Fate Servant Tiering CRT continued

[DMB_1]

Still, it would only scale to Pashupata and Noble Phantasms of similar power.

 

[John985]

And that's fine.

And the travel speed of Altera's NP need to be fixed like Chiron's NP.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Im talking about the storm it created.

Which we don't see in FGO or in any description of the NP, so why should it be considered anything more than fancy effects?

 

[John985]

Attack animation is one of the reason why JRPG characters have a tier.

And still waiting for Karna and Arjuna animation update on FGO cause it's really boring.

 

[DMB_1]

I really don't see the issue with at least trying to calculate that whirlwind.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Wait, Pashupata creates the storm in that clip? It looked like the storm was already there.

 

[DMB_1]

You can clearly see a whirlwind forming around Arjuna when he first tries to charge the attack and goes up in the air, as well as making a hole between teh clouds once the ball goes up.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, I saw the whirlwind and the hole, but when it was planning upwards, the cloud was already there.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Attack animation is one of the reason why JRPG characters have a tier.

And still waiting for Karna and Arjuna animation update on FGO cause it's really boring.

Attack Animation is also how Ishtar got wanked to Planet level, so unless you have a reason other than "it looks like that" we should just stick to the actual NP descriptions.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It was more of a misunderstanding of the mechanics of the NP rather than the animation.

 

[RegisNex1232]

It was more of a misunderstanding of the mechanics of the NP rather than the animation.

Taking the animation at face value resulted in a miscalculation and now we should do the same for Pashupata? I'm not sure why we should repeatedly make the same mistakes.

 

[Paul_Frank]

She was planet level because we took firing the concept of Venus as firing Venus

This would be true but age of myth Venus isn't the same as the planet

It had almost nothing to do with the animation

 

[RegisNex1232]

She was planet level because we took firing the concept of Venus as firing Venus

This would be true but age of myth Venus isn't the same as the planet

It had almost nothing to do with the animation

And it was because of the animation that firing the concept got equated to firing a planet. Please don't act dumb about something that can easily be checked by going to the calc.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, like what Paul said. It was because "firing" Venus was taken as literally the planet and not the concept. If something like Sanzang's Noble Phantasm's animation was more impressive, would you disagree with calcing it because smacking the opponent into a mountain isn't strictly said to be a part of the Noble Phantasm?

 

[RegisNex1232]

I disagree with using fancy, misinterpreted visuals for calcs over actual feats and descriptions and I'm not sure why people are somehow thinking that the actual Venus being fired came out of nowhere rather than being inspired by the visuals, when that was said in the calc itself.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So what would be an example of a description for a Noble Phantasm that can be calc'd?


" fancy, misinterpreted visuals for calcs "

But there isn't a misinterpretation in the Pashupata storm thing.

 

[DMB_1]

But Pashupata's effect is not creating a storm, that would be just a consequence of its power.

If a Noble Phantasm visually blows up a city with its sheer power, does it have to be discarded because "blowing up a city" isn't part of its description?

The best thing to figure out is what Pashupata is actually doing, whether creating the former simply making a hole in an already existing one.

 

[John985]

If you look at the video properly, there was no storm at first.

 

[RegisNex1232]

So what would be an example of a description for a Noble Phantasm that can be calc'd?


" fancy, misinterpreted visuals for calcs "

But there isn't a misinterpretation in the Pashupata storm thing.

Something like Spartacus destroying a meteor with Crying Warmonger.

The visual shows a storm/whirlwind forming and trying to calc the energy for that, when the description makes no mention of it, nor the story and it ignores trying to actually calc/evaluate what the NP does to people in favour of passive, unmentioned effects.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But that's not described in the NP.


I don't really see many cases of a NP's effects on a person that useful to calc.

"favour of passive, unmentioned effects."

So your problem is that it's passive? I don't see how it being unmentioned is a problem.

 

[RegisNex1232]

But that's not described in the NP.


I don't really see many cases of a NP's effects on a person that useful to calc.

"favour of passive, unmentioned effects."

So your problem is that it's passive? I don't see how it being unmentioned is a problem.

It's a feat, which is what I explicitly mentioned in earlier posts as better than Arjuna's occasionally whirlwind which is exaggerated in Extella.

