- 10,688
- 4,812
I mean Bartz SHOULD be 2-A but this wiki is stupid and says beating the final boss is PIS
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Final Fantasy discussion thread II: Fighting the Empire
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
- 30,447
- 32,312
The reason Bartz doesn't scale was because the party never defeated Neo-Exdeath but the Void did. And that they struggled against Exdeath's base form.
- 5,463
- 794
Man I can't wait until someone finds a statement in one of the official guidebooks that state the void is beyond space and time of all dimensions so we have to upgrade Neo-Exdeath and that other guy to High 2-A
- 381
- 20
Nop, FFXIII the Invisible World exists beyond all concepts of space and time, and this is 1-A according to wikia. http://imgur.com/a/c6Ftmbp
And it was not rejected because the thread was not closed, actually most members agreed, but the staff here often uses "appeal to authority" and they consider someone's word as the absolute truth
And it was not rejected because the thread was not closed, actually most members agreed, but the staff here often uses "appeal to authority" and they consider someone's word as the absolute truth
- 30,447
- 32,312
We don't go by Appeal to Authority, we go by quality of quantity. And still, it's too vague and there's no proof of Final Fantasy's structure being higher than 2-A. And none of our knowledgeable members here agreed with 1-A Type 0.
- 381
- 20
it is not necessary to have high dimensions for verse 1-A so that the place is described as superior to the concepts of space and time, and this is on the page Outeverse itself.
"there's no proof of Final Fantasy's structure being higher than 2-A." http://imgur.com/a/wwpdTMa
And yes, in literally ALL discussions I have already seen use appeal to authority, no matter how much a member argues well with concrete evidence he will be rejected if any "knowledge member" says "no" (even if that member does not given motive), it's almost like you say "he's a member of knowledge then automatically knows more than you." Most recent example was in my FFIX thread
"there's no proof of Final Fantasy's structure being higher than 2-A." http://imgur.com/a/wwpdTMa
And yes, in literally ALL discussions I have already seen use appeal to authority, no matter how much a member argues well with concrete evidence he will be rejected if any "knowledge member" says "no" (even if that member does not given motive), it's almost like you say "he's a member of knowledge then automatically knows more than you." Most recent example was in my FFIX thread
- 30,447
- 32,312
There have also been times where input from a normal user has been accepted by the staff. Anyway, it's less about who says it, and more about the information provided. Also that scan isn't showing enough structure and is just using a flowery "Multidimensional statement" which has nothing to do with upper dimensional hierarchies shown in Brane Multiverse. It's not like Shin Megami Tensei which actually has proof of that.
- 10,688
- 4,812
>Struggling against a base form 2/3rds of the way into the game without sealed weapons and the void defeating him even though they severely damaged and tanked hits from himDarkDragonMedeus said:
yeah totally legit reason not to scale
- 30,447
- 32,312
Actually, even with the Sealed Weapons, they struggled against the Tree Form that wasn't yet merged with the Void but simply had limited manipulation over the Void. The first form of the end game boss was who the scale from, not the absolute final form.
- 381
- 20
Nop, notice that the object besides being described as multidimensional also mentions to be Fractal, and a quick researched you will see that Fractal is a component of Euclidean space and behaves like High dimension in the dimension of Hausdorff (the same that the Wiki uses in its system)
"In mathematics, a fractal is a subset of a Euclidean space for which the Hausdorff dimension strictly exceeds the topological dimension. "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
"A fractal has an integer topological dimension, but in terms of the amount of space it takes up, it behaves like a higher-dimensional space."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension
"In mathematics, a fractal is a subset of a Euclidean space for which the Hausdorff dimension strictly exceeds the topological dimension. "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
"A fractal has an integer topological dimension, but in terms of the amount of space it takes up, it behaves like a higher-dimensional space."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension
- 30,447
- 32,312
Well, Ultima Reality is planning to reword "Dimensional Tiering". Saying Multidimensional is not relevant enough and there will need to be proof that each and every dimension is a higher infinity before anyone can reach High 2-A or above. And we also probably won't exactly be calling it "Dimensional Tiering" anymore.
- 3,356
- 2,036
PIS? Being honest, the inconsistencies and retcons in the VII universe are pretty noticeable. Same way Tifa couldn't kick down the door of the gas chamber, or In the On the Way to a Smile novel, Yuffie could barely carry a boy her age and this novel was written after Advent Children came out. Add the myriad of retcons to Shinra, the Jenova project and the Planet mechanics on top (which is what personally annoys me the most)ZERO7772 said:
- 3,356
- 2,036
Sooo, according to Maximillian Dood, who played the E3 Demon and attended the private showing, the Remake, at least in Midgar, won't be introducing new characters, so it's likely expansions will be for Shinra Staff, Turks and Avalanche members. Jessie went from crushing on Cloud to openly flirting with him, but in such a on-the-nose degree it's hilarious (with lines like "Hope he's as nice to work with as he's to look at") but knows to remain professional and lay it off. The animosity between Cloud and Barret is much more evident, and Barret openly mentions the only reason he hired Cloud is because Tifa requested it. Barret is more openly passionate about his ideals of protecting the Planet and Cloud has total asshat personality of the beginning at full force.
