Fairy Tail: Spriggans Scaling to Etherion

[Eseseso]

I just have to say this about the incoming scaling mess we're gonna have...may Mashima have mercy on us all.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Wait, is there an in series magic power level numbers thing?

 

[BlackeJan]

U know how many characters have a title and never shown to do such a thing? do y’all know she can do it in 1 go? would her powers be overtime?

 

[Damage3245]

The "Nation Destroyer" stuff has been crossed out of the OP so I assume I don't need to address it, but as BlakeJan says, her having that title or having "enough magic power to destroy a country" isn't conclusive support for a baseline High 6-A rating.

Some more that supports this is in 100YQ, Brandish is capable of making Gajeel huge enough to be 6-A with casual punches. Now I know a year passes between X792 and X793, but Brandish isn’t exactly the type of person who trains, so it’s likely that Brandish is capable of this in X792 as well. However I acknowledge that people in Fairy Tail are known to just get passively stronger over short periods of time, so I admit this isn’t as solid as I would like.

I expected this to be crossed out as well, but as I said this isn't a feat that is dependent on Brandish's magic power. Gajeel has 6-A Striking Strength because of his mass, not the magic power he has / what Brandish is using.

Even if we assumed Brandish could make herself this big as well and attain 6-A striking strength, it wouldn't be a scaleable feat for magic power to the other Spriggans.

Now Wall very blatantly says that he has his own Etherion and is going to use it against Laxus. Now there has only been one other Etherion and it’s one defining feature is that it is a super powerful weapon that is capable of destroying countries. So when Wall says he is firing his own Etherion, it wouldn’t make sense for it to be a different level of power. Ocaam’s Razor would dictate that Wall’s Etherion would be the same power as the other Etherion. It makes little sense for it to be weaker or stronger than that Etherion. Hiro even goes out of his way to suggest this process is Wall generating a whole lot of power.

Even if I accept that Wall has High 6-A AP with Etherion (which I still don't believe is the exact same satellite weapon given that he was going to fire it out of his hand), I don't think this should be used for scaling to the other Spriggans without more direct statements / feats.

The Spriggans being roughly comparable to each other in general doesn't guarantee that they could each do the same amount of destruction. The Etherion from Wall is something that is charged up, and requires special ammunition to use. It is not evidence that he can fire High 6-A attacks whenever he wants, or that the other Spriggans can do the same feat.

It does not seem inconsistent to me for the likes of August or Irene to be above Walls' ordinary magic / attacks, and still not scale to his Etherion.

Now August later says that he possesses enough power to wipe the entire country of Fiore off the face of the world, albeit he says this is at the cost of his life. However this doesn’t explicitly negate anything as the point of the attack is that it vaporizes the blood of individuals across the entire country alongside melting the entire country down. So it’s not as clear cut as August being incapable of having High 6-A power normally.

While I see what you mean, and it isn't a complete antifeat, August's words aren't that sacrificing his life is necessary for vaporizing everyone's blood, but for "wiping the country off of the map" which implies destruction to me, and therefore he can only attain that level of destruction by sacrificing his life.

I'm sure others have already commented on this though so I won't go into it much more.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

"The Spriggans being roughly comparable to each other in general doesn't guarantee that they could each do the same amount of destruction. The Etherion from Wall is something that is charged up, and requires special ammunition to use. It is not evidence that he can fire High 6-A attacks whenever he wants, or that the other Spriggans can do the same feat."


This is nitpicking and it doesn't make any sense since ap scales to magic power in ft. All of them don't need etherion level destruction all they need is comparable magic power thats what ap is for. Don't quite need the DC but you have the ap.

Also you can't say no proof Spriggans can do the same feat when brandish herself literally has and has statements but it was taken out of the op. So its definitely there.

 

[Damage3245]

This is nitpicking and it doesn't make any sense since ap scales to magic power in ft. All of them don't need etherion level destruction all they need is comparable magic power thats what ap is for. Don't quite need the DC but you have the ap.

