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This example is terrible. It compares a technique that depends on the power of its wielder to a weapon whose power is constant. Please stop using this as an example, because it's comparing apples to oranges here.
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Fairy Tail: Spriggans Scaling to Etherion
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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- Tags
- etherion fairy tail wall eehto
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Those aren’t weapons. A more accurate example would be if Sasuke whips out his god tier Kusanagi, he loses it and then later Sarada says she is using a Kusanagi that looks identical to Sasuke’s. It makes no sense to assume the Kusanagi isn’t Sasuke’s one when there is only one of it to our knowledge. You are trying to say Natsu using FD roar is the same as Igneel using his FD roar which is just …… no.
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That's a sample size of "one". It's not a proof of a trend of Etherions having all Multi-Continental AP with every usage. An Etherion in the past being described as being able to take out a country with its blast radius doesn't mean that Wall's usage of it is the same.
Where is it stated that the amount of power Wall puts into his Etherion is the same as the earlier Etherion?
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- Thread starter
- #84
Etherion is constantly said to be a country nuking weapon as that it’s big purpose. It has a set power to it. Wall saying he can fire off Etherion would make it the same power. The idea that its an entirely separate weapon that isn’t remotely as strong as the Council’s Etherion is supported by literally nothing. It’s basically just a head canon to say that Wall’s Etherion can’t be the same because… Reasons…
I mean the argument is that we don’t know they’re the same, but we are literally told they are both Etherion, are charged up the same, and even look the same
So like… They should be the same
I mean the argument is that we don’t know they’re the same, but we are literally told they are both Etherion, are charged up the same, and even look the same
So like… They should be the same
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The definition of "Etherion" is a technique that can take out a nation.
It has a stated power level.
In it's description, it's stated that in general, it is a magic that can bust a nation.
Until Wall's Etherion is stated to be
A. A different Etherion
B. A different power level
We will use the same qualifications that Ishgar's Etherion falls under
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There is only one Etherion in the world of Fairy Tail, and that Etherion is defined as the weapon that can destroy a country in a single shot. There is no other iteration of Etherion besides this, and given the above proof, that Etherion is the same one being used by Wall. Etherion is a weapon, not a technique, meaning its power is set in stone.
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That doesn't seem to be the definition of it to me... They say that is within its capability but if this is supposed to be a shot of the actual Etherion being used then it obviously isn't firing with the radius that is used in the calcs for it.
This isn't AoE fallacy (not saying you'd say this, just putting it preemptively out there); this is just me trying to determine if the shots we've gotten of the Etherion being used are actually consistent with what we assume it to be.
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Yeah I’ve always questioned this as well.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,158
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1. Both charge up =\= they are equally charged
as one is charged by a lot of people and the other is not just wall
2. This doesn’t even scale to wall as it’s is a build up of his power overtime and definitely doesn’t scale to his normal attacks, so why are people trying to scale him to it?
Brandish did not increase gajeel AP just his size, his AP increase is as a result of his size Increase so that shouldn’t even be in the op in the first place and “nation destroyer” is a title not a rating
Also not sure how you guys describe Anti-feat but August dying to perform a 6A feat is a clear cut anti-feat
as one is charged by a lot of people and the other is not just wall
2. This doesn’t even scale to wall as it’s is a build up of his power overtime and definitely doesn’t scale to his normal attacks, so why are people trying to scale him to it?
Brandish did not increase gajeel AP just his size, his AP increase is as a result of his size Increase so that shouldn’t even be in the op in the first place and “nation destroyer” is a title not a rating
Also not sure how you guys describe Anti-feat but August dying to perform a 6A feat is a clear cut anti-feat
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The mages that charged it before are all fodder to Wall, it's that simple
This is about as overtime as Goku charging a Kamehameha, this does not serve as an overtime feat unless you want to take any instance of someone taking a bit to charge an attack as an overtime feat.
I've already mentioned this, but Ars-Magia has completely different properties plus blood vaporization, plus you'd be leaning into AoE fallacy territories to assume this just means August can't output that level of power normally, because it's also just as possible that August simply doesn't have that kind of range without Ars-Magia.
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Also, although etherion has stated to destroy a country multiple times, every time it’s shown on screen being fired from what we’ve seen, it’s never infact covering an entire country, Ik you can call this an AOE fallacy but that’s not where I’m getting at, it clearly states it can destroy an entire country in one shot, which makes me question the consistency and accuracy of the statement alone, as it is never even covering a country whenever it’s fired... different with feats in other shows, such as dragon ball where vegeta has shown to actually destroy a planet with a ki blast on screen, but not All the time he has, so the AOE fallacy would work on him, as he has shown to destroy an entire planet, while etherion has just stated it multiple times, it makes me question whether Or not it being able to destroy an entire country is consistent or not, since whenever it’s shown being fired it hasn’t. These are just my thoughts rn, if anyone can correct me feel free to do so
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I get what you're trying to say, but this really does lean into the AoE Fallacy because you're denying the numerous statements of it being a country-wiping weapon simply because its area of effect in its hypothetical showings is more condensed.
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- Thread starter
- #93
It is absolutely a case of the AOE Fallacy... Every time Etherion is mentioned, it is stated to hold the power to destroy an entire country in one shot, but the whole point is they condense the area of effect of the blast so that they don't accidentially end up nuking everything... That's literally how Etherion works...
