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Well, I haven't read many of Alan Moore's stories, so I might be wrong, but from what I've read, they seems in line with what DeMatteis established in his stories.
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
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- dc comics
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having different views doesn't mean it can't be combined, what's more I also talked about this with Elizio that will also combined vertigo cosmology between pre black label and black label. Moreover on DC Vertigo black label brings material from DeMatteis and Moore such as Sea of Brahma and The Great Darkness.
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I share the same thoughts as this. You can find plenty of ways to combine a lot of things in DC. Doesn't mean you should. DeMatteis cosmology is perfectly consistent and fine on it's on. Adding other things only inflates the tiers of those additional works.
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I agree with this.
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You mean like anti-monitor is a creation of TGD? did I see it wrong? Isn't anti-monitor just said to be cursed not created? [Here].
Hecate created the gods didn't the dream? I saw that SOG had existed before and she had gone to a darker place [dark multiverse] [Here]
The voids also vary, yahweh isn't omnipotent either, his plans don't even go beyond the voids, didn't even reach the void yama.
Spirituality is only in the sphere of the gods, that is where the gods of various beliefs are located.HereLike i said, after the holidays, we could focus for the Spiritual Cosmology
why not put it easily in the sphere of the gods but scale it under the limbo?
Spiritual/astral plane part of the collective unconscious.
"The crest of the Collective Unconscious lies above the Sphere of the Gods."put that realms above the sphere of the gods
There's nothing complicated actually
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You're right about the Anti-Monitor being cursed instead of being created by the Great Darkness. This needs to be changed.
A notable difference between DeMatteis and Crisis Cosmologies, for example, is their view of "God" which seems distinctly different. DeMatteis' vision of God contains and surpasses everything and everyone, including the Primordial Darkness (Pralaya), while in Crisis Cosmology, the Light of Creation (Overvoid/Source/Presence) is preceded by the Great Darkness.
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Now, one topic we should address is whether or not the people of the Sphere of Gods scale to their realms, or just a few of them.
From Crisis Cosmology, the New Gods transcend conventional time and their presence deforms time. Darkseid's fall casting a shadow over the multiverse is clearly a metaphor not to be taken literally, but his Godhead is a multiversal singularity with no double from other universes, with all evil consolidated into one point.
From Crisis Cosmology, the New Gods transcend conventional time and their presence deforms time. Darkseid's fall casting a shadow over the multiverse is clearly a metaphor not to be taken literally, but his Godhead is a multiversal singularity with no double from other universes, with all evil consolidated into one point.
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It's been a minute since I last read it, but I believe in Justice League Odyssey Darkseid restored and moved Apokolips back into the Sphere of Gods. Think it was issue 23 or 24 of that comic run.
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This was not his Godhead though, as his Godhead was only restored after Death Metal when all emanations were absorbed.
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It wasn't so much to say that it was his Godhead. It's more about the fact that he restored the entire thing to its full power and then moved it outside of the multiverse and back into the sphere. Though, there's likely some context I'm forgetting about it all.
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Pralaya? She didn't even cause a crisis in the multiverse. She is even defeated by the green [elemental force] and the green is the collective unconscious.
The collective unconscious is part of creation [Here], so it is impossible for Pralaya to be stronger than Perpetua and equate her with TGD.
Here Here
She is just the embodiment of emptiness, while mother night is emptiness itself
Upside down-man > pralaya.
Upside down-man is just a puppet for the great darkness [Here]
Within his dimension his power is so great that, even when empowered by all of the Parliaments working together, the Swamp Thing can only bind him temporarily:
Here Here Here Here Here
And able to kill swamp thing :
Di Sini
So there are no more difficult problems, just put them at the same level as the sphere of the gods
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Pralaya extends far above the divine realms. According to DeMatteis' stories, Pralaya is the primordial darkness from which Creation and the Creator himself emerged and to which they would return.
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After the Darkseid War events, Darkseid was reduced to a baby and in the Wonder Woman series, her daughter, Grail, had stolen the energies of several gods, including Hercules, using a Mother Box to give Darkseid the stolen energies in order to restore Darkseid again, which she partially succeeded in doing after Darkseid stole the energies of Zeus. I don't remember if I'm missing something, but at the time of JL Odyssey, Darkseid was still seeking to restore his power.