Old info, but though it would be worth mentioning.
Old info, but though it would be worth mentioning.
- 8,752
- 1,616
That nice feeling when you feel you can trust a remake ane be hyped about it.
- 3,356
- 2,036
Maximillian Dood also commented that the guys at SE mentioned they are aware they can't screw up this one, they are really giving their all to make it work and avoid production issues and pitfalls that hurt previous projects.
I'm crossing my fingers as well.
I'm crossing my fingers as well.
- 8,752
- 1,616
Yeh yeh
Be prepared for Cloud to still be able to destroy a massive robot but he falters knocking down a door.
- 8,752
- 1,616
I started fighting Sephiroth in 2020. It's 2045 and the Supernova animation hasn't finished*
Fixed it.
Fixed it.
- 3,356
- 2,036
Wait until you reach Eyn Sof Sephiroth and he uses *Insert pretentious latin* attack
- 8,752
- 1,616
What are the chances that Sephiroth gets an even more angelic final form after Feathery Boi Sephiroth?
- 8,752
- 1,616
- 5,463
- 794
Also Gilgamesh as a superboss for obvious reasons
- 3,356
- 2,036
@Lancelot: Zack could be a friendly boss, kinda testing how strong Cloud has gotten.
Jenova certainly could use of being less of a pushover this time around >_>
EDIT: Yeah, Gil would be dope. It's unlikely, but Omega and Shinryu would be cool as well.
Jenova certainly could use of being less of a pushover this time around >_>
EDIT: Yeah, Gil would be dope. It's unlikely, but Omega and Shinryu would be cool as well.
- 30,447
- 32,312
I might make the Benjamin from Mystic Quest profile soon.
- 3,356
- 2,036
Out of curiosity, how strong is he? I dunno why but I expect him to be surprisingly strong.
So, on side news... made sample profiles for Cid, Cait Sith and Aerith, a revision for Jenova and updated Vincent (still have to go through DoC to fully polish it though, but is up to date with the rest of the games).
So, on side news... made sample profiles for Cid, Cait Sith and Aerith, a revision for Jenova and updated Vincent (still have to go through DoC to fully polish it though, but is up to date with the rest of the games).
- 30,447
- 32,312
Right here. He's the new weakest Final Fantasy protagonist now, but still decently strong.
And those WIP profiles look pretty good so far.
And those WIP profiles look pretty good so far.
- 30,447
- 32,312
Yeah, it was Noctis or the FFXV cast in general next.
- 30,447
- 32,312
Yeah, that's been brought up and talked about numerous times here. Both this thread and the previous one.
- 3,356
- 2,036
Ugh, what happened now? The deal with her sports bra or more nonsense? Because on that end, it's the other side the one that has been obnoxiously vocal and made impossible to talk anything about the game because everything devolves into Tifa's boobs this or that.
Apologies, again, por the long post:
If it is the whole "Tifa's breast were shrunk because censorship", that was a misTranslation that blew out of proportion. Nomura mentioned her shape is the same as the original artwork, but wanted to give her a more sporty design and took reference from army equipment and real athletes for her. While there is an "ethics department" involved, despite its name its only role is to avoid issues with rating boards which CAN get incredibly pissy beyond devs control, but all it happened is the sports bra presses Tifa's chest to avoid bouncing, which goes in line with her athlete design (and trust me sports bra's flatten breasts a lot, girls look flat chested with them, the fact Tifa has such a large bust with it just shows how well endowed she is).
Argument I hear a lot is "it's a fantasy game, realism has no place" or "you can't be selectively realistic". But the thing is, you can and you need to to. Just because a story is in a fantastic world doesn't mean it can completely divorce itself from certain rules and grounding, which depends on its own story and artistic decisions. The game follows a realistic character design (and that is a stylistic choice), so adding a human character with ears and nose the size of his upper body and a third arm in his forehead, for no reason would be fine because it's fantasy? No, it would look at odds with the designs. Characters just warping between places without needing vehicles for, without explanation or breaking through matter, would make sense because it's fantasy? It would clash with the cyberpunk setting the established Mako technology and open plot holes.
