• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fairy Tail: Spriggans Scaling to Etherion

Status
Not open for further replies.

DemonGodMitchAubin

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
Calculation Group
15,320
14,931
This is something I always knew would happen one day… Since the start of my career on this site years ago, I’ve been putting this off for so goddamn long because it was a topic that was so fervently opposed by others… Hell it was hard for us to even scale the God Tiers to Etherion. I’ve even prevented other people from attempting the revision because I thought it was a fruitless endeavor. But I would be lying if part of me inside didn’t always believe that I was wrong in not using this meta and that I was just avoiding the subject. So here it is, after all these years, I’m finally addressing the topic again and even if this doesn’t get accepted, I’m content with things staying the same, so let’s get started.

Ok, so as we all know by now, Etherion is a weapon in the Fairy Tail world that is said to be capable of destroying an entire country in an instant several times, which we calced to be High 6-A. Now there has only ever been one Etherion and whenever it is referred to, it is very blatantly followed by a statement that it has the power to destroy an entire country.

Now Wall very blatantly says that he has his own Etherion and is going to use it against Laxus. Now there has only been one other Etherion and it’s one defining feature is that it is a super powerful weapon that is capable of destroying countries. So when Wall says he is firing his own Etherion, it wouldn’t make sense for it to be a different level of power. Ocaam’s Razor would dictate that Wall’s Etherion would be the same power as the other Etherion. It makes little sense for it to be weaker or stronger than that Etherion. Hiro even goes out of his way to suggest this process is Wall generating a whole lot of power.

Ok, now that isn’t the only piece of information that we have that supports the scaling as there is bonus info that supports this all

First of all, we know that Acnologia’s Roar on Tenrou Island has a record high ethernano rating, meaning record high magic power, which makes it stronger than Etherion. Gray was present on Tenrou Island and felt his magic power. And the first time that Gray see’s Brandish, he states that her level of magic power is like nothing he’s ever felt before. Now this would mean that Brandish’s Magic Power would scale above Acnologia’s Tenrou Island Roar, which scales above Etherion.

What really adds to this is that Brandish is known as the “Nation Destroyer” and she has the powers to make nations vanish. Now this isn’t extremely blatant, but nations in Fairy Tail are very big considering that even small countries like Fiore require 6-A power to be destroyed. So this adds to the idea that Spriggans would be on this level.


Some more that supports this is in 100YQ, Brandish is capable of making Gajeel huge enough to be 6-A with casual punches. Now I know a year passes between X792 and X793, but Brandish isn’t exactly the type of person who trains, so it’s likely that Brandish is capable of this in X792 as well. However I acknowledge that people in Fairy Tail are known to just get passively stronger over short periods of time, so I admit this isn’t as solid as I would like.

Now August later says that he possesses enough power to wipe the entire country of Fiore off the face of the world, albeit he says this is at the cost of his life. However this doesn’t explicitly negate anything as the point of the attack is that it vaporizes the blood of individuals across the entire country alongside melting the entire country down. So it’s not as clear cut as August being incapable of having High 6-A power normally.

Now it’s implied that all of the Spriggans barring Larcade, August, and Irene are relative to each other. We know for a fact that Base August and Human Irene are on a level far above all the other Spriggans, as that is constantly stated by everyone, so they would be scaling above Wall’s Etherion. Characters like Wendy and Erza are capable of fighting and injuring Human Irene, so it makes very little sense for some of the Spriggans to be way below this feat, and all of the Spriggans should be scaling around the level of Etherion. That’s just very supported, there is not an implied gap between the Spriggans at all.

So since we know that Assault Mode Wall at his peak scales to Etherion and would be High 6-A (20.1 Petatons). Now the lower Spriggans like Brandish and Neinhart do scale on a lower level than Assault Mode Wall, but they would still be relative. Based on how Gray reacts to her magic power when he knows about Acnologia’s Roar on Tenrou as well. There’s a very simple solution, which is backscaling Brandish and the other weakest Spriggans to Baseline High 6-A.

Ok, so this affects a massive amount of the verse, changing everyone from X792 onwards. So the huge changes would be major, this is all the scaling.