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(Moore and DeMatteis have similar cosmologies.)
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This is gonna be really tacky as the New Gods have just about too many anti-feats, which heck, disqualifies them from being platonic/living thoughts. Although, if they're indeed platonic and have just about the same nature as the realms they inhabit, I frankly see no reason why they shouldn't scale to it. Also, the obvious problem it's mostly the 'top dogs' in these realms who've shown a level of superiority over the mortal plane and not just any inhabitants, as they do have 'civilians', if you will. So, even if they do, it should be for a named few.
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Pralaya is the embodiment of nothingness its true form is the void of Brahma itself.
Smile=brahman
Brahman is the top of the hierarchy in Hinduism, has no form and all creation comes from him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
The existence of a smile is beyond mahapralaya [the nothingness] [Here].
Location: Patala/underworld
[The underworld has several nations for each religion].
The sea of brahma is located in the underworld [Here] [Here] [Here] [Here] and naraka is a creation of the sea of brahma.
Pralaya was in the underworld [sphere of the gods].
Brahman/god > brahma > pralaya.
TGD > perpetua > monitor sphere > sphere of the gods[ like underworlds] > [Physical realm]
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Just make it "unknown", I don't even remember if they were able to destroy the new genesis/apocalypse
Darkseid's true form [with amp] is placed the same as the overvoid avatar, namely the source. That means he is equal to yahweh if you agree
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In John's comics nothing about this. Destruction of physical plane is her peak
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In comic Doctor fate Vol 2, through the statement Lord of Chaos, it is very clear that the sea of Brahma will swallow all creation, including order and chaos. That means pralaya is also far superior to the divine realms.
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That was MahaPralaya, but not Pralaya (she's been in Dark League 1 Vol). Btw, divine realms>lords, but in DF context limited to the realm of lords.
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There is not a single piece of evidence that shows that the divine realms>order and chaos, in fact they are entities that from their interactions emerged whole worlds and creation including divine realms
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That's right, even the existence of the sea of Brahma is much deeper than the 7 different realms of the underworld. [Seven realms].
For example:
•patala and hell are versions of Hinduism.
•Egyptian god, anubis from underworld [Here] [Here].
•Greek Gods, hades from underworld [Here]
•Vodou mythology, gate of guine the underworld [Here].
•Norse gods, nilfheim [underworld] and others underworlds [Here]
Even so, still. Their existence is only in the sphere of the gods. If you say omnipotent, omniscient, that is a common thing in every belief.
Does not change the fact, their existence is only in the sphere of the gods, but with different layers.
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Are u really?) Again, there're no context about divine realms...
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This sea and that's from John's comics are different things. This comparison is inappropriate.
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Ayo what? DeMatteis' cosmology doesn't even have anything to do with the multiverse map and also in Doctor fate Vol 2 #10 when the Lord of Order and Chaos meets Darkseid, it is clearly stated that Darkseid's evil is still part of the Lord of Chaos.
even the existence of chaos and order exists in every plane and every level of being and consciousness including divine realms.
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Yeah, it doesn't directly mean that about it is the divine realms, but if you really pay attention to the context narrative, words like the universe refer to the totality of creation including divine realms.
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What's different?
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Then? I also know that
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He's not anywhere, he's on his own realm
Only death of the endless is anywhere
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I don't know why we think Pralaya's destruction was only limited to the physical plane. John's statement literally tells us everything but the House was gone.
It was said during the beginning everything came from that Sea and will return. Zatanna literally asked Pralaya to take “everything” back and that “everything” was erased from all corners and only the void of Pralaya remained.
As for the Lucifer story. They’re connected to the Sandman reboot lore. Which has nothing to do with Matteis’ Cosmology. So we can't use that version with the Matteis version because they're not intertwined in canon.
It was said during the beginning everything came from that Sea and will return. Zatanna literally asked Pralaya to take “everything” back and that “everything” was erased from all corners and only the void of Pralaya remained.
As for the Lucifer story. They’re connected to the Sandman reboot lore. Which has nothing to do with Matteis’ Cosmology. So we can't use that version with the Matteis version because they're not intertwined in canon.
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Don't just look at the difference, the difference is not that big, if you say the story is not the same. This Lucifer doesn't even follow the storyline of 2000's Lucifer.
