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Fixing some missing scans/broken links and some haxs additions for Devil May Cry
- Thread starter Mister6ame6
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- #162
Well, technically what Earl posted above, but he seems to give up DMC threads.
So, nothing now need to be discuss basically.
So, nothing now need to be discuss basically.
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Well I would still like to hear why some people disagreed with fate manip for the Dice game.....seems legit to me.....
Oh and some neutral mods reading and approving this would be great...
Oh and some neutral mods reading and approving this would be great...
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- #164
Yeah, that would been good to know their reasons for disagreeing with fate hax from the dice game.
I called DarkGrath and now i am waiting for him to have time to come to this thread.
I called DarkGrath and now i am waiting for him to have time to come to this thread.
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It's a mix of "he destroyed the object that controlled his fate, not that he resisted the fate hax from it" (as the dice isn't immune to breaking) and "he was still somewhat fate haxed as he did have to fight opponents once after breaking the dice".
I thought i had put this in my post above, but apparently i haven't, so imma leave this here.
Yeah this.
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- #166
The lore of the game literally state to you that you cannot progress in the game unless you strike the dice and that they control Nero's fate. So Dante breaking the dice is a pretty blatant feat of resistance for him and he needing to fight the others demons after breaking the dice don't have anything to do with his resistance to fate hax.
Glad to hear that.
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So, the only person against this just scooped out of here. Can we get some mods to check the sandbox? I would rather get some here instead of only us, as you saw the bleach thread got somewhat rushed (from what I was told) and I don't think something similar would benefit us here.
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- #168
Agree.
But i not sure about which staff we should call.
But i not sure about which staff we should call.
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any staff member who is not biased is a great option, I was thinking of asking Dragonsmaster to come since he has experience dealing with this kind of hax and he is a neutral party here too, I already asked Wok and AKM to check the sandbox and the thread so lets wait
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- #170
Good idea call him here to evaluate the thread
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How do you strikethrough text on this site??
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Lel....lazy me , should have checked that.....but why doesn't ~~this work~~.....
Oliver_de_jesus
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the wiki (this new and old version) does not use the same system as discord.
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I don't agree with Time Manipulation via that
Guys, this is a big thread, don't add more stuff in the comments because people may lose track of what is being discussed
I have some problems, I ask you to wait for my post
Oliver_de_jesus
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Yes, let's focus on this one first, then another for the other things that will come out later
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I disagree with Higher Regen in Demon Form because they are already at that state, with the exception of DT users (Half Demons), keep in mind that DMD isn't canon
I also disagree with Dimensional Travel for them in parts, the connection between Human and Demon Worlds was severed and the scan for that is about one time were their connection was okay, also, the novel explains that they come to the Human World via portals and gaps, even Dante needed one and he has feats of Dimensional Travel, so they can travel to other dimensions but not Human-Demon world
Agree
Agree
Disagree with adding Soul Hax to Trish since she never had to deal with a Soul-Based-Core demon, we can scale, let's say, Regen to all demons because the series showed us that is tied to their physiology, but Soul Hax isn't related to that, but tied to feats more than anything else, so I don't remember DMC3 Dante having Soul Hax (Dante made his Soul Hax feat in DMC1 against Demons possessing dolls, so he should have in that key, unless I'm forgeting a feat) and same goes for Vergl and Nero, Lucia makes sense, Baul and Modeus too, why V's summons ?