Likely 6-A (Likely 2.2 Petatons): X792 Base Wendy, X792 Base Sherria, X792 Animal Soul Lisanna, X792 Base Elfman, and people on their level

6-A (2.2 Petatons): X793 Pre-Elentear Base Wendy, Base Nebaru, and people on their level

At least 6-A (At least 2.2 Petatons): X792 and X793 Makarov

Baseline High 6-A (4.435 Petatons): Brandish, Base Neinhart, X792 Base Natsu, Wraith Possessing Makarov, and people on their level

High 6-A (At least 4.435 Petatons, likely 8.87 Petatons): X792 Dragon Force Wendy, God Soul Dimaria, Third Origin Sheria, and people on their level

High 6-A (8.87 Petatons): X793 Base Gray, X793 Juvia, X793 Pre-Elentear Dragon Force Wendy, X793 Wendy Belserion, and people on their level

High 6-A (17.74 Petatons): X792 FDKM Natsu, X792 Dragon Force Gajeel, X792 Base Laxus, X792 Evolved Devil Slayer Mark Gray, X793 Devil Slayer Mark Gray, X793 Pre-Elentear Base Natsu, and people on their level

High 6-A (20.1 Petatons): Assault Mode Wall, Red Lightning Dragon Mode Laxus, and people on their level

High 6-A (35.48 Petatons): White Shadow Dragon Force Sting, Larcade, Base August, Human Form Irene, X793 Lucy’s Urano Metria, and people on their level

High 6-A (53.22 Petatons): X793 Pre-Elentear LFDM Natsu, and people on his level

High 6-A (70.96 Petatons): X793 FDKM Natsu, X793 Base Laxus, X793 Strongest Armors Erza, and people on their level

High 6-A (106.44 Petatons): X793 Enchantments Erza, X793 RLDM Laxus, Base Suzaku, Haku, Kirin, Misaki, and people on their level

High 6-A (887 Petatons): Dragon Form Irene, Ultimate Magic Form August, Base Zeref, X792 Dragon Force Natsu, Igneel’s Power Natsu, Pre-SBT Human Form Acnologia, Human Form Selene, Suzaku’s Kurnugi Style Abyss, X793 Dragon Force Natsu, X793 Fire Dragon King’s Scales Natsu, and people on their level

High 6-A (1.7 Exatons): Ignia’s Power Natsu, Half Power Dragon Form Mercphobia, and people on their level

High 6-A (3.55 Exatons): X792 Dragon Force+FDKM Natsu, Igneel’s Power+FDKM Natsu, Savage Dragon Fire Form Natsu, Fairy Heart Form Zeref, Pre-SBT Dragon Form Acnologia, Full Power Dragon Gods, and people on their level

High 6-A (6.8 Exatons): Ignia’s Power+FDKM Natsu, Post-SBT Human Form Acnologia, and people on their level

High 6-A (13.6 Extaons): Seven Fire Dragons Mode Natsu, Post-SBT Dragon Form Acnologia, and people on their level

So yeah, that’s a massive change to the verse, but I couldn’t help myself

If this all fails and isn't accepted, I at least know that I tried my best to try and attack this controversial, but correct subject

So yeah, it's a lot to take in, but I would appreciate as much input as possible so that this can be definitely settled
 
Last edited:
HYV5uDO.png
 
Now Wall very blatantly says that he has his own Etherion and is going to use it against Laxus. Now there has only been one other Etherion and it’s one defining feature is that it is a super powerful weapon that is capable of destroying countries. So when Wall says he is firing his own Etherion, it wouldn’t make sense for it to be a different level of power. Ocaam’s Razor would dictate that Wall’s Etherion would be the same power as the other Etherion. It makes little sense for it to be weaker or stronger than that Etherion. Hiro even goes out of his way to suggest this process is Wall generating a whole lot of power.

Can't really agree with that. Characters packing smaller, compact versions of weapons for portable use is a thing seen quite a lot in fiction and I'm not aware of anything suggesting Wall's Etherion operates on the same scale as the other Etherion.

While it is an assumption that his Etherion is inherently weaker (and I'm not stating that), it is still every bit of an assumption (to me) that his Etherion is exactly as powerful as the High 6-A Etherion.

Haven't gotten into the other bits of scaling yet, but just wanted to get that out of the way.

What really adds to this is that Brandish is known as the “Nation Destroyer” and she has the powers to make nations vanish. Now this isn’t extremely blatant, but nations in Fairy Tail are very big considering that even small countries like Fiore require 6-A power to be destroyed. So this adds to the idea that Spriggans would be on this level.

That doesn't support Brandish to be capable of doing that in a single attack. Destroying a nation over a short period of time should be relatively easy for someone like her even without Continent level AP especially since destroying a "nation" doesn't have to involve destroying the entire landmass of it as opposed to destroying any opposing armies, governments, organizations, populations, etc in her way.

Some more that supports this is in 100YQ, Brandish is capable of making Gajeel huge enough to be 6-A with casual punches. Now I know a year passes between X792 and X793, but Brandish isn’t exactly the type of person who trains, so it’s likely that Brandish is capable of this in X792 as well. However I acknowledge that people in Fairy Tail are known to just get passively stronger over short periods of time, so I admit this isn’t as solid as I would like.

I don't think this is really a supporting feat for Brandish's magic... this is a physical feat from a greatly size-enhanced Gajeel. Brandish isn't supplying the magic to make his punches that strong. It's coming about as a result from his increased size.

