Final Fantasy discussion thread II: Fighting the Empire

[ZephyrosOmega]

Tiers of FF characters on this wiki


1. Where Bartz should ACTUALLY Be (2-A)

2. Onion Knight (2-C)

3. Lightining and where Squall should ACTUALLY Be (Low 2-C)

4. Bartz, Squall (3-C)

5. Cloud (4-B)

6. Zidane (High 5-A)

7. Cecil, Terra, Warrior, Ramza from good Ivalice, Vaan from shitty Ivalice (5-A)

8. Tidus (Low 5-B)

9. Firion (5-C)

10. Noctis (High 6-A)

11. Where Noctis SHOULD be (6-B)

12. Benjamin (7-A

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There's also plenty other spinoff characters who don't have profiles yet. Yuri from Ring of Fates is also Low 2-C scaling from Galdes. And also, the Warriors of Light from FF1 will be Tier 2 eventually.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Sooo, from what I get the FFVIII Remastered got its ESRB rating, a T rating like the original, meaning the release date is not far off, perhaps September or so this year. The rumor of it having voice acting is still around, but no confirmation. Also a physical release is rumored.

Interview with Kitase mentions that in X Zanarkand was going to be explorable like Midgar in VII, but had to be cut, unfortunately. He would also like to try making X-3, but it would be a huge project, so he prefers to focus on matters at hand first.

Say, a lot of people mention a drama CD and how they'd prefer if the story it was avoided if a sequel to X-3 ever gets made. Though Kitase never mentioned it or anything.

And on a more serious note, Jotaro mains Tifa.

 

[Bware1]

Secretly campaigns for Dream Voice recasts for FFVIII Remastered since FFVII has changed the iconic voices for said remake.

Well FFX-3 was teased a while back with grown up redesigns of Yuna and poor haxless Tidus (Which will be fixed in the future.)

And LMAO of course he does.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Aww, I like Doug's Squall... Matt's awesome, that's undeniable though.

I recall the Drama CD came a bit ago, with Tidus wearing Jecht's bandana (which is a rather sweet touch, given all that happened), IIRC it was declared non-canon so didn't really look into it. Tidus got depowered or something?

 

[ZERO7772]

Tidus was never anything special IIRC.

 

[Bware1]

Lol Not that I don't like Doug Erholtz but I just think Matt Mercer as Squall would be awesome! Other voice casts choices would be

Patrick Seitz as Seifer Almasy

Erika Harlacher as Quistis Trepe

Skylar Davenport as Selphie Tilmitt instead of Rinoa

Danielle Judovits as Rinoa Heartilly

Travis Willingham as Irvine Kinneas

Max Mittleman as Zell Dincht

Christina Vee as Fujin

Undecided on Rajin

Tony Oliver as Laguna Loire

Mary Elizabeth Mcglynn or Rachel Mcfarlane as Julia Heartilly

Yuri Lowenthal as Kiros

John Michael Tatum as Ward

Vic Mignogna as Principal Cid

Laura Post as Edea Kramer

Tasia Valenza still as Ultimecia


Also nah Tidus wasn't depowered he just...had no power to begin with. If you look at the profiles for all the protaganists on this site. Tidus is the least haxed out of everyone.

 

[TartaChocholate]

That's some pretty neat casting. I also got the feeling Skylar might fit Selphie better, I dunno... but while I think she suits Rionoa's upbeat personality, she doesn't quite nail her more somber moments, like Kana Hanazawa does.

Patrick as Seifer would be pretty dope DIO intensifies especially how he can rotate between deep and cool and ferocity.

To be fair, Tidus' profile might simply be pretty outdated. The skillsets of many FF characters got expanded enormously after a revision and further research. Especially when you begin to pay attention to obstuse details in lore.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Patrick Seitz is like the perfect "Tough Guy" voice actor; Ragna the Bloodedge, Hector in Fire Emblem Warriors, Olberic from Octopath Traveler are all examples of this.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Amen to that. Not only deep and menacing, if he wants to sound scary and fierce holy crap he can pull it off with gusto.

 

[Bware1]

Amen to that. Not only deep and menacing, if he wants to sound scary and fierce holy crap he can pull it off with gusto.

Congrats on your CRT passing. Though just a thought you might wanna replace Aerith's picture since FFVII Remake will be it's own tab seperate from the main series.