Killing "regular" demons isn't soul hax since they are physically there, harming them is normal damage, the difference to the Dolls in 1 is because they aren't their actual bodies, Dante has to attack their soul by hitting their doll body in order to do something, it's the same case as Castlevania Characters Soul Hax (some of them, that is)
By that, we upgrade them to 2-C via fusing, warping and etc 2 Universes, which I agree but I don't know if it's your intention here (An God Tier Ap Upgrade), I believe a specific thread for that should be better, but in case that's your plan, I completely agree
Having the same power source is one thing, what you do with said power is another, depends on your creativity, skill or what you learned to do and you didn't, we can only scale their physiology (resistances and innate stuff) but not what they do with their own powers
Disagree with Time Hax for Vergil, there is 0 statements about the moves that slow the target being done via Time Manipulation, the game describes as based on Air manipulation. That page called "Space-Time fissure" but the official name in game is just "Void Slash". Stopping foes isn't Time Hax without statements, tk can do the same, paralysis inducement aswell
Disagree with thousands of km for range, is very clear that Lady wasn't thousands of km away from them, the temen ni gru isn't that high even reaching the clouds which are about tens of kms
I agree with Low Godly only if it's "over time" and not applicable in combat
Urizen's haxes for Vergil are out of character, but I agree
Agree
Agree
Agree
DMC1 Dante could exit Mundus' dimension, however he had DSS, agree with the rest
Note guys, since you added more stuff to the sandbox after Glass' posts, you should ask him to take a second look
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I mean, in the anime we see demons being in human form when possessing humans and they are also capable to transform in their demon form pretty casually there. Won't that kinda prove that they have they demon form too and they being in their demon forms in the games just give than superior regen regardless? And DT is not only exclusive to half breeds considering that Lucia is a artificial demon and she can also transform in DT too
They state in DMC5 that, since the barrier that is separating the Demon World and Human World is going down, demons can manifest in the Human World in they true forms and since we know that the ''barrier'' they are mentioning is Sparda's seal won't that prove that they can use dimensional travel between the Demon World and Human World? Since when the worlds are sealed they can only sends they consciousness via portals and gaps like you said. But that was because of Sparda sealing the worlds not they being incapable to travel between than.
i Will respond the soul hax tomorrow because is too late for me now
My main intention for now is just to upgrade the Demon World's haxs and demons resistances to 3D for 4D . The 2-C upgrade is definitely gonna need his own thread because is going to be controversial as hell to apply on this thread alone.
We are only scaling resistances and innate abilities, What they do with their own powers is only what they showed to be capable off in the series.
Ok, than we switch to Air Manipulation and Telekinesis for Vergil than.
Than just switch to tens of kilometers than.
Fine. But i already putted there as not applicable in combat as you and the others already requested.
Agree, Vergil is not going to use than in character, but should be on her page regardless
I think is more akin to the resistance to sealing, since he can travel between the two worlds when they are still sealed by Sparda in the past, thanks to the perfect amulet and for the others explanation that i gived in the dimension travel section
Like i said in the dmc discord, i only added social influence, limited toon force and energy absorption for Dante, nothing more than that.
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Its okay.....people should come up and check out new developments anyway....and provide their opinions....
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Well, could be, I don't really buy it because they are demons disguised as humans, assuming their natural true form
But if the regen feats scale to their human disguise (like Alice, for example), then we can just say that even supressing their true form, their regen is that good, and that it should get better when releasing their true being, works for me
It was stated in the novel or the actual game ? Because until BTN, they needed gaps and portals to come, if the events in DMC5 is what made the barrier get weaker and allow them to travel, then yeah I guess it's fine then. But if it was in the novel, then it means those gaps and portals are more frequent because of the barrier getting weaker
Not that it nukes Dimensional Travel for them anyway, since they have other feats that don't use Human and Demon World Travels
I understand, but accepting DW as 4-D already upgrades them to solid Low 2-C by default, because it needs DW being a separated Time-Space
I'm talking about that dimension that he created as battlefield against Dante, it wasn't the DW, and Dante got out of it after the fight
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- #182
I mean, like before the nightmare explain in times of peace, demons need to possess either humans or objects to manifest in the Human World. Which means, that just like the dolls in DMC1, they are not in their true bodies and that also means to kill than, they need to attack their soul directly. Which is the definition of soul hax, since they are attacking a soul in a physical body,
V was able to manipulate Nightmare's core in Visions of V, so Dante and Vergil having soul hax in lower key is also not a problem.
Nice, i did forgot that Alice was capable to show some high-mid regen feats when she was possessed in the manga
it was in the game actually, they say that since the barrier is going down they can manifest in the human world in they true forms.
Sounds good to me than, so we just we just nuke ''3A possibly Low 2-C'' and make than full Low 2C after the CTR is concluded.
Indeed I noticed now that i confused Dante escaping the Mundus's dimension, was being the same for Dante entering in the Demon World, thanks for remembering me about this Dante. I already fixed that
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Well then it depends on the anime to work, since the games don't cover times of peace (always had a portal to the DW) which means the demons should be in their true body, also the novels, so I guess Beryl should also have with her Rifle. Now, it's possible that they are releasing the demons by killing the host and when released, they can't stay here in the Human World, but if we talk about possibilities, then I guess Soul Hax makes more sense since it's a common ability between demons with feats in almost every canon material
I just hope we are not scalling Lady to this, since it was literally stated that she doesn't use magic on her stuff
About V, that actually only scales to Vergil since V is him, but Dante doesn't scale, like we already agreed, we are scalling between them only innates and resistances, Soul Hax isn't innate (tied to physiology) but an ability that V/Vergil knew how to use it
But I guess Dante gets this by killing demons in times of peace (Novel 1) so meh
Then I guess it's fine
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sorry but can you take me out of the agree part, i have been away for a while and i don't remember what was this all about and seeing dante bring up points made me realize i should read the whole thing again
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- #185
Nope, only demons and hybrids, unless they retcon that lady use magic on his weapons she is out of soul hax blog that i made.