They aren't compared in magic power to Wall's Etherion.

Also you can't say no proof Spriggans can do the same feat when brandish herself literally has and has statements but it was taken out of the op. So its definitely there.

Brandish herself does not have the same feat.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The "Nation Destroyer" stuff has been crossed out of the OP so I assume I don't need to address it, but as BlakeJan says, her having that title or having "enough magic power to destroy a country" isn't conclusive support for a baseline High 6-A rating.

What? Dude it literally says she has the magic power to destroy a country… Not only is that direct, but it entirely supports Etherion level Spriggans…

I expected this to be crossed out as well, but as I said this isn't a feat that is dependent on Brandish's magic power. Gajeel has 6-A Striking Strength because of his mass, not the magic power he has / what Brandish is using.

Even if we assumed Brandish could make herself this big as well and attain 6-A striking strength, it wouldn't be a scaleable feat for magic power to the other Spriggans.

I agree this is iffy, it’s not the most solid.

Even if I accept that Wall has High 6-A AP with Etherion (which I still don't believe is the exact same satellite weapon given that he was going to fire it out of his hand), I don't think this should be used for scaling to the other Spriggans without more direct statements / feats.

The Spriggans being roughly comparable to each other in general doesn't guarantee that they could each do the same amount of destruction. The Etherion from Wall is something that is charged up, and requires special ammunition to use. It is not evidence that he can fire High 6-A attacks whenever he wants, or that the other Spriggans can do the same feat.

I mean no offense, but this isn’t an argument. All you’re saying is that Wall can’t scale to this level and the other Spriggans can’t scale to Wall’s Etherion because you don’t believe he can… Also the other Spriggans don’t need to be able to do the same kind of destruction man. Etherion is a weapon that Wall has to charge and fill up himself with his own magic power. He’s the one who needs to meet the requirements of power to fire the thing and he doesn’t magically have far more magic power than the other Spriggans. It is consistently shown and stated that other Spriggans are relative to him and would have the same level of magic power. In fact, August and Irene are very clearly said to be far stronger than him, and would therefore scale above anything he is capable of. Also while I am suggesting backscaling as I agree that all the Spriggans shouldn’t be 100% be scaling to his strongest attack with their base moves, they would still be relative to that magic power output on Etherion’s. Also this whole charging thing doesn’t negate anything, Wall took like a few seconds to gather the power and was gonna fire it almost immediately. It’s practically the same time as a Kamehameha took to charge.

It does not seem inconsistent to me for the likes of August or Irene to be above Walls' ordinary magic / attacks, and still not scale to his Etherion.

I mean they are blatantly stated constantly even in Base to be way stronger than the other Spriggans, so I don’t get why you think this.

While I see what you mean, and it isn't a complete antifeat, August's words aren't that sacrificing his life is necessary for vaporizing everyone's blood, but for "wiping the country off of the map" which implies destruction to me, and therefore he can only attain that level of destruction by sacrificing his life.

It’s possible he just doesn’t have the range or AOE to do this regularly. You know you can have country destroying AP and not country destroying DC right? That’s how the other Spriggans can scale to Wtherion and maybe not be capable of country destroying DC. Which is basic scaling and AOE fallacy. I mean if we could only scale people to destruction they’ve shown, many people would be Tier 9. Besides the main function of the spell that actually targets people is the blood vaporization. The land melting is just a side effect of the spell.

Listen I get why you’d be skeptical to scale people to Etherion, but your entire argument is coming down to disbelief and incredulity in reference to the numerous feats and statements we know. You can’t just say the other Spriggans don’t scale to Wall’s Etherion because they don’t…

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah i agree (also the "A weapon isnt the same as the other weapon because is a replicate" is kinda stupid, by that logic we wont have any real weapons profiles as their power varies

 

[Damage3245]

What? Dude it literally says she has the magic power to destroy a country… Not only is that direct, but it entirely supports Etherion level Spriggans…

How does she destroy them? Because the phrasing in the official translation for making them "vanish" followed up by them talking about what type of magic she uses implies to me that she uses her shrinking hax, not outright country-busting attacks.

