigon is extremely wanked, but I have found that people tend to be extremely resistant to that notion. In reality he doesn't even have universe busting feats or reliable universe-busting scaling in the form of actual fights. It's all vague statements like the Spectre one.

Yes, the Day of Vengeance feat should also be very relevant. Nabu is weaker, but apparently not overwhelmingly so.

If I am not mistaken there was some sort of amp going on. I know of at least one fight against Spectre where his opponent was super charged by a lot of magicians but I am not sure if it was this fight.

 

[AndrewBennet]

It would be pretty inconsistent to rate The Phantom stranger and The spectre to 2A ;high 1C- 1B based on single statement.
jim corrigan Spectre has consistently shown to be weaker than Hal Jordan Spectre and Unbound Spectre . He got bodied by parllax and Antimonitor.

Hal Spectre was the only version who could use the power of logos without getting overwhelmed and considered to be the stronger than any Green lantern entities like Parallax.

Unbound Spectre is the strongest Spectre . He destroyed the lord of orders and chaos.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Nabu is the strongest lord of order . He has said to have power to reverse zero hour event.( I dont have the scan)

Even the likes of Kismet is not comparable to him in Power.
kismet is 2A -higher.

lord of chaos and order are low 1C entities from sphere of gods . They existed before the physical multiverse
2

 

[Deagonx]

What makes them Low 1-C? I'd argue even his 2-A rating is a bit generous.

 

[Transcending]

It would be pretty inconsistent to rate The Phantom stranger and The spectre to 2A ;high 1C- 1B based on single statement.

We never argued for such a high rating tho

jim corrigan Spectre has consistently shown to be weaker than Hal Jordan Spectre and Unbound Spectre . He got bodied by parllax and Antimonitor.

That's Post-Crisis, not Post-Flashpoint

Unbound Spectre is the strongest Spectre . He destroyed the lord of orders and chaos.

Nabu explicitly matched him, and Spectre was amped too iirc

 

[Transcending]

What makes them Low 1-C? I'd argue even his 2-A rating is a bit generous.

In JLD, Nabu and the other Lords of Order were destroying the Sphere

 

[Vondoom]

In JLD, Nabu and the other Lords of Order were destroying the Sphere

I think i once saw a Nabu upgrade thread.

 

[Transcending]

I think i once saw a Nabu upgrade thread.

I think I once saw one by Confluctor, though iirc he didn't use this feat.

 

[Deagonx]

In JLD, Nabu and the other Lords of Order were destroying the Sphere

Did they succeed, or did they try?

 

[Transcending]

Did they succeed, or did they try?

They tried, and they damaged it pretty well if I remember correctly. There were statements about them being able to destroy the whole thing tho

 

[Transcending]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/trigon-downgrade-and-nabu-and-the-batman-who-laughs-upgrade.148717/

 

[Deleted member 2530]

jim corrigan Spectre has consistently shown to be weaker than Hal Jordan Spectre and Unbound Spectre . He got bodied by parllax and Antimonitor.

Hal Spectre was the only version who could use the power of logos without getting overwhelmed and considered to be the stronger than any Green lantern entities like Parallax.

Hal could only use the power of the Logos when he was sent beyond the threshold of consciousness.

The Parallax that Corrigan faced was amped by the chronal energy and residual energy of the Anti Monitor.

The scan you posted compares Spectre's power to a Green Lantern not to the Entities. Even then the fact that Hal was losing control makes it look worse.

Then again Hal Spectre is canonically weaker than Corrigan unless the whole "stripping of power" was changed.

 

[Robo432343]

spectre has infinite attack speed right? his punches travelled through the dc universe and the universe is infinite

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

It would be pretty inconsistent to rate The Phantom stranger and The spectre to 2A ;high 1C- 1B based on single statement.
jim corrigan Spectre has consistently shown to be weaker than Hal Jordan Spectre and Unbound Spectre . He got bodied by parllax and Antimonitor.

Hal Spectre was the only version who could use the power of logos without getting overwhelmed and considered to be the stronger than any Green lantern entities like Parallax.

Unbound Spectre is the strongest Spectre . He destroyed the lord of orders and chaos.

Unbound spectre could honestly get way higher than we have him now. If he wasn't stomped, he would've destroyed all of DC's magic. He's also affected people like Mxyzptlk, depowered Animal Man (who was gonna get upgraded but his threat got Necro'd) and took on Shazam empowered with literally all magic on earth

 

[Robo432343]

I was thinking spectre might have Low 1-C durability because he took a blast from a 5D Imp

 

[Transcending]

No. The ongoing Heralds discussion doesn't apply to New-52, only Rebirth. The scaling for Superrman to these two characters comes from N52. Also, the thread hasn't even remotely reached a consensus yet, so I don't know why you're assuming it will be accepted.

Actually there is a way.

Rebirth Superman can be scaled to Hellbat, and Hellbat can be scaled to N52 Supes.

 

[Transcending]

(Zero Hour would have caused destruction on a similar scale to the Crisis on Infinite Earths if The Spectre hadn’t interfered.

Where is it stated Zero Hour=COIE if I may ask?

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Where is it stated Zero Hour=COIE if I may ask?

This should be wrong. Zero House Parallax had only absorbed residual energy of Anti Monitor. It should be just referring to the fact that Hal was erasing the Universe.

 

[Transcending]

Yeah that description should be removed

 

[Antvasima]

It seems very doubtful given that there was only a single DC universe at the time, yes.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Maybe that key should be 2C rather than 2A.

 

[Transcending]

I am not against it being 2-C

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we preferably need input from a greater amount of knowledgeable members first. Should somebody start a separate revision thread for the issues of contention here?

 

[Transcending]

Well, we preferably need input from a greater amount of knowledgeable members first. Should somebody start a separate revision thread for the issues of contention here?

Ig, though I can't make it unfortunately.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.