 

[TartaChocholate]

D´oh! I thought I could get away with it. It felt wrong for Aerith to be the only one of the protags to not have a 3D render. XD Gonna go with Nomura's official art

Thanks, dude, btw. It was a lot of work, but to be fair I had a ton of fun working on it.

 

[Bware1]

XD I can feel you on that one. Aerith does look beautiful in that picture.

 

[ZERO7772]

Speaking of remake, I REALLY hope they include a Zack boss fight in the remake. Zack wasn't a major character in the original VII but I feel like at this point a duel between Cloud and Zack is A must.

Doesn't have to be the real Zack, a copy of him, or even an image of him in Cloud's would be enough. Something like the final duel between Cloud and Sephy.

 

[TartaChocholate]

@Bware: Yup, she designs. Overall the new models look incredible. I mean, even Heidegger, of all people, looks like a cool military leader now.

@ZERO: Zack having a larger role is almost a given due to how much his character has become a breakout since then. Another possibility is that Zack couldn't be assimilated by the Lifestream due to lingering regrets, like what happened to the Gi Tribe or the people who died of Geostigma, and became a revenant of sorts that Cloud has to fight.

Or it could be on better terms and Zack fights Cloud to see how much the latter has grown.

Honestly, I know it's kinda hard to do due to spoiling the twist of the game, but I really want more Cloud and Zack friendship scenes. Those were incredibly sweet and heartwarming.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Alright! Profiles for FFVII done, the existing ones are updated and the characters lacking one got theirs. Did change Aerith's image for her original artwork, but Ant changed it back to the Remake model... so I just left it like that. All that's left is finish DoC and polish Vincent's.

 

[ZERO7772]

Nice work my man~

 

[TartaChocholate]

Thanks, Zero! I actually had a lot of fun working on it.

 

[Bware1]

Just out of curiosity how come Cloud only has 1 Tab showing off his traditional soilder garb but Sephiroth has both his regular and Advent Children designs?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well... my train of though was that mostly because Sephiroth has precise moments in which his powers noticeably changed through the story, so he can be assigned different tabs each represented with its respective design, and also Advent Children was the first time he actually had his black wing.

But to be honest, nothing really prevents using more designs for Cloud and Tifa, given they have good renders from Dissidia and all (especially the very smexy one from the last topic). I think I'll add them later, not a bad idea.

 

[Bware1]

Understandable. Funny you mentioned that. I actually just edited the pics for almost everyone last night removing the backgrounds for the CGI rendered protags. Cloud's was one of the easiest to do.

I'll leave it here in case you wanna use it, and when the villian portraits come. I'll definetly do those as well.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Looks awesome man.

 

[Bware1]

Thanks. Alot of work went into it

 

[ZERO7772]

AC Cloud > Game Cloud

Fusion Sword > Buster Sword

Fight me!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

LOL

 

[TartaChocholate]

@Zero: I... completely agree for many reasons, actually.

 

[PaChi2]

I like the Buster Sword more because it has some meaning besides "its a big sword".

 

[Ogbunabali]

An AC tab for Cloud is a good idea actually.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Hmm... perhaps the whole deal with AC needs a second look. To be honest, when I worked on the profiles I barely touched the tiering, everything was already done and determined from before, so I better ask around a bit.

@PaChi: My issue with the Buster Sword, even after CC, is that the noble promise between Zack and Cloud it represents was corrupted by the mental breakdown Cloud suffered, and then it became kind of a mark of Cloud chained to his illusionary identity and lies, stealing Zack's life. The Fusion Sword kind marked the moment he branched off into his own path and follow his own style, without forgetting his roots, instead of being just Zack's shadow.

 

[ZERO7772]

>Cloud suffered, and then it became kind of a mark of Cloud chained to his illusionary identity and lies

Well said.

Buster Sword kinda symbolizes Cloud living in Zack's shadow and how he clings to his past and fake identity. Him abandoing the Buster Sword is a symbol of Cloud moving on and finally starting his own path. Also, Fusion Sword is basically a 6 sword fused into one, come on this is much cooler than just one BIG sword.

 

[ZERO7772]

Cloud even stubmle on the same girl Zack fell for many years ago, what sort of curse is this ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[TartaChocholate]

I think "abandoning" the Buster Sword is kinda a harsh way of putting it, I like the balance AC Complete put in the end, his main weapon is the Fusion Sword, but still keeps the Buster Sword as a personal treasure, well mantained in a very special place, symbolizing its importance but how he acknowledges his own path.

