Final Fantasy discussion thread II: Fighting the Empire

[ZERO7772]

Aerith is not the sole reason, but she is portrayed as the symbol of Cloud's grief and sorrow in most of her appearances. 2 years later and he's still not over her.

Shit, they even played this in World of Final Fantasy IIRC. He literally abandoned Lightning on one mission to chase after Sephy because he "killed the women he loved" and this is the only reason given to us

This ended up being a rant, but I really don't like SE portrays Cloud as an edge lord who can't get over his issues

 

[TartaChocholate]

Yeah, I kind of agree. That's why I mean with mishandled. If you read On the Way to a Smile, Cloud actually begins as the upbeat and more confident, yet awkward guy he was at the end of FFVII, but at one point that suddenly changes and he starts distancing from everybody, something Tifa notices and finds very jarring. You can tell that's the moment the guy realized he had Geostigma or succumbed to its effects. If AC had explained itself better and shown Cloud's spiraling depression it could have been much easier to understand, instead of play it like "he's suffering that's so cool".

And what happened in WOFF as you say, is the other issue, melancholy became his default facet, when that was more of Vincent's schtick. Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia also had him like that, forgetting the dynamic aspect of his character or that his most recognizable trait was his messed up identity and overcoming his weakness. Had this melancholic phase been just in AC, it wouldn't have been so bad, though, but that movie was very style over substance, nowadays it's not hard to follow given everything has been explained, but in the movie itself a lot is left in the air.

Sadly, Aerith also suffered a variation, his street smarts, hotheadedness, stubborness, flirty and playful side got forgotten and she was protrayed as some sort of Martyr, whose defining aspect is her tragic death.

At the very least this has died down in the last years since Smash 4, as Cloud's demeanor and personality in recent entries emphasize his cocky attitude more than anything, Dissidia NT and Mobius do so at least. So perhaps they finally realized, it was getting tiresome and they should cut the guy some slack as well and stop making him miserable to keep his angst active.

 

[ZERO7772]

Cloud suffering is fine, it's makes him much more sympathetic and easy to cheer for. Just don't make him an edge lord at every turn.

Aside from Cloud, I hope dub doesn't mess with Tifa and tries too hard to make her "strong female" cuz it's a famous trend these days.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do personally like female characters being kickass, but at least give them something to ensure they still have heart basically.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

but


tifa is a strong female

 

[TartaChocholate]

You can have a sensitive, warmhearted asskicker. Kenshiro can attest to that =P

I'm fine with Tifa's badessery being played up, and if trailers are to go by, her heart and motherly side are there so no problem.

@Zero: That's what I mean too. They make Cloud suffer precisely to keep the edgelord thing going on.

 

[ZERO7772]

but

tifa is a strong female

That not what I meant. She's a strong female charater but I am afraid of the them trying "too hard" to make her a badass, you know, sorta of how Captin Marvel was.

 

[ZERO7772]

It's funny because Tifa want be a princess and be rescued by her prince charming Cloud. Ironically enough, Cloud is never there when she gets in trouble, it's Tifa who saved his ass on a few occasions

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well, he did stop Sephy in Nibelheim, though after he gutted Tifa, so better late than never. Tifa even was happy that Cloud did came, though she didn't remeber later, probably the blood loss. And he did successfully save her and Denzel during Bahamut SIN's rampage, so that's something I guess. Slightly makes up for Tifa fixing the catastrophical mess that was Cloud's psyche XD

 

[ZERO7772]

You really gonna count the Nibelheim one for him Ó▓á_Ó▓á? He only made it there after Sephy drilled her, and he wasn't even the first one find her it was Zack. The one who ulitmatly saved her was her master, Cloud literally did nothing.

Tifa piked him up from the slums, played along with all his BS, and had to babysit him when he became poisoned agian and ultimatly fixed his messy mind Ó▓áÔò¡Ôò«Ó▓á.

 

[TartaChocholate]

I was half joking on that one >_>

 

[ZERO7772]

So you was half-serious then Ó▓áÔò¡Ôò«Ó▓á

Tifa is the prince and Cloud is the princess ╩ò•ß┤Ñ•╩ö

 

[TartaChocholate]

Half-joking, half-ironic! 8V

I am all in for prince Tifa. Cloud already proved he can be the best FF waifu.

 

[TartaChocholate]

So, in a small bit of wiki related news. Squall and co were succesfully upgraded to Low 2-C for their end-game versions. Woo! More FF heroes for the Universe! Now where's Shulk vs Squall ovo

And on a minor level, possibly, if the translation I got is correct, I found that Sephy's Japanese Supernova consumes the entire Solar System. Given his current calc uses a blast that reaches Jupiter, an explosion that goes all the way to Pluto (it still was a planet back then >=V) would mean quite a bump in the 4-B.

 

[Bware1]

So, in a small bit of wiki related news. Squall and co were succesfully upgraded to Low 2-C for their end-game versions. Woo! More FF heroes for the Universe! Now where's Shulk vs Squall ovoAnd on a minor level, possibly, if the translation I got is correct, I found that Sephy's Japanese Supernova consumes the entire Solar System. Given his current calc uses a blast that reaches Jupiter, an explosion that goes all the way to Pluto (it still was a planet back then >=V) would mean quite a bump in the 4-B.