If it was dependent on magic from her and not Gajeel's mass, then the nature of calcing it in the first place becomes defunct.
 
Last edited:
Brandish being above Acnologia from Tenro because Gray sensed it would also imply Brandish is stronger than Acnologia during Acno vs Igneel... which just doesn't look right

Besides that, I kinda lean towards agreeing regarding Wahl's Etherion
 
And the first time that Gray see’s Brandish, he states that her level of magic power is like nothing he’s ever felt before. Now this would mean that Brandish’s Magic Power would scale above Acnologia’s Tenrou Island Roar, which scales above Etherion.
I think this part is rather meh, unless you got a scan indicating that Gray actually sensed Ac's power.

Everything else I don't see inherent issues with, so I'm positively neutral. However, Ac's Dragon Form scaling above Etherion based on produced record high magic energy values seems valid to me regardless of the verdict for everything else.

I agree with the notion that Wall calling his weapon Etherion indicates what Mitch said in a vacuum, but considering it is a smaller scale weapon I can see some reasonable doubt.
 
Can't really agree with that. Characters packing smaller, compact versions of weapons for portable use is a thing seen quite a lot in fiction and I'm not aware of anything suggesting Wall's Etherion operates on the same scale as the other Etherion.

While it is an assumption that his Etherion is inherently weaker (and I'm not stating that), it is still every bit of an assumption (to me) that his Etherion is exactly as powerful as the High 6-A Etherion.
It is equally an assumption to assume it is weaker or stronger than the other Etherion, so the most logical assumption based on Occam's Razor would be to consider it equal
 
It is equally an assumption to assume it is weaker or stronger than the other Etherion, so the most logical assumption based on Occam's Razor would be to consider it equal
Actually, the option that involves the least amount of assumptions is to say that is is unknown in relation to the other Etherion in terms of AP.
 
However, Ac's Dragon Form scaling above Etherion based on produced record high magic energy values seems valid to me regardless of the verdict for everything else.
Yeah that is extremely solid, the council mentioned etherion blast's magic power reading multiple times throughout the tower of heaven arc and specifically noted the magic power sucked up by tower of heaven to be 270 million edea
 
Brandish being above Acnologia from Tenro because Gray sensed it would also imply Brandish is stronger than Acnologia during Acno vs Igneel... which just doesn't look right

Besides that, I kinda lean towards agreeing regarding Wahl's Etherion
Yeah that the reason why I don't try using the Brandish>Acno roar argument

Since Acno when fighting Igneel was using way more power then

And that Igneel>>>Igneel Mark Natsu>>>Zeref>>>Brandish
 
My only question is why X792 DF Wendy only gets a likely 8.87 petatons, but beyond that, you know that I've felt this way for the longest time. There are some other things I'll add later because I'm about to leave school at this very minute so I don't have much time right now, but the point is: I agree with this.
 
I massively disagree with Wahl's Etherion. While I see where you're coming from with the Occam's Razor, but this almost feels like an abuse of the theory. Occam's Razor basically states: "The simplest explanation is usually the best one". However what you're doing is making an assumption just as bad/much as one who'd think it's of a smaller scale. It makes zero sense to me why he'd use an Etherion of that scale if Laxus is literally on the verge of death.

I'm neutral leaning towards disagreeing on using Gray as a basis for ethernano reading. Gray isn't even in the page when they talk about Acnologia.
 
Some tower of heaven stuff regarding the council noting etherion's readings. And yeah the anime shows Wahl using the satellite square etherion, the orbiting weapon which is why I lean towards agreeing with it

 
I'm not really in favor of the blanket-scaling granted to others for "Well, they should be comparable to Wall's Etherion" without much in the way of supporting evidence from what I can see.

It's just being taken a given that all of the Spriggan Tier characters should be comparable to that specific attack while he's in Assault Mode and charging himself up with ammunition.
 
The Etherion that Whal uses can’t be the same as the one that Fiore employed because the one that Fiore employed was stated to “not exist” after the tartoros battle
Council controls Etherion, Council exists no longer, which is why etherion can't be used anymore. Actually perhaps Wahl hacked into it
 
Yeah I completely disagree here. Just because Wahl has his own Etherion cannons doesn’t mean it’s gonna be in the same scale as the actual one. That’s like saying since Boruto can create a rasengan, then his own is in leagues with SPSM Naruto’s rasengan. There are many characters who have bravado names yet can’t even do of such so the whole “nation destroyer” could be overtime + August only powerful magic Ars Magia which blows his other spells right out of the water
 
You also have jellal stunning and presumably hurting a high 6-A dragon although very minor. This is a feat I say is bs but amongst other country or continental statements it doesn't seem as ludicrous as before.
 
