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Frisk and Photoshop Flowey should not be Tier 8

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FantaRin_The_First said:
Geno! Frisk is just weird with the scaling. - have to mention that I am going to use this video serving as evidence to back up my claim - like, they can cancel their Genocide at any time they want and proceed to go into the neutral route, even after they fight Undyne the Undying and Mettaton Neo, to fight Asgore and Omega Flowey. You know what happens next, so I won't bother to explain it.

Okay, what I am getting at is that Geno! Frisk should, in theory, scale to Neutral Frisk since they are technically able to perform the same feats as they are literally the same person... Actually, this is now making me wonder if separating Geno/Neutral/Pacifist is even necessary, to begin with. Other than Geno Frisk's Fear Manip, they can all do the same things that Neutral/Pacifist Frisk can do, and can still do so if the Player wants to screw with the monsters before killing them.

... Okay, I am starting to think this topic is worthy of getting is a separate CRT thread... or if this topic should stay here since this is still regarding an 8-B tier and Frisk but in the vein of if a Genocide Frisk is capable of obtaining such a tier.
Click to expand...
It really should.

Btw, I don't think I've said that Neutral Frisk was 8-B.
 
Oof, my b. I think... My point was mainly referring to the fact that Frisk's Wiki Page has their Neutral/True Pacifist Key as an At Least 8-B in their AP and Durability due to them doing minimum damage to a Weakened Omega Flowey. I am not considering Geno! Frisk to scale to their Universe + Durability, but I am considering Geno! Frisk should scale to their At Least 8-B portion due to the fact that an LV 17 (or LV 19, if you spare the two royal guards) Frisk can still fight Asgore and Omega Flowey, meaning, Geno! Frisk, in theory, has access to the Determination they had when fighting Omega Flowey, and... uh... ye, Fantathinks this is now Separate CRT Worthy.

Sorry for getting off-topic, guys,
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Oof, my b. I think... My point was mainly referring to the fact that Frisk's Wiki Page has their Neutral/True Pacifist Key as an At Least 8-B in their AP and Durability due to them doing minimum damage to a Weakened Omega Flowey. I am not considering Geno! Frisk to scale to their Universe + Durability, but I am considering Geno! Frisk should scale to their At Least 8-B portion due to the fact that an LV 17 (or LV 19, if you spare the two royal guards) Frisk can still fight Asgore and Omega Flowey, meaning, Geno! Frisk, in theory, has access to the Determination they had when fighting Omega Flowey, and... uh... ye, Fantathinks this is now Separate CRT Worthy.

Sorry for getting off-topic, guys,
Click to expand...
Fanta is fine.
Now, now, you can make the CRT if you want, this one ain't going anywhere.
 
Ah, thanks, Godly.

It is just that this topic is making me think about Genocide Route a bit too deeply. Namely, how that Frisk scales to the other routes. This isn't like Fate Stay Night in which each route's Shirou gets progressively stronger than the last and are somewhat different from each other: all three Frisk are the same in terms of abilities and determination, with the exception of Undyne and Mettaton (to a small degree), every enemy is about the same strength level... meh, just things to think about in the future
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Ah, thanks, Godly.
Click to expand...
Charmander works.
FantaRin_The_First said:
It is just that this topic is making me think about Genocide Route a bit too deeply. Namely, how that Frisk scales to the other routes. This isn't like Fate Stay Night in which each route's Shirou gets progressively stronger than the last and are somewhat different from each other: all three Frisk are the same in terms of abilities and determination, with the exception of Undyne and Mettaton (to a small degree), every enemy is about the same strength level... meh, just things to think about in the future.
Click to expand...
Those are valid concerns, yes. If you are capable of finding substantial evidence, it's probably a good idea to make a CRT in the future.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Ah, thanks, Godly.

It is just that this topic is making me think about Genocide Route a bit too deeply. Namely, how that Frisk scales to the other routes. This isn't like Fate Stay Night in which each route's Shirou gets progressively stronger than the last and are somewhat different from each other: all three Frisk are the same in terms of abilities and determination, with the exception of Undyne and Mettaton (to a small degree), every enemy is about the same strength level... meh, just things to think about in the future
Click to expand...
tho, i think sans should not be 9-A since he did Telekinesis, yes. But anyway he dealed only 1 HP
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Hmm... Have to ask if we can use this calc for Omega Flowey in any way? Or is it redundant?
Click to expand...
Is only usefull if the Tier 8 ratings are removed and if (Big, gigantic, collosal IF) you want to argue that Frisk's difference in determination between that moment and 10 minutes ago when they were fighting Asgore is neligible.
 
Rodri_Dante said:
Is only usefull if the Tier 8 ratings are removed and if (Big, gigantic, collosal IF) you want to argue that Frisk's difference in determination between that moment and 10 minutes ago when they were fighting Asgore is neligible.
Click to expand...
if we scale (or downscale) asgore from a tier 8, then toriel becomes tier 8, and then undyne the undying becomes tier 8, then mettaton NEO becomes tier 8, and then genocide frisk becomes tier 8 (which is based), and then sans of all people become tier 8.

basically, once asgore gets downscaled from a tier 8, suddenly 5 other people who shouldn't have that become tier 8.
 
