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Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga

AnimesFreak2 said:
2. Glad I am not the only disappointed that the Jellal/Zeref plotline was dropped. The fact they NEVER EVEN MET AND HAD A COVERSATION honestly pissed me off after all the setup Mashima gave
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In a weird way, this actually fits Jellal's Arc TBH

Jellal's whole thing was blaming Zeref for his sins and the wrongness in the world, so he vowed to defeat him. But Jellal never actually knew anything about Zeref at all. He was completely wrong about Zeref's actions and never even met him. This is emphasized when August tells Jellal that Zeref himself had a son and Jellal is entirely shocked to hear it. And then he's told that believing darkness is evil, is frankly dumb. In the end, Jellal never meets or fights Zeref because he DID never actually know who he was. Jellal was just picking Zeref to be the enemy of everything he's been through, but in the end he realizes that his opponent was never actually Zeref, but just an imaginary figure that Jellal created up to cope. So he gets up and decides that the most important thing to him is not taking down Zeref, but protecting Erza. Which is exactly what he does when he confronts Acnologia. Natsu is the one who was destined to fight Zeref because not only was he deeply connected to him, but unlike Jellal, he was capable of seeing Zeref for what he actually was... Just a regular person who's been suffering in pain.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
I'mma come out and say it, I think I find Gray, Gajeel, Sting, and Rogue more compelling than any of the S-class or Jellal and the like.
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I can understand Gajeel and Gray, but Sting and Rogue?

Laxus, Erza, and Jellal have way better arcs then them imo. Sting had his arc in the GMGs which was good and a mini arc in the Alvarez war so at least he has something, but poor Rogue. He kinda got left behind after the future Rogue stuff and didn't do much in the War arc as well.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
In a weird way, this actually fits Jellal's Arc TBH

Jellal's whole thing was blaming Zeref for his sins and the wrongness in the world, so he vowed to defeat him. But Jellal never actually knew anything about Zeref at all. He was completely wrong about Zeref's actions and never even met him. This is emphasized when August tells Jellal that Zeref himself had a son and Jellal is entirely shocked to hear it. And then he's told that believing darkness is evil, is frankly dumb. In the end, Jellal never meets or fights Zeref because he DID never actually know who he was. Jellal was just picking Zeref to be the enemy of everything he's been through, but in the end he realizes that his opponent was never actually Zeref, but just an imaginary figure that Jellal created up to cope. So he gets up and decides that the most important thing to him is not taking down Zeref, but protecting Erza. Which is exactly what he does when he confronts Acnologia. Natsu is the one who was destined to fight Zeref because not only was he deeply connected to him, but unlike Jellal, he was capable of seeing Zeref for what he actually was... Just a regular person who's been suffering in pain.
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I get what you're trying to get at don't get me wrong

I ain't saying Jellal should've been the one to beat Zeref, hell I ain't even saying they had to fight

Just one conversation between them would have satiated me

Seeing Jellal finally confront what technically ruined his life in the first place but then as u said

What he thought Zeref would be like, was just an image in his head he created and seeing what the black mage was actually like

You can't tell me that wouldn't have not been interesting no?
 
Question, at what point in time did it become obvious scaling wise that Natsu had surpassed Erza under his own power? Like where there was no doubt he was straight up stronger than her.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Question, at what point in time did it become obvious scaling wise that Natsu had surpassed Erza under his own power? Like where there was no doubt he was straight up stronger than her.
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When he could use Dragon force on his own. Outside of that, I don't think Natsu has a clear strength advantage over her.
 
Tohaku said:
When he could use Dragon force on his own. Outside of that, I don't think Natsu has a clear strength advantage over her.
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Current Base Natsu stomps Current Base Erza. FDKM Natsu currently is much stronger than CHC High Enchant Erza due to him performing well against someone of similar caliber to Kirin, who got slightly serious and overwhelmed RDLM Laxus, who is slightly stronger than her.

This may change but for now I'm not sure Natsu even needs DF to win.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Question, at what point in time did it become obvious scaling wise that Natsu had surpassed Erza under his own power? Like where there was no doubt he was straight up stronger than her.
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I think by X791 it was obvious that Natsu no longer had a reason to be comically afraid of her, especially when he showed that he could use Dragon Force at will. X792 and beyond was the nail in the coffin that he'd surpassed her.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Current Base Natsu stomps Current Base Erza. FDKM Natsu currently is much stronger than CHC High Enchant Erza due to him performing well against someone of similar caliber to Kirin, who got slightly serious and overwhelmed RDLM Laxus, who is slightly stronger than her.