Yeah I completely disagree here. Just because Wahl has his own Etherion cannons doesn’t mean it’s gonna be in the same scale as the actual one. That’s like saying since Boruto can create a rasengan, then his own is in leagues with SPSM Naruto’s rasengan. There are many characters who have bravado names yet can’t even do of such so the whole “nation destroyer” could be overtime + August only powerful magic Ars Magia which blows his other spells right out of the water
First off the Boruto example is horrible. Rasengan is a technique, not a weapon. Also, Mitch explained the whole Ars-Magia thing already
 
Actually Wahl's magic power most probably doesn't scale to Etherion. Because the no-name mages charging etherion aren't anywhere nearly that strong, they're probably just relying on fusing ethernanos in the atmosphere or something (or maybe it's the lacrimas idk). It was specifically stated even if all mages on the continent together add up it may not reach 270 million edea during tower of heaven arc
 
I would like to point out is is possible for brandish to be superior to tenrou acnologia as even Alvarez soldiers are superior to regular dragons just due to the fact they came from a later arc. And acnologia doesn't have a thing where you can't sense his magic power, in fact his magic power is always treated as overwhelming. And even still is treated like she had more magic power than anything they had ever experienced. Obviously spriggan acnologia one shots her but yea.
 
Last edited:
Well this is what I convinced myself, my stance rn:

Wahl has access to Etherion (as there's only one and that belongs to the council which exists no longer as stated in the manga), but the magic power he needs to expend to fire it doesn't need to be even close to it's output.

I'm not in favour of Brandish being stronger than tartaros arc Acnologia

But an upgrade is still due with Brandish's size manipulation feats and the magic power she's expending with them (because of the recent thread about quantifying size manip, well I know you said you won't get into size manip stuff until it's confirmed but still...)
 
First off the Boruto example is horrible. Rasengan is a technique, not a weapon. Also, Mitch explained the whole Ars-Magia thing already
It does though? Wahl said he can use the Etherion cannon when we don’t even know if it’s as powerful as the actual one is the same thing of Boruto rasengan would be as strong as Naruto who’s immensely powerful then his son
 
Well this is what I convinced myself, my stance rn:

Wahl has access to Etherion (as there's only one and that belongs to the council which exists no longer as stated in the manga), but the magic power he needs to expend to fire it doesn't need to be even close to it's output.

I'm not in favour of Brandish being stronger than tartaros arc Acnologia

But an upgrade is still due with Brandish's size manipulation feats and the magic power she's expending with them (because of the recent thread about quantifying size manip, well I know you said you won't get into size manip stuff until it's confirmed but still...)
I am not touching Size Manipulation feats at all until that CRT is completely finished, so don’t even go there right now man
 
Didn't Zeref and Makarov say that the spriggans who attacked Ishgar 10 years ago retreated out of fear of Etherion and Face ?
 
Didn't Zeref and Makarov say that the spriggans who attacked Ishgar 10 years ago retreated out of fear of Etherion and Face ?
This isn’t entirely relevant since as we know, a lot can happen in 10 Years

Everyone can get wicked more powerful in a year alone, so the Spriggans could just be stronger for all we know
 
if we don't know if Wahl's Etherion is at the same level or lower than the magic council's, can't we put it as "possibly High 6-A" ? Wahl's Etherion is similar to that of the magic council, and Brandish's "Nation Destroyer" title serves as support for the scale. I'm pretty sure her title is to literally destroy countries because she hinted at that before increasing Gajeel's size.
 
Actually Wahl's magic power most probably doesn't scale to Etherion. Because the no-name mages charging etherion aren't anywhere nearly that strong, they're probably just relying on fusing ethernanos in the atmosphere or something (or maybe it's the lacrimas idk). It was specifically stated even if all mages on the continent together add up it may not reach 270 million edea during tower of heaven arc
Using the Tower of Heaven arc is a pretty bad reference given that everyone got much stronger since then. Plus, this actually further supports that Wall is capable of what multiple mages back then were
 
Here's just my summarized point

Etherion's whole point is that it's a mega powerful country nuking cannon. That's it's one defining feature as a weapon. It's that it's stupid powerful. So the fact that Hiro has Wall specifically call his weapon Etherion. It just makes me believe it would logically be the same power. Why even call it Etherion if it's power is massively below the Council's Etherion, which is widely known for being able to nuke countries? Like it has no reason to be called Etherion if it's just a magic cannon that isn't remotely as strong as the Council's Etherion.

So yeah, to me, based on Occam's Razor, it just makes sense that Wall's Etherion = Council's Etherion
 
Etherion by itself is useless, it needs to be powered by a certain amount of Magic or whatever the Ed-whatever system it once. Etherion being powered by a much weaker source as opposed to the thousands / millions units of energy it actually takes for it to be able to country wipe.


I also heavily disagree with using Brandish as support, that's just a title which falls under the Name Association Fallacy.


Also Wahl doesn't even scale physically to it, and never used it on anyone.

Definitely disagreeing with the scaling.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top