Frisk and Photoshop Flowey should not be Tier 8

[GodlyCharmander]

I don't think he has the power to do that off the joke battles form

Don't worry, I'll just say my comment was not ironic.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Ok, nevermind, it was a problem, not a question.Ok, why did Asriel have access to that 8-B power if he wasn't determined?

Why even he have to be Determined?
It's clearly known that Soul Absorb turns you into "super mega ass broker" without your will to.

Well, if Asriel had done that too at least, then I wouldn't have any problem. But that didn't happen.

You can't say that tho, no one ever seen Asriel at that point, there was only Monster telling story, but I doubt that they even seen Asriel die.
And I'm doubt because they even said about Chara's plan not correctly.

And tho, Base Undyne COULDN'T resurrect, she just melted. And about Asriel death, he obviously died like his parents.

Or, hear me out, the 6 humans never had 8-B AP.

That probably unknown, but at least they potentially could be higher than 9-A since their DT downscale from Frisk.

That's half of the justification for DT being Soul Power down the drain

By "not fully" I meant another thing but ok.

My headache is catching up to me because I don't understand what you're arguing for here.

Then TL;DR your position at this point.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Why even he have to be Determined?

Because everyone and their mother is saying that DT is Soul Power. Stick to it or drop it, don't do both.

You can't say that tho, no one ever seen Asriel at that point, there was only Monster telling story, but I doubt that they even seen Asriel die.

And I doubt that that those monsters saw Asriel leaving Chara's corpse in the center of the village, him not fighting back or him smiling and returning. Almost as if they knew more than they should and the dialogue was just exposition.

And tho, Base Undyne COULDN'T resurrect, she just melted. And about Asriel death, he obviously died like his parents.

Yes, that's the problem. Why is Undyne capable of denying death to an extent, but Asriel who should logically have more determination can't?

That probably unknown, but at least they potentially could be higher than 9-A since their DT downscale from Frisk.

Is not unknown. They died to monsters. They couldn't have been 8-B.

By "not fully" I meant another thing but ok.

Then what's all that tangent about the Glyphs being written a millenia ago?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Because everyone and their mother is saying that DT is Soul Power. Stick to it or drop it, don't do both.

I'm actually sticking to it, just don't understand what you're trying to say.

And I doubt that that those monsters saw Asriel leaving Chara's corpse in the center of the village, him not fighting back or him smiling and returning. Almost as if they knew more than they should and the dialogue was just exposition.

Agree, I don't believe that dialogue.

Yes, that's the problem. Why is Undyne capable of denying death to an extent, but Asriel who should logically have more determination can't?

Then I'm about to cut through your words and ask.
Why Frisk didn't ressurect when they died in game?
And that "Refuse" happen only in maximum-DT use, and I doubt that the Asriel or Chara wanted to refuse shit.

Is not unknown. They died to monsters. They couldn't have been 8-B

Hilarious to see that, invisible superiority....

No, in-game nothing congrats that they all died from something like that.

And about 8-B, IIRC I said that they potentially are 8-B, but unknown did they used it in couple of RESETs.

Then what's all that tangent about the Glyphs being written a millenia ago?

Yeah, why you're using Library statements against Laboratory statements?

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I'm actually sticking to it, just don't understand what you're trying to say.

If DT is Soul Power, and Asriel had enough power to take down the entire village, he had to be determined. If he wasn't determined, then he shouldn't have access to that power.

Agree, I don't believe that dialogue.

Despite everything but Asriel's motivation to go to the Surface (Which is something only he and Chara knew) matching?

Then I'm about to cut through your words and ask.
Why Frisk didn't ressurect when they died in game?

My guess is that different characters are more or less "efficient" with their usage of determination.

So for example, Flowey has less determination than Frisk so they are unable to load, but because he's more efficient he's still stronger and can nearly one-shot Frisk.
Undyne the Undying is in a similar boat: she has less determination that Frisk so she can't take away their control over the timeline, but she's more efficient so she's stronger than Frisk.

And that "Refuse" happen only in maximum-DT use, and I doubt that the Asriel or Chara wanted to refuse shit.

When I said "refuse to an extent", I meant what Undyne does in the neutral route. Also, same problem as before: If Asriel wasn't determined and determination is Soul Power, then what was the power to destroy the human village?

Hilarious to see that, invisible superiority....

No, in-game nothing congrats that they all died from something like that.

If they didn't die in the hand of a monster, then the only possibility left is suicide (Can we say that that here? Meh, guess I'll find out). If that's the case, why are we considering their souls to have "8-B levels of determination"?

And about 8-B, IIRC I said that they potentially are 8-B, but unknown did they used it in couple of RESETs.

Then why did you write...

And even thought, since every child could RESET, then they all 8-B, and they all gave up and fell from Asgore hands.

...like it was an objective fact?

Yeah, why you're using Library statements against Laboratory statements?

I didn't talk about the entries of the true lab. Everything I mentioned about the book in the library was to show that the idea of the Glyphs Waterfall getting one detail wrong is not "an outright horrible argument" when even after an undefined amount of research time the absolute nature of souls is unknown.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I like going against the narrative.

U wrong

Both of you, stop. I will get someone to close this, it was already rejected under the arguments Dante presented, so insisting on arguing with him is not correct, Origin.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

So we both have problems with the opposition but we need to shut up?
No thanks, that's not how you reach a conclusion.

 

[DaReaperMan]

You mean the conclusion you want and will stonewall until you get? Every supporter who's commented here and two staff have all disagreed with this CRT, it is rejected, end of story, yeah?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So we both have problems with the opposition but we need to shut up?
No thanks, that's not how you reach a conclusion.

Nah. You can have all the problems in the universe, but two staffs voted against the downgrade, plus a lot of supporters too. Two staffs are more than enough to reject a thread outright. Your arguments are interpretative, and didn't convince us.

The conclusion has been reached about 20 hours ago, you're both just rambling.

 

[KingTempest]

Appears to be rejected by many including staff.

Closing