Etherion is a weapon that Wall has to charge and fill up himself with his own magic power.

He doesn't use just his own magic power, but special ammo too.

I mean no offense, but this isn’t an argument. All you’re saying is that Wall can’t scale to this level and the other Spriggans can’t scale to Wall’s Etherion because you don’t believe he can…

I'm just basing my beliefs on the scaling off of the evidence presented so far for it.

I mean they are blatantly stated constantly even in Base to be way stronger than the other Spriggans, so I don’t get why you think this.

They can be stronger than Wall without being stronger than the Etherion.

You can’t just say the other Spriggans don’t scale to Wall’s Etherion because they don’t…

I'd rather take that approach than saying "They scale to Wall's Etherion because they just do." There doesn't seem to be any specific feat or statement presented that would support it, and there needs to be positive evidence for this considering how big of an upgrade this is how a huge portion of the cast.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

How does she destroy them? Because the phrasing in the official translation for making them "vanish" followed up by them talking about what type of magic she uses implies to me that she uses her shrinking hax, not outright country-busting attacks.

It’s still very much a country destroying statement that supports Etherion level Spriggans

He doesn't use just his own magic power, but special ammo too.

Yes, but he has to power it all with his magic power…

I'd rather take that approach than saying "They scale to Wall's Etherion because they just do." There doesn't seem to be any specific feat or statement presented that would support it, and there needs to be positive evidence for this considering how big of an upgrade this is how a huge portion of the cast.

They are stated to be far stronger than Wall… And Wall can fire Etherion… It would completely contradict the story to suggest that Wall’s AP is above Irene and August

 

[Livinmeme]

How does she destroy them? Because the phrasing in the official translation for making them "vanish" followed up by them talking about what type of magic she uses implies to me that she uses her shrinking hax, not outright country-busting attacks.



He doesn't use just his own magic power, but special ammo too.



I'm just basing my beliefs on the scaling off of the evidence presented so far for it.



They can be stronger than Wall without being stronger than the Etherion.



I'd rather take that approach than saying "They scale to Wall's Etherion because they just do." There doesn't seem to be any specific feat or statement presented that would support it, and there needs to be positive evidence for this considering how big of an upgrade this is how a huge portion of the cast.

"Country Destroyer Brandish, while not belligerent, also holds the magical power to destroy the country"

Man seriously

 

[CNBA3]

and considering that Gajeel with Brandish's power managed to deliver blows that were calculated would make her scale to that since her title is related to that sort of feat, which would be somewhat higher than what Wall's heat blasts could produce.

 

[Eseseso]

Just wanna add that Alvarez Soldiers will now each scale to 1/11th of the baseline High 6-A's, so A LOT of people are now going to go from 7-A to 403 teratons.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Just wanna add that Alvarez Soldiers will now each scale to 1/11th of the baseline High 6-A's, so A LOT of people are now going to go from 7-A to 403 teratons.

When a child like Romeo is now Multi Continental lmao

 

[Eseseso]

When a child like Romeo is now Multi Continental lmao

Not multi-continent (he'd actually be High 6-B), but still you're right that it's funny.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Just wanna add that Alvarez Soldiers will now each scale to 1/11th of the baseline High 6-A's, so A LOT of people are now going to go from 7-A to 403 teratons.

No they won't, I will never scale Alvarez Soldiers to Etherion

They will stay the same

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Imma still use my Romeo~Alvarez Soldiers>>>Eclipse Dragons=Multi Continental meta off site to get even Low tier FT members to insane levels

 

[Eseseso]

No they won't, I will never scale Alvarez Soldiers to Etherion

They will stay the same

But 11 soldiers together overwhelmed Base Natsu. That's why they scale to 1/11th of Base Natsu already.

I really don't want them to be above 7-A for scaling reasons, but that's how we're doing scaling already, mi amigo.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

But 11 soldiers together overwhelmed Base Natsu. That's why they scale to 1/11th of Base Natsu already.