Because there are infinite multiverses located in the greater omniverse. that makes all the storylines canon [another version of multiverse], I think it's okay to use that feats.
The important thing is that the layer of existence does not change, so it doesn't look strange.
smile/brahman > brahma > true form pralaya > Lucifer > odin/achiless > lord of chaos.
the similarities are clear:
•The concept of divinity is also the same, explaining the concept of divinity in Hinduism.
°the sea of nothingness is part of brahma sleep.
°The Ocean void of Brahma created naraka and perhaps the entire realm of the underworld, because it was different from the others [deeper than all the realms of the underworld].
°Even Yahweh's plan did not reach that place.
In the Concept of Hinduism, the story is also like that:
°Pralaya is part of the Brahma Ocean
°there is a cycle, the beginning is the end, the end is the beginning. [a concept like this only existed in the Sphere of the gods].
°Brahman/smile beyond the sea of brahma/pralaya.
°yahweh is one of the most Powerful gods that ever existed [only in the sphere of the gods], even his plans did not reach the sea of brahma.
°brahman/smile > yahweh/lucifer > odin/achiless [gods in the sphere of the gods] who is stronger than lord of order
According to dmatheis comics, smile >> lord of order.
The current story only explains the layers of existence more clearly.
Stories about the creation of everything, Including
naraka [Hell in Hinduism], the creation of concepts etc, Brahman In the story of Lucifer also creates gods who have their own concepts, such as the goddess of misfortune.
Every god is the creator of everything according to his servants and once again, things like this only exist in the sphere of the gods.
so perpetua > monitor sphere > sphere of the gods
Do you agree with my opinion?
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Every writer's has their own ideas and continuity in each comic and you can't equate idea Synder&Tynion's omniverse to the continuity of DeMatteis and Vertigo.
That's true but it has a different way working. in DeMatteis continuity the sea of brahma is treated as a place where everything will end and transcend all levels of existence. then in Lucifer vol 3 the sea of brahma is just a sea that's outside Yahweh's plan and has no further explanation for this.
That is an explanation the tree of life kabbalah and all its sefirot, Which has nothing with the concept of Hinduism.
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One plane A may be clearly superior to another plane B, but entities in plane A are not automatically superior to entities in plane B. Sphere of the gods was designed for the gods. Therefore, it is not a correct idea to directly say that the inhabitants of the monitor sphere are stronger.
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I don't equate it with a story. it's just that the layers of existence are like that.
The story of Lucifer also contains religious elements, it also carrying the concept of a dmatheist story about the sleep of Brahma and the Lord of order and the Parliament of trees.
Don't you understand? all gods are the creators of all things and end of all things, the concept of divinity only exists within the sphere of the gods.
if it's too pushy, is Mystery House superior to the Overvoid? because everything is gone except the house of mistery
So logically, all that is meant is the world he knows/created. since there was a layers of existence outside his world, higher realm like monitor sphere, he definitely didn't know about it.
maybe that's the reason why He said He was the creator of all things.
Answer my question, is brahma a divine concept?
[Concept of Hinduism] [Pralaya concept in hinduism].
Where do you think the concept of a gods/hindu gods like Brahma fits in the DC universe? fifth dimension imagination?
Is it above the monitor nil? the overvoid? could cause a crisis? logically, that only applies in the sphere of the gods.
Indeed, there is no further explanation, the domain was not damaged/attacked by the hunting god. Surpassing a god's plan [one of the strongest] is an incredible feat.
I'm not equating their systems, I'm just talking about a cycle of beginnings and endings? it is only in the realm of the gods. even the apocalypse too.[Here Here] [Here] [Here]. Also [WW]
The fact that cannot be denied is that JMatheis only explains the concept of divinity and the divine realm only within the realm of the gods, yup SOG. Each god is a creator and destroyer
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But prime mandrak is super strong, in hyperstory. Defeated by plot armor. How the lower layers of hierarchy/existence, reach/interact with them without a story plot?
3Dimensional > 2Dimensional
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@Ramasugita11 I reiterate that, DC cosmology has been divided into its each continuity namely the cosmology crisis and in the future is spiritual cosmology. where spiritual cosmology has no connection with crisis cosmology, which means there will also be no monitor world, fifth dimension, sixth dimension and also crisis event material in that cosmology.
