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Fate: 7-A Servants

Saber definitely didn't have a good amount of mana. She is summoned with less than normal, burnt through 20% of it in the first night just from fixing her armor, let alone what was needed to fight Herc and Cu as well as heal from GB, ends up fighting Assassin the day after or so where she collapses right after he leaves, goes and fights Rider across the city before using Excalibur and collapses again, is nerfed to human levels from lack of mana, goes to save Shirou with Rin and Archer, is nothing but dead weight until Shirou bangs her, is still useless but actually able to harm him iirc unlike before and gets thrashed until plot saves them via crappy projection of Caliburn.

Herc wasn't scratched by Saber once in their first fight when she was basically in peak condition from being summoned an hour ago. Herc was harmed after she got laid and still deflected Excaliblast meaning this Saber is stronger than the one that beat Rider.

Its fine, I didn't know about the post limit for a while myself. Don't quote walls of text either though. Adds unecessary length to the thread. Just "@user" and type the message.

Edit: Shinji provided nothing for Rider and is actually a worse Master than Shirou. Rider's power comes solely from all the people she ate and is still painfully below Shirou Saber even with her Monstrous Strength.
 
hmm, no, while it's true that Saber was heavily weakened in her fight against ider, she actually could fight JUST fine but in her fight against Berserker she couldn't even fight more than a few minutes before disappearing, and also, after being ****** by Shirou, she still couldn't scratch Berserker, only dodge and parry a few attacks

Edit: ah, i actually completely forgot that Shinji doesn't have any magical circuit
 
Also, a quick question (that doesn't have any type of relation with this thread at all)

If Touma(Toaru) punched Shirou with IB, would that kill him or would return him back to a non-magus? I mean, most of Shirou's circuits are artificial and were created using his own nervous system as a basis.
 
Escanor.

Again.

You have literally no need to double or triple post. Just edit whatever you forgot to say or wanted to add to the original post, the thread is already long as it is.

And it would do nothing. Imagine breaker doesn't destroy supernatural stuff that is natural to the world. People's life force is something natural, he hasn't killed anyone with a hand shake, the magical energy magicians distill from that life force is not. The natural energy in ley lines that lets the planet thrive also don't get destroyed. Magic Circuits are a natural thing that's part of the soul by default.

Regardless, the question is unrelated to the thread and would be better asked somewhere like the general Nasuverse discussion thread and not here.
 
What Dragon said for your question.

In HF Saber completely stomps Rider without trying. The fact that Rider could actually fight her proves just how weak she was.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
What Dragon said for your question.
In HF Saber completely stomps Rider without trying. The fact that Rider could actually fight her proves just how weak she was.
Click to expand...
I'll concede yor point about that, but there is still the claim of Illya. I guess it should be discarded as a non valid point?
 
Probably yeah. Illya hasn't actually seen a full power Excalibur and Salter didn't one shot Herc with one. I feel she was probably basing it off of the fact that it was King Arthur and the strongest holy sword, definitely has the hype behind it to make such a claim. Possibly low key mocking as well, "Your Servant might have been awesome enough to pull it off but you just sucked too much as a Master, Onii-chan."
 
Has anybody copied the blog contents to this wiki yet? Nothing is likely going to happen until then.
 
Qliphoth Bacikal said:
Everlasting saw this calc too and he told me that this would affect a number of pages if this checks out.

Mainly NotS Gawain who, seeing as he appears to scale to Hercs feat(right?), his stats would downgrade to Mountain+. This in turn would affect King Hassan and Goddess Rhon/Lion King's stats as well for what he put out. DK who else will be affected by this but that's the main ones he listed to me.

Edit: Think I meant to say is seeing as Gawain is scaled to Hercs feat, or assumingly so, his Numeral Saint boost would downgrade him to Mountain+ with the new calc above. And this would affect other characters like Grand Servant Hassan and Lion King.
Click to expand...
Lion King And KH should be fine at High 7-A due to both scaling far above Numeral Gawain.
 
@Ram: Possibly, though Ever noted that's not how it works and from what I've seen thrown around here every now and then, being far above someone isn't enough to get bumped/stay an entire tier above someone they're stronger to.

We can add at least 7-A+ for KH and LK, likely far higher for KH and...not sure if LK has it too which I think is good enough for me.

We do need to have the calc checked first though we might have to wait cuz I saw Rin mention that a calc member wants to do it from scratch so we'll see if anything's changed or not.
 
@Dragon: How else are we supposed to scale King Hassan (the Grand Servant ver. ofc) and Lion King/Goddess Rhon then? Putting them at High 7-A wouldn't work if we go by the new calc (assuming it gets accepted) and putting them at least 7-A doesn't make sense when KH can toy around with Gawain in his Numeral Saint form and Lion King nearly killed Gawain in Camelot with just a fraction of her blast.

So they need something on them even if they don't have a calc.
 
I mean, 7-B+ via backscaling was accepted before for the servants. And it also seems to be fine with Soul Calibur characters, so why not upscale to 7-A+?
 
Soul Caliber doesn't backscale to 7B+, they have a feat on that level.

If its an actual number, then a plus is fine.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
When a character stomps another, you just put At least or Higher. You don't just bump them up to the next tier.
Click to expand...
I mean, you can within reason.

If you one-shot a High 8-C+ character you should naturally be 8-B, especially if the gap is less than 2x.
 
@QB I mean KH blocked Sun Buffed Gawain's strike with ease and stated that his strike wouldn't even disturb him while sleeping. Lion King's power and authority was stated to be something that no normal Servant could handle either. I doubt A+ Nps (which we rate as High 7-A) would one shot them.
 
@Ram: Point. They could stay if that's the case, but I'd probably take out the at least before their High 7-A. They can still retain their likely far higher tier, though.
 
Hagane no Saiyajin said:
Heard their was going to be a downgrade, mind asking how big and for which tiers?
Click to expand...
Depends on what the new calcs for the Apocrypha feats and the calc for the Excalibur feat result in. This mainly effects the current characters that are 7-A/7-B and anyone that is a Servant or scales to one in some way.
 
Quetz temple np should be downgraded because it takes solar winds 4 days to get to earth whereas solar flares like in hours but for some reason the one who made her page did put her np at 5-A which in my terms should be around the 6 tier.
 
A friend of mine and I ran some of the calculations.

The Karna vs Sieg feats were almost impossible to calculate properly, and the outcome we got sadly isn't notable. Both of the feats were casual and don't stack up that high on the AP scale so they don't really apply

We ran the feat from the opening of Apocrypha and got city level. I'll paste this into a blog for evaluation, but it won't help as much as we had hoped. Mordred has better feats in grand order anyway
 
Excalibur atomizing should be considered hax, or else that feat would end up being High 6-B to High 6-A.
 


Going by the comments Don't Talk seems to have an issue with the calc itself. Perhaps have the calc group take a look at that since that calc hasn't been looked at either.

Has this been resolved?
 
DMB 1 said:
Excalibur atomizing should be considered hax, or else that feat would end up being High 6-B to High 6-A.
Click to expand...
This could be acceptable. Atomizes but does not bypass durability, since comparable weapons dont atomizes but have comparable DC. Vaporizing can be used to calc since all of the same general swords do that with their beam attacks
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
In most cases it does, but it does not have to by necessity. Similar to Zero's existence erasure which does not bypass durability
Click to expand...
Is there any reason to assume that atomization here doesn't ignore durability? And something tells me that would yield outlierish results.
 
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