I really don't want them to be above 7-A for scaling reasons, but that's how we're doing scaling already, mi amigo.

That was back when Base Natsu was casually far above baseline 6-C

But when he's already backscaling from a High 6-A attack, nah I don't think so

 

[Eseseso]

That was back when Base Natsu was casually far above baseline 6-C

But when he's already backscaling from a High 6-A attack, nah I don't think so

Oh, THANK GOD.

No seriously, I've had enough insane power creep for one day, we don't need High 6-B fodder.

But will their tier stay the same? Because most of the fodder tier scale to them.

 

[Livinmeme]

That was back when Base Natsu was casually far above baseline 6-C

But when he's already backscaling from a High 6-A attack, nah I don't think so

Ok but why wouldnt they scale????

 

[StrawHatArslan]

High 6-B Alvarez shoulders? What?!!!

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

But will their tier stay the same? Because most of the fodder tier scale to them.

The 7-A becomes 7-B+

Ok but why wouldnt they scale????

Cause they are fodder and shouldn't be scaling to a very serious Base Natsu

Casual Base Natsu in the past would be casually 6-C and scale above a bunch of 7-B's, so it was more consistent, but now that Natsu will be backscaling from High 6-A, I don't agree with the 1/11 thing

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

High 6-B Alvarez shoulders? What?!!!

No, I explicitly said they wouldn't scale

 

[Livinmeme]

...makes sense

 

[StrawHatArslan]

"Country Destroyer Brandish, while not belligerent, also holds the magical power to destroy the country"

Man seriously

Couldn’t that just be from her magic? Which isnt AP applicable iirc, unless I’m missing something

 

[Livinmeme]

Couldn’t that just be from her magic? Which isnt AP applicable iirc, unless I’m missing something

And why would that be???

 

[StrawHatArslan]

And why would that be???

Her magic negates Durability and is literally hax iirc, that’s why she wasn’t rated at country level before, it isn’t physical ap

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah but is from her magic, because as far as i know you are just headcanoing

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Yeah but is from her magic, because as far as i know you are just headcanoing

bro that’s literally why she wasnt continent level before, since her magic is hax, it isn’t physical AP, I’m not headcanoning, the wiki literally didn’t rate her at that level before BECAUSE of that

 

[Livinmeme]

bro that’s literally why she wasnt continent level before, since her magic is hax, it isn’t physical AP, I’m not headcanoning, the wiki literally didn’t rate her at that level before BECAUSE of that

I am asking why you think is from her magic, not why her magic doesnt scale to AP

 

[Zencha9]

what how is magic a source of power in the verse hax?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I am asking why you think is from her magic, not why her magic doesnt scale to AP

what are you saying

 

[StrawHatArslan]

what how is magic a source of power in the verse hax?

That’s literally how the wiki previously considered it, cause her magic involves negating durability and changing the mass of an object through hax

 

[CNBA3]

considering that we still scale kinetic energy for during and/or afterward of her magic used, it would still be applicable to Stats, so her magic growing in mass would also increase Kinetic Energy output, and physical attacks have magic power behind them too. and considering that her abilities have a limit in terms of strength of individuals, then it wouldn't really be absolute in that sense.

 

[KingTempest]

"Changing the mass of an object through hax" is now AP applicable.

Saying "through hax" is just decoration for the statement. She scales, whether yall like it or not

 

[Damage3245]

"Changing the mass of an object through hax" is now AP applicable.

Yes, but what kind of result do her feats get from that table?

 

[KingTempest]

Not too sure, probably not 6-A, but the point is that this "hax hax hax hax" excuse doesn't fly by anymore

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Not too sure, probably not 6-A, but the point is that this "hax hax hax hax" excuse doesn't fly by anymore

Okay, but that’s the reason why it wasn’t applicable before, then you made that CRT

 

[Zencha9]

then yea after seeing that H6A brandish FRA finally she gets the respect she deserves