Like now we're just ignoring the 3 statements of country nuking that Etherion has?
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Yeah we're not gonna use this thread as the "etherion downgrade thread".
Etherion isn't stated to have a varying powerlevel. It's stated that things are equal to it, implying that it has its own stagnant power level.
Etherion has a stagnant power level -> Wall's etherion has a power level = to the other one
...
It was fired once outside of Wall's, and it was absorbed before it could cover a country.
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I'm just bringing up issues as I see them. Not trying to downgrade or upgrade here.
Those links aren't working.
We've seen visuals of it being fired though, haven't we?
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Do you know where it is mentioned that the condense the area of effect? I haven't seen that.
The words from the people discussing firing it would seem to suggest otherwise.
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- Thread starter
- #97
No, the one time it was successfully fired in cannon, it was entire absorbed by the Tower of Heaven
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Eclipse Gate
The Eclipse Gate was a Magic Item created and used by combining Celestial Spirit Magic and a certain Magic from the Books of Zeref. It takes the form of a giant gate that enables people to travel through time when the sun and moon intersect in a Solar or Lunar Eclipse. It is made from a super...
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Visuals of it's beam size, not its blast radius. 2 different things
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I think that some of the points in the OP should be crossed out at least because they do not support the consistency of this either way.
This isn't a Magic Power feat. It is depenedent on Gajeel's mass and wouldn't be scalable to the other Spriggans.
As Pain pointed out, this is just a title. It's not indicative of any particular rating.
This isn't a Magic Power feat. It is depenedent on Gajeel's mass and wouldn't be scalable to the other Spriggans.
As Pain pointed out, this is just a title. It's not indicative of any particular rating.
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I find it odd that the AOE fallacy should be considered for this case, since the one time it’s been fired it doesnt destroy a country, yet were putting multiple statements above it? The feat isn’t very consistent with the statements.
the whole defintion of an AOE fallacy should be reworked for statements,
compared to feats for a different thread IMO
the whole defintion of an AOE fallacy should be reworked for statements,
compared to feats for a different thread IMO
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Arslan.
The Blast Radius can envelop a country.
The attack is fired once.
Before the Blast can even start to spread, it is absorbed.
What are you talking about.
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Send the panel
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So Wall was going to wipe out all of Fiore just to take out Laxus?
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Exactly what I mean...
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I actually do agree on this. While I think it adds a little extra support to saying "hey, this is where these guys should be now," I also think it's pretty faulty, especially the "Nation Destroyer" one.
Though I'm still in favor of this proposed scaling regardless of these two points.
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A crippling and weakened laxus infact
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August was gonna wipe out all of Fiore just to take out Gildarts.
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When it was fired, it was absorbed by the Tower of Heaven. Completely different case.
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- Thread starter
- #111
I mean August was as well, so frankly not surprised... Irene also terraformed all of Fiore just to move Zeref closer to Mavis
Also this is a huge AOE Fallacy
Etherion is a cannon that takes a bunch of magic and condenses it into a beam. When Goku fires a Kamehameha or when Kid used his Laser Beam, do we scale them to like Building level? No. We are directly told that Etherion holds the power to destroy an entire country literally every time it's brought up. Etherion being a country destroyer is not in debate or relevant to Wall here at all.
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But that seems like a contradiction. We're told that it is always the same power so it'll always produce a country-enveloping explosion, but you're saying it is condensed so actually there is no other excess damage done at all?
Where is it stated that the resulting explosion is condensed?
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this is a really
good point.
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So are we gonna stop using a partially absorbed technique's dumbed down showing on an island where the only thing shown is it destroying a bunch of water and the top of a building as an antifeat?
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- Thread starter
- #117
Come on Damage, what are you doing man? This is basic stuff... If we are flat out told what the attack will do and the only time we see the attack used on panel, it is absorbed and therefore can't actually explode, we don't need to theorize about what ifs. By condensed beam, I meant the actual beam we see as Etherion is firing down. All that magic power is condensed into a magic beam that would have created a massive explosion if it wasn't absorbed. It is very clear what will happen if Etherion is dropped, countries are destroyed. We don't need to theorize about what Etherion would do if it actually landed when it is flat out said what would happen. It's not some inconsistent statement or anything when the story says it 3 times at 3 different time periods in the story.
Etherion is a country destroying weapon, that is not in debate. Wall can use Etherion, so he would be a country destroyer.
Also here's the Council's Etherion
And here's Wall's Etherion
They are exactly the same
I swear, it's like you're going out of you're way to disagree. I mean we should all know by now that you don't need to actually destroy a country on panel to be country level...
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@DemonGodMitchAubin; even if I accepted that (and I don't really have a major opposition to Etherion being that level, I was just seeing some inconsistent visuals), there's still other parts of the OP I've posted disagreements for that I haven't seen really be addressed yet.
Also that bit from the anime seems to be a major inconsistency from the manga. In the manga, Wall was very clearly going to fire the Etherion from the palm of his hand, not from a satellite position.
Also that bit from the anime seems to be a major inconsistency from the manga. In the manga, Wall was very clearly going to fire the Etherion from the palm of his hand, not from a satellite position.
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- Thread starter
- #119
Oh I can agree some stuff in the OP needs to be removed, I'll cross it out
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Thank you. I'm heading offline for tonight.
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