I understand the issues with censorship and the disdain for it, especially how nonsensical it has become at nowadays. But it has led to constant paranoia and outrage over every decision devs make nowadays, with the same explosive attitude decried about SJWs. And honestly, there are many other things that could backfire in the remake right now. I'd be more concerned about censorship if they changed stuff like... "We changed Cloud and Tifa's promise because it didn't make Tifa a good female role model", " We removed Aerith's death becase it may come as promoting abuse towards women", "We changed Barret's character because he's an offensive stereotype", "We changed Cloud's backstory because it may be insensitive to mentally unwell people", "We remove the superboss battles against the Weapons because it is misrepresentation of ancient biomechanical giants living beneath the planet's crust, and gives the impression they're all barbaric and violent savages"
Apologies, again, por the long post:
If it is the whole "Tifa's breast were shrunk because censorship", that was a misTranslation that blew out of proportion. Nomura mentioned her shape is the same as the original artwork, but wanted to give her a more sporty design and took reference from army equipment and real athletes for her. While there is an "ethics department" involved, despite its name its only role is to avoid issues with rating boards which CAN get incredibly pissy beyond devs control, but all it happened is the sports bra presses Tifa's chest to avoid bouncing, which goes in line with her athlete design (and trust me sports bra's flatten breasts a lot, girls look flat chested with them, the fact Tifa has such a large bust with it just shows how well endowed she is).
Argument I hear a lot is "it's a fantasy game, realism has no place" or "you can't be selectively realistic". But the thing is, you can and you need to to. Just because a story is in a fantastic world doesn't mean it can completely divorce itself from certain rules and grounding, which depends on its own story and artistic decisions. The game follows a realistic character design (and that is a stylistic choice), so adding a human character with ears and nose the size of his upper body and a third arm in his forehead, for no reason would be fine because it's fantasy? No, it would look at odds with the designs. Characters just warping between places without needing vehicles for, without explanation or breaking through matter, would make sense because it's fantasy? It would clash with the cyberpunk setting the established Mako technology and open plot holes.
I understand the issues with censorship and the disdain for it, especially how nonsensical it has become at nowadays. But it has led to constant paranoia and outrage over every decision devs make nowadays, with the same explosive attitude decried about SJWs. And honestly, there are many other things that could backfire in the remake right now. I'd be more concerned about censorship if they changed stuff like... "We changed Cloud and Tifa's promise because it didn't make Tifa a good female role model", " We removed Aerith's death becase it may come as promoting abuse towards women", "We changed Barret's character because he's an offensive stereotype", "We changed Cloud's backstory because it may be insensitive to mentally unwell people", "We remove the superboss battles against the Weapons because it is misrepresentation of ancient biomechanical giants living beneath the planet's crust, and gives the impression they're all barbaric and violent savages"
- 1,119
- 58
Other nonsense and when I say Nonsense I mean NONSENSE. SJW's hate Tifa so much that they literally got Youtube to censor the WORD Tifa. On youtube when you type in her name it will no longer bring up an auto suggestions or corrections for videos related to her, of course this does not count for the rest of the cast. Also, yep everything you just said could very well happen at this point. Nothing and no concept is safe from being attacked and every year it's getting progressively worse not just in games but in entertainment in general.
- 3,356
- 2,036
Why is it so hard to appreciate Tiffs for her actual character...?
- 1,119
- 58
Because female breasts are the devil and must be scrubbed from our screens with Bleach apparently and Boobs are her character according to SJW's. This movement needs to die an infinte amount of deaths. A different remake released earlier this year Resident Evil 2. This woke, PC, trash is the G-Virus from Resident Evil. Slowly making it's way and infecting the entertainment industry as we know it until eventually we end up going the way of Racoon city instead of Zombies we have Social Justice Warriors.
- 30,447
- 32,312
@Bware, please don't use long quotes in the future. And anyway, I agree that the controversy surrounding Tifa is really obnoxious. And I really like her new design.
- 3,356
- 2,036
I'm talking about the anti side as well. Because there's also a lot of people commenting on how Tifa is ruined because her breasts are smaller, or swarming discussions or news of the Remake and drowning anything else on the matter. Essentially it became a sadistic choice for Tifa, have your fanservicey design have a crowd chanting you're offensive, be more modest you have the other side decrying you were butchered. And both sides reduce Tifa to her design.
I am not gonna pretend a group of the PC crowd is not being unreasonable (nor that censorship of games in aspects that are relevant has been getting out of hand), but the other side also insists in being poisoned for it and keep being angry having the same exact mentality and behaviour but with a different flag.
There are other things on the line that could send the Remake down the drain, Tifa's design is a pretty minor one and Nomura confirmed the story, aside expansion, is the same as the original.
I am not gonna pretend a group of the PC crowd is not being unreasonable (nor that censorship of games in aspects that are relevant has been getting out of hand), but the other side also insists in being poisoned for it and keep being angry having the same exact mentality and behaviour but with a different flag.
There are other things on the line that could send the Remake down the drain, Tifa's design is a pretty minor one and Nomura confirmed the story, aside expansion, is the same as the original.
Similar threads