Yeah, i was going to say that is an innate ability of than because they are capable to kill demons even when they are kids, according to before the nightmare and visions of v, but they are trained by Sparda so meh.
Np Tony.
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Is there anything else that's added to the blog that isn't just toon force, social infuence and energy absorption? If there's none then I guess the 3 other abilities are fine. And I still think the other additions are ok.
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We only saw them being trained in Sword Style, It's possible that he showed other stuff but that would be speculation
Soul Hax isn't related to their physiology, but how they use their power, we can't scale unless they have feats showing the ability, having the same source is one thing, what you know to do with said power source, another, that's why Nero doesn't have Soul Hax in 4, DMC4 Demons are artificial and the other came from a portal to DW (aka real body), after that and some years he became a Devil Hunter so I guess it works then (for his DMC5 key)
Soul Hax isn't related to their physiology, but how they use their power, we can't scale unless they have feats showing the ability, having the same source is one thing, what you know to do with said power source, another, that's why Nero doesn't have Soul Hax in 4, DMC4 Demons are artificial and the other came from a portal to DW (aka real body), after that and some years he became a Devil Hunter so I guess it works then (for his DMC5 key)
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- #188
Nope, just this three.
Fair enough for me on leaving on his DMC5 key.
Fair enough for me on leaving on his DMC5 key.
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Royalbump
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I apologize for the intrusion, but I'd like to argue for the removal of Deconstruction from Ebony & Ivory.
Dante previously tried out Ebony and Ivory to kill demons, and he is a regular customer of Goldstein, but he thought the guns would be useless against the armor. The bullet's unexpected power has been attributed to memories of Goldstein's and Grue's faces, so it seems that the bullets were amped from beyond the grave.
But it is not stated that Gilver's disintegration was done by the bullets; this is mere speculation that is not supported by other instances in the series.
There are various ways demons die upon suffering a vital blow (some leave a corpse in tact, some explode, some transform into ice and shatter), and one method of death we've seen multiple times from demons, including from Proto Angelos whose Gilver is wearing the armor of, is disintegration.
https://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol1_chapter_5/7.jpghttps://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol1_chapter_5/8.jpghttps://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol2_chapter_9/4.jpg
The Before the Nightmare DMC5 novel mentioned that after the lower demons Mundus sent as assassins against Virgil and Dante (disguised under the name Tony Redgrave) were turned to powder, Mundus created Black Knights to hunt the twins after studying how Dante, Vergil, and Sparda fight. Young Dante would fight a Proto Angelo with a black armor who might be copying Vergil's fighting abilities, but there is nothing post DMC3 supporting him fighting someone with Vergil's face or thinking that he killed Vergil.
Nonetheless, based on DMC5 we know that Proto Angelos evaporate upon death, like various other demons. Which goes against the claim that bullets themselves caused the deconstruction of a Proto Angelo, and therefore can deconstruct material objects upon contact.
1- The text doesn't attribute deconstruction to bullets
Here is the summary of the chain of events, with pictures of the scans hereDante previously tried out Ebony and Ivory to kill demons, and he is a regular customer of Goldstein, but he thought the guns would be useless against the armor. The bullet's unexpected power has been attributed to memories of Goldstein's and Grue's faces, so it seems that the bullets were amped from beyond the grave.
But it is not stated that Gilver's disintegration was done by the bullets; this is mere speculation that is not supported by other instances in the series.
There are various ways demons die upon suffering a vital blow (some leave a corpse in tact, some explode, some transform into ice and shatter), and one method of death we've seen multiple times from demons, including from Proto Angelos whose Gilver is wearing the armor of, is disintegration.