All in all, the Zack's intentions were sincere and very noble, but got screwed over by the amount of stuff going at the moment. And well, the Fusion Sword came before CC gave the Buster Sword such a greater significance.

 

[ZERO7772]

Zack's intentions were good no question, Cloud is just messed up in the head and really undermined mind their promise when he forgot the heck even Zack was. It made me feel bad for his parents when Cloud visited them as well.

Zack is a great character so they will exploare him more in the remake if not even bring him back.

 

[TartaChocholate]

It was a lose-lose, really, that's what made so crappy the situation. Scenario A: the Jenova Cells imprinted Zack's memory on Cloud and make the fake persona, corrupting Cloud's interpretationg of Zack's last will. Scenario B: the Jenova Cells do nothing, Cloud doesn't recover of Mako Poisoning and remains like a zombie forever.

It's likely Zack's role will be played up, especially given how much he has grown for the fans since the original game and Crisis Core, and now the importance of their friendship has become key for Cloud's character.

@Bware: Sooo, I did make an AC key for Cloud, and used dat image.

 

[PaChi2]

"@PaChi: My issue with the Buster Sword, even after CC, is that the noble promise between Zack and Cloud it represents was corrupted by the mental breakdown Cloud suffered, and then it became kind of a mark of Cloud chained to his illusionary identity and lies, stealing Zack's life. The Fusion Sword kind marked the moment he branched off into his own path and follow his own style, without forgetting his roots, instead of being just Zack's shadow."

The Buster Sword represents the bond between the different generations of master/student/comrade, their dreams, etc. Such as Angeal and Zack. Cloud having a mental breakdown and issues has nothing to do with the sword. Cloud forgot the promise he made to Zack, forgetting the meaning of the sword he was wielding. It has more depth than the Fusion sword. In fact, the fusion sword would only be "another big sword" without the Buster Sword. Quite literally all the meaning you gave to the FS stems from the BS.

Because the BS represents "the past", the FS represents "the future". Thing is, the BS alone has a story of its own.

 

[TartaChocholate]

That beautiful legacy was essentially murked when it came to Cloud being the next link in that line, precisely because of the identity theft and not only forgetting Zack altogether, his honor and dreams, but taking his place. An important part of Cloud's story is that he's a failure, a wannabe that tried to emulate the guys he admired: Sephiroth and Zack, but how shallow this pretention was, as little of Zack's virtues were emulated, just a bravado. In the end, his true strength came when he acknowledged he sucked and moved forward, that made him become truly strong and brave. For Cloud to fully embrace his own path and identity he needed to follow his own style, but not forget his roots or the person who allowed him to be there to begin with, but he had already tainted the Buster Sword's significance, it was Zack's gift, but also the symbol of his own dellusion. I think that's why AC Complete makes a good balance, the Buster Sword is still kept as a dear treasure, instead of being abandoned to rust (tbf, vanilla AC came before CC and the true importance of the Buster Sword was established), yet the new sword emulates the Buster Sword, but has key differences and perks of its own.

And this is not my theory, saw it around some time ago when reading a FFVII Plot Analysis, but the same way Cloud could move on thanks to people supporting him, the Fusion Sword is a big and powerful weapon made from smaller blades. As Cloud leaves his isolation behind he begins to use the different blades of the Fusion Sword more and more, with his Ultimate Move being one that uses all the blades at once.

I am not arguing the Fusion Sword is a better weapon than the Buster Sword, though. Simply stating why I prefer it and think it was a healthy evolution for Cloud.

 

[PaChi2]

"I am not arguing the Fusion Sword is a better weapon than the Buster Sword, though. Simply stating why I prefer it and think it was a healthy evolution for Cloud."

Well, I respect your opinion. I just prefer the Buster Sword's legacy and stuff.

 

[TartaChocholate]

"I just prefer the Buster Sword's legacy and stuff."

I know, and that's perfectly legitimate. It is a beautiful tradition between truly heroic, and certainly tragic, people. But I just wanted to clear up that I wasn't trying to convince you or anything, was just sharing my thoughts. I may like the Fusion Sword better, but I don't think it's objectively better.

I appreciate your respect, as well. Same here.

 

[PaChi2]

Let's talk about how we expect Aerith to be killed.

 

[ZERO7772]

Let's talk about how we expect Aerith to be killed.

We don't talk about this.