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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
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- dc comics
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
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As Lucifer morningstar said, The Void is infinite and Eternal, the portion of it that can be filled in the END amounts to ZERO.
Q: How can a character be 1-A and above without an infinite-dimensional/infinitely-layered cosmology, then?
A: A good way to accomplish this would be to show that whatever state of being in which they exist is completely independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting. For example, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted. This argument generalizes to tiers higher than 1-A as well.
This is basically The Void, NHTkenshin2.
Q: How can a character be 1-A and above without an infinite-dimensional/infinitely-layered cosmology, then?
A: A good way to accomplish this would be to show that whatever state of being in which they exist is completely independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting. For example, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted. This argument generalizes to tiers higher than 1-A as well.
This is basically The Void, NHTkenshin2.
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You did not prove that this “Void” is independent of the number of layers/dimensions.
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Your scan did not mention anything you stated above.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
In Vertigo the Void is independent of the cosmology that's how it's existence is, and it serves as a "background" to the cosmology. If you mean about the statement with creations you can check the DC cosmology revisions on other scans on it and they say what I mentioned above.
That scan alone was to prove it's the background and no matter what's filled in it all would amount to ZERO.
That scan alone was to prove it's the background and no matter what's filled in it all would amount to ZERO.
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Everything is here https://vsbattles.com/threads/1-a-clarification.143225/ and it has been rejected.
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And may I ask why “Void” is independent of cosmology? Is any chance of providing a source for it?
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
As the FAQ said: A good way to accomplish this would be to show that whatever state of being in which they exist is completely independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting. For example, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted.
The Void state of being is complete independent of the number of layers/Dimensions that exists in Mike Carey cosmology as stated by Lucifer morningstar, "The Void is infinite and Eternal, the portion of what can be filled in a portion of it amounts to Zero". And we know Vertigo contains Creations before and after the presence. And in one scan in the blog Antvasima posted it's stated creations rise and fall in Void. Mike Carey cosmology contains several Higher dimensional realm and construct so as Lucifer said no "matter what's filled in a portion of the Void it amounts to Zero" same way it would be "unaffected" even if creations or this constructs are removed.
Nothing I state has anything to do with Kuuzo thread that's about the concept of space being 1-A.
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Also for a further explanation since you quoted one of the FAQs and try to “implement it”, I don't think going an infinite circling argument is worth it but
@Ultima_Reality, @DontTalkDT and @Pain_to12 have explained it.
@Ultima_Reality, @DontTalkDT and @Pain_to12 have explained it.
It's undecomposable, for a verse without infinite Dimensions you need to show that the said character is above dimensions conceptually such that adding or removing any number of dimensions won't matter to them.
You are using the same argument they used, basically through “this void lacks the concept entirely but did not show any feats because it is logical”
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You only need feat that adding or removing any number of dimensions won't matter to you.
Simply because you have fire manipulation, it does not mean you can burn the whole universe into ashes.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Nah, Void aren't really anything though just nothingness and DC has many Void if i'm not wrong yet people don't use those to push tiers just Overvoid and The Void. I only used this to support Antvasima blog as it goes well with the FAQ and Lucifer morningstar statement.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Yes and Creation of the presence contains dimensions and they exist other creations probably with Greater, equal or lesser creation than his and Antvasima blog mentioned 2 strong characters from other creations yet all these in the Void won't matter to it as it would all be "Zero" no matter what's added it would end up being "Zero".
Then I guess it needs to be updated then what tier would the Void be later on?I decided to ask Ultima directly as he wrote that FAQ.
He said that the description is a bit barebones and he intends to update it, but in regard to the Lucifer scan, it does not meet the criteria.
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The void has a clear case for a level of transcendence above creation, so it would be largely about how we tier creation/s. I'd say you can even argue two levels of transcendence as the void contains an endless amount of them.
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It would not matter, not because of dimensions addition or removal, because it is void. This is vaguely taken.
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It is not how I interpret it, you need feat regardless of this all.
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Who talks about void? I am talking about the character, which is Lucifer.
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I am very glad to see that Ultima plans to fix this problem.I decided to ask Ultima directly as he wrote that FAQ.
He said that the description is a bit barebones and he intends to update it, but in regard to the Lucifer scan, it does not meet the criteria.
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I was looking at Post-Crisis Superman's profile and noticed he didn't have Supernatural Willpower. I could've swore he did, but I don't see it there. I don't want to make a whole thread just for adding one ability, so is it fine if I suggest adding it here?
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Alright, here's the justification I propose:
Pre-Death (Is stated to have almost Infinite Willpower, is considered to have will stronger than even his muscles, and increased four Green Lantern's construct's power by 20% by adding his willpower)
Post-Eradicator (Was believed by the Spectre (Hal Jordan) to have the strongest will in creation once his own will started fading, resisted Emperor Joker trying to break him with his will and faith, shut down Etrigan's magic with his will and conviction, overpowered Guy Gardner in a contest of will in an alternate timeline, withstood Gog torturing him for over 200 years, and his will can influence the flow of time)
Pre-Death (Is stated to have almost Infinite Willpower, is considered to have will stronger than even his muscles, and increased four Green Lantern's construct's power by 20% by adding his willpower)
Post-Eradicator (Was believed by the Spectre (Hal Jordan) to have the strongest will in creation once his own will started fading, resisted Emperor Joker trying to break him with his will and faith, shut down Etrigan's magic with his will and conviction, overpowered Guy Gardner in a contest of will in an alternate timeline, withstood Gog torturing him for over 200 years, and his will can influence the flow of time)
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I figured that might be an issue. For what it's worth, the timeline was the same as the regular Post-Crisis timeline up until Jonathan Kent died, so it still was the same character, only going through different events. I don't mind taking it out though.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
When did I ever mention Lucifer morningstar when I was explaining about the Void to NHTkenshin, apart from how he defined it? Is something wrong with you?
Can you tag where I mentioned any statement for Lucifer morningstar? And even if I did say anything about him FYI, the wiki doesn't just use feats it also accepts statements. Literally most characters profiles are based on statement than actual feat done.
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Yeah i was pretty confused, there is definitely nothing that implies it being 1-AI decided to ask Ultima directly as he wrote that FAQ.
He said that the description is a bit barebones and he intends to update it, but in regard to the Lucifer scan, it does not meet the criteria.
Also, why would Elaine even scale to The Void for pushing the “absence of space" in The Void
Pretty sure that doesn't mean she pushed the entire Void
I need some clarifications
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This seems like a very good point.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
No one actually said anything on this but you're right, the question now is why is the Void in vertigo 1-A like the cosmology revision blog said.
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You were trying to scale Lucifer Morningstar in this way.
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Thank you for being reasonable.
Vondoom
Username Only- 395
- 131
Tag where I did above, like I said something must be wrong with you.
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I can't tag intentions. But perhaps I could be wrong about this. If so, I apologize for that.
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Gonna bump this back up since it seems like the cosmology discussion above came to a conclusion.
If anyone needs the citations to evaluate this, I can post them.
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Please do, they’d be needed to add them to his profile, after all.