2- Gilver is probably not canon, and if he was canon then he would be a Proto Angelo who we know disintegrates upon death
While DMC5 made references to characters and events to the first novel and thus firmly canonizing them, Gilver is still the most non-canon part of the novel as it contradicts Dante's backstory in DMC3 and DMC3's manga; Dante also uses Force Edge in the novel which he never got until the end of DMC3. In the manga Dante thinks Vergil is dead because he never saw him since his mother's death.https://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol1_chapter_5/7.jpghttps://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol1_chapter_5/8.jpghttps://s41.mkklcdnv6tempv3.com/************/d1/devil_may_cry/vol2_chapter_9/4.jpg
The Before the Nightmare DMC5 novel mentioned that after the lower demons Mundus sent as assassins against Virgil and Dante (disguised under the name Tony Redgrave) were turned to powder, Mundus created Black Knights to hunt the twins after studying how Dante, Vergil, and Sparda fight. Young Dante would fight a Proto Angelo with a black armor who might be copying Vergil's fighting abilities, but there is nothing post DMC3 supporting him fighting someone with Vergil's face or thinking that he killed Vergil.
Nonetheless, based on DMC5 we know that Proto Angelos evaporate upon death, like various other demons. Which goes against the claim that bullets themselves caused the deconstruction of a Proto Angelo, and therefore can deconstruct material objects upon contact.
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While I do see logic on your post, but you can't just say Gilver is not canon when we have actual, factual material making him suitable for what the series is today, the novel is canon on what doesn't go against the series, and BTN just fixed Gilver being Vergil thing to a Angelo, which basically was the only real problem besides Dante's sword being Force Edge in the cover (despite not even called that in the novel).
We from DMC were discussing this on discord, and yeah I also have my problems with Deconstruction now based on the first half of your post, but I disagree with the non canon argument. Worth saying that it was stated (In a offcial guide I believe) that Dante's bullets contain spirits, guess we now know why they told us that
The manga would already cover this by making Dante and Vergil meet again a year before the events of DMC3, also many demons that Dante fought weren't referenced in the story after (Even great ones (soon to be upgraded to Demon King level) like Abigail), doesn't mean they were yeeted from canon
We from DMC were discussing this on discord, and yeah I also have my problems with Deconstruction now based on the first half of your post, but I disagree with the non canon argument. Worth saying that it was stated (In a offcial guide I believe) that Dante's bullets contain spirits, guess we now know why they told us that
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Dante thought the guns would be useless because the armor was repelling his physical attacks, none of Neil guns till that point were stronger than him nor where they different than normal guns but we know that those are far from normal guns, they were specially designed and made for Dante, its literally a pair of weapons that are completly different from anything she has made before and if I remember things correctly, there wasn't any demon that could tank the bullets from E&I in the novel. In short, Dante understimated the guns.
The faces are literally Gilver regret over discarding the guns as something human made and thus useless against him. In no moment where they amped.
The fact that he was shot and then his body started to fade away after a bunch of effects seems like a very implicit effect of the bullets, not the other way around. The proto angelos in 5 desintegrate in a manner similar yes, but that is after they are killed/destroyed while Gilver is still alive (and the manga shows the bodies stay there instead of evaporating). The other demons death was tackled in the past crt.
I don't remember if it was Itsuno or Matt but there is a interview where they basically said everything is canon, now for the stuff that doesn't make sense?
Simply got retconed, instead of FE (it was never told to be FE btw) its rebellion, instead of being who knows how old he is a teen who has been on the run for a while and decided to settle down in that town.
Regardless, the director, the last game and the last novel integrate the first novel in the canon.
There was another one saying the bullets wipe demons out of existence (someone posted it in a discussion thread a long time ago) but some thought of it as bs and the thread was never made (I told you guys in the past already)
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It was Matt
Interview: Devil May Cry 5’s Producer On The Game’s Development And Possible Future Projects | Feed4gamers
We turned to Capcom to find some of the answers and one of the producers of DMC5, Matt Walker, took the time to tell us more about the development of the game and possible future of the series.
feed4gamers.com
Also yeah Tony seems to make sense
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I would like to say that saying Gilver is JUST a Proto Angelo is kinda wrong, he is obviously more than that....Before retcon he was legit Vergil and thus virtually 100% equal to Dante in skills and biology, after the retcon it can be questioned how much different he is but even then he is Vergil clone first and foremost so even then he is very similar to Dante even in biology.....the armour is just armour even though it is Nelo Angelo armour....so saying that he should disintegrate just like Proto Angelo is a downplay......
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Bruh Saturday is ending in few hrs and still no mod has arrived for evaluation....☹☹
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A already contacted Elizhaa. He said he might be able to comment during the weekend here.
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