This may change but for now I'm not sure Natsu even needs DF to win.
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I don't think there's any showings that support base Natsu stomping Base Erza. And Natsu's performance against Suzaku is attributed mainly to the fact that this is his second time fighting him so he could read his moves and he had time to prepare a defensive technique as well. On the first encounter Natsu got instantly KOed while Erza was at least able to react to Suzaku's slash on her first try. And comparatively Laxus is doing better for his first time against Kirin as he's still standing after the exchange. Also Laxus isn't slightly stronger than Erza. She was able to take the fight to a draw while holding back against him for the majority of the fight and at the end was able to match his red lightning attack with something much weaker than her strongest weapons.
 
Tohaku said:
I don't think there's any showings that support base Natsu stomping Base Erza. And Natsu's performance against Suzaku is attributed mainly to the fact that this is his second time fighting him so he could read his moves and he had time to prepare a defensive technique as well. On the first encounter Natsu got instantly KOed while Erza was at least able to react to Suzaku's slash on her first try. And comparatively Laxus is doing better for his first time against Kirin as he's still standing after the exchange. Also Laxus isn't slightly stronger than Erza. She was able to take the fight to a draw while holding back against him for the majority of the fight and at the end was able to match his red lightning attack with something much weaker than her strongest weapons.
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First battle: Natsu gets KO'ed casually.

Second battle: Natsu takes Suzaku's attacks and then tanks Suzaku's Abyss move that took down human form Selene, despite not knowing about that move.
 
I remember once in the Fairy Tail anime where Erza suggests that she, Natsu, and Gray take a bath together like when they were kids, followed by a blushing Lucy asking "WHAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP DO YOU HAVE?!", which was basically how the fans felt at that moment.
 
PhoenixFirestorm said:
First battle: Natsu gets KO'ed casually.

Second battle: Natsu takes Suzaku's attacks and then tanks Suzaku's Abyss move that took down human form Selene, despite not knowing about that move.
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Even not knowing of the move, he still knew Suzaku's quirks in attacking. And he was able to block the attacks because he prepared a defensive technique beforehand. He was better prepared.
 
Tohaku said:
Even not knowing of the move, he still knew Suzaku's quirks in attacking. And he was able to block the attacks because he prepared a defensive technique beforehand. He was better prepared.
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Still doesn't mean that he is not above Erza like you think. Because like Natsu said, he trains everyday to get stronger.
 
PhoenixFirestorm said:
Still doesn't mean that he is not above Erza like you think. Because like Natsu said, he trains everyday to get stronger.
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That's actually a mistranslation. I'm sure Natsu does train regularly but that's not what he was saying. Suzaku first asks Natsu if he was holding back the first time they encountered each other and Natsu said no (this was mistranslated as Suzaku thinking he has lost his edge.) Then Suzaku says there's no way Natsu could have grown stronger in such a short amount of time. And Natsu agrees with him saying that training in general is an accumulation of daily practice. And that's why Suzaku is still confused about how his performance is better until Natsu explains that he is reading his movements.
 
Tohaku said:
That's actually a mistranslation. I'm sure Natsu does train regularly but that's not what he was saying. Suzaku first asks Natsu if he was holding back the first time they encountered each other and Natsu said no (this was mistranslated as Suzaku thinking he has lost his edge.) Then Suzaku says there's no way Natsu could have grown stronger in such a short amount of time. And Natsu agrees with him saying that training in general is an accumulation of daily practice. And that's why Suzaku is still confused about how his performance is better until Natsu explains that he is reading his movements.
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Like I said, it still proves Natsu is actually still above Erza in terms of AP. Doesn't matter if prep or not. He still fought himself with his own power.
 
PhoenixFirestorm said:
Like I said, it still proves Natsu is actually still above Erza in terms of AP. Doesn't matter if prep or not. He still fought himself with his own power.
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What AP feat did Natsu show in that fight that says he's above Erza in that mode? And again the difference in performance has nothing to do with attack power. Natsu wasn't even able to attack Suzaku the last time.
 
Tohaku said:
What AP feat did Natsu show in that fight that says he's above Erza in that mode? And again the difference in performance has nothing to do with attack power. Natsu wasn't even able to attack Suzaku the last time.
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I believe we already covered this on another thread beforehand. I will probably leave this to the guys here to explain it to you.
 
Guys, while Natsu is doing extremely well compared to Erza right now, I guarantee she’ll get the same level of feats when she whoops Misaki’s ass
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Guys, while Natsu is doing extremely well compared to Erza right now, I guarantee she’ll get the same level of feats when she whoops Misaki’s ass
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That's a given. And I'm pretty sure Laxus will win against Kirin. That's just how this shit works dude.