With the hax upgrade you gave the FFVII cast as well as new translation regarding Supernova putting them pretty far into 4-B would this put them in contention for Top 5 characters in 4-B?

As for Shulk vs Squall...well Squall gets Precoged hard, Shulk's precognition is stupid broken, and pretty sure Shulk vs Light is the more popular match up....but....

 

[TartaChocholate]

Lol, to be fair I don't know a thing about Shulk aside the few basics. The idea just popped up because they are both low 2-Cs that deal with destiny and time shaeningans, at least on paper.

To be fair, I don't know very well how they would compare to the other crazy 4-Bs on the site, but while I do think they would be among the strongest 4-Bs in terms of raw power if the Supernova upgrade is considered valid, hax wise there are a lot 4-Bs that completely overtake them, such as the ones from Destiny. Not to mention, while the FFVII cast got a wider moveset, it's still pretty straightforward, they have no counters against Reality Warpers, Time Travellers, Existance Erasure or such.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

So, Gilgamesh should end up getting upgraded from Ulty... Right?

 

[TartaChocholate]

From Blackcurrant's document unfortunately he doesn't scale, as the low 2-C tier applies to Disc 4 and Seifer and Gilgamesh are from Disc 3 and before. Summons have their own scale as well, so Gil is bound by that here. Blackcurrant could give more details in the thread.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Chronodia might actually be 2-A and WoL could still scale from her, but we're still waiting for more elaborate confirmation.

What's this about Chronodia being 2-A

 

[Bware1]

Lol, to be fair I don't know a thing about Shulk aside the few basics. The idea just popped up because they are both low 2-Cs that deal with destiny and time shaeningans, at least on paper.
To be fair, I don't know very well how they would compare to the other crazy 4-Bs on the site, but while I do think they would be among the strongest 4-Bs in terms of raw power if the Supernova upgrade is considered valid, hax wise there are a lot 4-Bs that completely overtake them, such as the ones from Destiny. Not to mention, while the FFVII cast got a wider moveset, it's still pretty straightforward, they have no counters against Reality Warpers, Time Travellers, Existance Erasure or such.

That's a shame but still must be pretty good that our verse has legit claims to be some of the strongest in certain tiers AP wise.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Zephyr, there was a bunch of statements Chronodia said. She said she was the master of all time and space, then she said she is omnipresent across all time and space, then she said she transcends all time and space and a whole bunch of other stuff. It's some parts are somewhat vague, but she sounds really blunt about herself in all regards.

 

[Sixo_Bullets]

@old profiles

 

[TartaChocholate]

It was really needed, FF was in need for some heavy rework.

Yay! Cecil!

 

[Bware1]

For our profiles would anyone be opposed to profile pic changes to the cast, I don't know if anyone remembers from the first discussion thread but I removed the background for some of them to see if they were acceptable for replacement but wanted to get opinons. Would you guys mind if I post them?

 

[TartaChocholate]

I'm interested in seeing what you have in mind, at least.

 

[Bware1]

These are just the ones that came out better than the rest. Need to re-do or finish the remaning ones. Would you rather look at a Dissidia in game model? Or a CGI render? Lightning is the one who needs it least, but just wanted to throw her in there for discussion along with the others.Since it's done.

Warrior of Light-FF1


Bartz-FF5


Terra-FF6


Zidane-FF9


Noctis-FF15


Lightning-FF13:Lightning Returns

 

[TartaChocholate]

Our boys and girls look fantastic!

An additional note, looking at the enemies and such within the games, it's not far fetched to make a case for Immortality Negation and Regenerationn Negation of different types (Undead being the most common) for the playable cast. It would be good to keep heads up for that.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

"something something just beating up undead isn't immortality negation"

 

[PaChi2]

Resident Evil

 

[Bware1]

Immortality Negation for the playable cast of what games, as for profile pics...anyone else have opinons on wheather or not to add these for our boys and girls?

 

[TartaChocholate]

I meant it that it could be worth to keep eyes peeled for possible cases when researching the games. I am at least doing so while looking at VII's stuff.

I say use the pics for charas that have theirs, at least I am doing so with Cloud.

@Pachi: I dunno why that in this context reminded me of Doraemon: Nobita's Resident Evil.

 

[Bware1]

Well if people here are cool with it I'll go ahead and replace em

 

[TartaChocholate]

Probably you could ask Medeus just in case.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm neutral regarding the image replacements, but would like to know what other staff members think.

 

[PaChi2]

Terra looks awesome.

 

[PaChi2]

FF battle!

 

[Sixo_Bullets]

A new versus thread for the page updates.

 

[ZERO7772]

Pretty random question, but how tall is Sephy again? The wiki list him at 185cm but that can't be true considering how he towers over Zack who is around 185cm himself.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well, according to the FFwiki that info is from the NA and European manuals, so I dunno how canon that is. The 10th anniversary Ultimania lists his height and most of his info as "Unknown"

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I recall Sephiroth was stated to be around 6'1" with his sword length being 7 feet. I know that's what RPGClassics seems to say, but don't know where the primary source came from.