It being unmentioned is a problem when not all depictions show the exact same thing and there is zero reference to it in both mats and story, so why should we take it at face value?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Oh, wait you do mean like calcing that feat? Yeah, I'm all for that.

That makes sense. If someone found a scan of people commenting on the fact that Pashupata makes a storm, would you agree with it then?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Sure, but precedence for me is actual feat > NP description > noted passive/other effects (some NPs aren't damage dealing) > what we see as a very last resort.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

By actual feat, do you mean what happens when the NP hits someone? And for noted passive/effects, wouldn't that be part of the NP description?

Does anyone have more scans besides this of Spartacus destroying the Meteor?

 

[AguilaR101]

I think the profiles should be updated now based off Berserker's baseline 7-A mountainbust, full power noble phatasms could be rated as higher for the time being. New feats can be brought up and evaluated at a later time, waiting for feats to show up before applying updates is only going to make this revision unnecessarily longer.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, I don't think there are any feats left for Servants physically without Noble Phantasms.

 

[AguilaR101]

Bump.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Okay, do you guys want to take advantage of how we named the Servants on this wiki and start revising their stats by Class? As in, someone's going to look at the stats for Servants of [Insert Class], that way it splits up the workload and makes it faster.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This idea of writing "May change over time" is pretty bad.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

You mean in character stats? I don't think anyone's brought up that type of wording being added.

 

[Paul_Frank]

just fix Roa's second key and scale people up from him

 

[AguilaR101]

So this hasn't moved anywhere. OK

From what I can infer, the current physical scaling of servants works even if Berseker is only baseline 7-A now, so that doesn't have to change.

What needs to go is:

• Saber (Fate/stay night) and Excalibur (Fate) ~385 MT Narutoforums calc which has dead image links and is now outdated

• High 7-A rating in general which from what I could infer was extrapolated from Caliburn's and Nine Lives Blade Works' ability to take multiple of Berserker (Fate/stay night) lifes at once, since Bereserker is only baseline 7-A (100 MT) it would only reach 800 Megatons, which is Mountain level+ but would only be tiered as Higher

• 6-C rating in general since the only thing that supported it was a statement about the Spartacus self destruct being comparable to an earthquake, but that requires the earthquake to be magnitude 10 for which there isn't enough evidence

Other stuff:

Excalibur Morgan could be scaled to the NASA-estimated real life impact force of Bennu which is 1.2 Gigatons High 7-A since Demiya only managed to fragment it during the shinjiku singularity, this would be consistent with NLBW and Caliburn being Mountain level+ from killing berserker multiple times.

Is this fine?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I think we should also remove all the +'s from the 7-B Servant's profiles. Herc's baseline and would oneshot all of them so they're probably under the 50 megatons.

 

[John985]

Is there no one gonna calculate the Galatine in Extra Anime?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Dargoo (or someone else) said it wouldn't produce good results. Like, nothing above what we already have.

 

[AguilaR101]

That seems fine at a glance.

OK so in short:

-Physical stats remain practically the same, servants rated 7-B lose the City level+ and are just plain City level

-lower tiered NPs remain as 7-A, Mountain level

-High 7-A gets dropped to higher and is rated as Mountain level+ on the basis NPs this strong can take up to 8 lives off Berserker

-Excalibur Morgan gets dropped to High 7-A and is rated at 1.2 GT Large Mountain level based on the RL KE of Bennu

I would suggest that someone looked up and checked how good saber alter's mana reserves were during the Shinjiku singularity, if she wasn't hooked to a grail like she was during Heaven's Feel route the AP of Morgan may scale to normal Excaliblast (saber under Rin/Kiritsugu).

Are these changes agreeable @EE?

 

[John985]

How about the sand storm of KH? I remember it was posted in the previews thread.

 

[AguilaR101]

It's probably better if you gather all the information regarding relevant feat ands have them evaluated and applied at a later time, these CRTs have been going for 5 months now and no feat that has been brought up so far has changed anything.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Wait, don't forget that we have to change Gawain's Sun Key to Mountain Level instead of Large Mountain level because the multiplier makes him only 300 megatons.

 

[Schnee_One]

Playable Caster (Tamamo-no-Mae) should be downgraded to 700 megatons in her High 7A form as well