FarerPurple said:
if we scale (or downscale) asgore from a tier 8, then toriel becomes tier 8, and then undyne the undying becomes tier 8, then mettaton NEO becomes tier 8, and then genocide frisk becomes tier 8 (which is based), and then sans of all people become tier 8.

basically, once asgore gets downscaled from a tier 8, suddenly 5 other people who shouldn't have that become tier 8.
Click to expand...
I mean... it would go more like "Asgore goes further into 9-A for being able to harm someone that barely survives a 8-C attack", then a bunch of scaling shenanigans.
 
Rodri_Dante said:
The distance between the barrier and Napstablook's house is barely above 1km, and Napstablook describes it as "a flash of light". That's all the info.
Click to expand...
Well, it was strong enough that the light could knock on the door

Will be using -25,00, that's the mininum to cause eye pain.

-Lstar = 25,00−26,74−2,5log(10)((3,846×10^26)×(3,32194512660271E−14÷0,00001581)^2) = -4244929261.84 W,
-Lstar = -4244929261.8
Or Lstar = 4244929261.8 W
That's 4244929261.8 J/s (8-C, Building level)

Not bad, a casual 1,06 tons feat, huh?

Btw, the light reached the entire underground, so the calc is very, very underestimated. I will actually put together (or find) a map of the entire underground connected, then scale it to the very end of the ruins.
 
... Holy shit. Is it possible to add this to Flowey's profile? Like, uh... Give him At Least High 8-C since he should be able to do it even when he's weakened as hell by the souls rebelling? ... Wonder if Frisk scales to it in any way. Probs not, tho.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
... Holy shit. Is it possible to add this to Flowey's profile? Like, uh... Give him At Least High 8-C since he should be able to do it even when he's weakened as hell by the souls rebelling? ... Wonder if Frisk scales to it in any way. Probs not, tho.
Click to expand...
Flowey? You mean regular Flowey? Omega Flowey is already 8-A, he doesn't need this, but we can likely add as a justification, since the feat was literally super casual
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Flowey? You mean regular Flowey? Omega Flowey is already 8-A, he doesn't need this, but we can likely add as a justification, since the feat was literally super casual
Click to expand...
Ye, I meant Omega Flowey. Maybe... At Least High 8-C+ to 8-A? Does that work? Fanta thinks this should also apply to Omega Flowey when he is in his Weakened State (8-B), but it is up to you.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Ye, I meant Omega Flowey. Maybe... At Least High 8-C+ to 8-A? Does that work? Fanta thinks this should also apply to Omega Flowey when he is in his Weakened State (8-B), but it is up to you.
Click to expand...
I don't think that'll work. He was empowered by the 6 SOULs when he performed the feat, so it wouldn't make sense to scale it to a version where the SOULs are trying their best to **** him over.

His current rating is:
"At least 8-A, likely far higher", due to the inflation in value (towards infinity) when he reaches 7 SOULs, so 8-A is already acting as a minimum.
 
Thanks, Charm! Don't really have much else to say, and uh... Welp, I'm going to go back on replaying Undertale and watch let's play to make sure if it is a good idea to make a CRT to abolish Frisk's Genocide Key in its entirety.
 
Well, rewrote the OP again.

Also, where are those "supporters and knowledgeable staff"? So far only people that were already here commented.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Flowey? You mean regular Flowey? Omega Flowey is already 8-A, he doesn't need this, but we can likely add as a justification, since the feat was literally super casual
Click to expand...
Heyah.
What about giving Flowey Kilometers or higher range since he could absorb souls?
 
FarerPurple said:
if we scale (or downscale) asgore from a tier 8, then toriel becomes tier 8, and then undyne the undying becomes tier 8, then mettaton NEO becomes tier 8, and then genocide frisk becomes tier 8 (which is based), and then sans of all people become tier 8.

basically, once asgore gets downscaled from a tier 8, suddenly 5 other people who shouldn't have that become tier 8.
Click to expand...
Then.
It's nearly 10 Tons.
5×10=50
50+50=100
100×6=600 Tons Flowey.
Fun.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
No human in the war was necessarily at peak Determination. This point and this reply is moot.
Click to expand...
also there's that line where even though it was a war, not a single human soul was taken

so the average human would be like 9-A+ to 8-C in the war

BUT the mages who made the barrier would certainly be 8-B since... well, you need 8-A+ to destroy it haha
 
XVII said:
also there's that line where even though it was a war, not a single human soul was taken

so the average human would be like 9-A+ to 8-C in the war

BUT the mages who made the barrier would certainly be 8-B since... well, you need 8-A+ to destroy it haha
Click to expand...
The barrier is Low 2-C.
 
FarerPurple said:
Durability: Universe level+ (Unaffected by their destruction of the game), the ability to SAVE & LOAD and Immortality makes them extremely difficult to killyes. chara survives the universe ending, giving them universal Durability
Click to expand...
Wait.
Chara's durability WON'T upscale from Frisk's if for example somehow Undertale becomes High 1-B?
 
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