Even then, if she has to use CHC or one of her strongest armors, base Natsu will still be superior to base Erza
 
Just rewatched Natsu vs Gildarts to see if I have warmed up to it yet, holy shit does everything about that frustrate me. Even weirder, I'm like the only one who doesn't like that fight or the lesson it tried to push.
 
Eseseso said:
I like the lesson. The fight? Meh.
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The lesson is fine, certain parts are self defeating as hell, but that's just because of the wording. The 'fear is fine and natural' angle is okay, the 'giving into fear and backing down will make you stronger and wiser' isn't and just like straight up isn't true. There's a difference between knowing your limits and letting them control you.

The whole thing on the philosophical front is just straight up sloppy imo.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
The lesson is fine, certain parts are self defeating as hell, but that's just because of the wording. The 'fear is fine and natural' angle is okay, the 'giving into fear and backing down will make you stronger and wiser' isn't and just like straight up isn't true. There's a difference between knowing your limits and letting them control you.

The whole thing on the philosophical front is just straight up sloppy imo.
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Mate you're completely misunderstanding the lesson... Gildarts doesn't say backing down and being afraid makes someone stronger. He says that it's brave to admit that you're afraid and be cautious. And that beig afraid is not bad, because knowing your own weaknesses allows you to overcome them and become stronger and wiser.

It's about acknowledging your own fears and weaknesses and overcoming them, he never says "Give in to fear" at all...
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Mate you're completely misunderstanding the lesson... Gildarts doesn't say backing down and being afraid makes someone stronger. He says that it's brave to admit that you're afraid and be cautious. And that beig afraid is not bad, because knowing your own weaknesses allows you to overcome them and become stronger and wiser.

It's about acknowledging your own fears and weaknesses and overcoming them, he never says "Give in to fear" at all...
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I know, I ready said that part is fine, it's just how it was used as justification for Natsu backing down that seems counter intuitive and almost self defeating. Gildarts praises Natsu for backing down, and I don't think that should really be encouraged, him encouraging that is the biggest problem, that's what I meant before. Feeling fear and letting it control you are two entirely different things.

The lesson is literally half baked, as knowing your limits means nothing if you can't push them. Gildarts doesn't say anything about pushing through fear, and lets Natsu pass. It's so unsatisfying imo

Thankfully Natsu quickly regains the trait to keep moving and stand back up and never accept defeat, the one he threw away, and stood up despite feeling fear. But that was already in character for him, to keep moving, to keep fighting despite being aware he was weaker, so what the hell was the lesson for in the first place?

The way I interpreted Natsu's character made it so it barely connected with the lesson at all. The lesson didn't apply to him in any meaningful way for me.

Natsu is constantly reminded of his limits and shortcomings by other characters, he was never that high on a pedestal to begin with given how he is treated by both his enemies and his friends. So he was aware of his weaknesses, he just never let it stop him. Until now.

Natsu threw away one of his defining character traits, the ability to keep moving in spite of obstacles, in spite of his own limits, for the sake of a lesson he didn't need.

If Natsu looked back on him surrendering as a mistake and then heeded Gildarts advice about fear, then I would be fine with it.

If we got a rematch with Natsu telling Gildarts about how important pushing past fear is, I would be fine with it.

But we don't get any of that. That is all we get. The lesson itself was fine, it's implementation was not.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
I know, I ready said that part is fine, it's just how it was used as justification for Natsu backing down that seems counter intuitive and almost self defeating. Gildarts praises Natsu for backing down, and I don't think that should really be encouraged, him encouraging that is the biggest problem, that's what I meant before. Feeling fear and letting it control you are two entirely different things.

The lesson is literally half baked, as knowing your limits means nothing if you can't push them. Gildarts doesn't say anything about pushing through fear, and lets Natsu pass. It's so unsatisfying imo

Thankfully Natsu quickly regains the trait to keep moving and stand back up and never accept defeat, the one he threw away, and stood up despite feeling fear. But that was already in character for him, to keep moving, to keep fighting despite being aware he was weaker, so what the hell was the lesson for in the first place?

The way I interpreted Natsu's character made it so it barely connected with the lesson at all. The lesson didn't apply to him in any meaningful way for me.

Natsu is constantly reminded of his limits and shortcomings by other characters, he was never that high on a pedestal to begin with given how he is treated by both his enemies and his friends. So he was aware of his weaknesses, he just never let it stop him. Until now.

Natsu threw away one of his defining character traits, the ability to keep moving in spite of obstacles, in spite of his own limits, for the sake of a lesson he didn't need.

If Natsu looked back on him surrendering as a mistake and then heeded Gildarts advice about fear, then I would be fine with it.
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The whole message is literally "It's ok to be afraid", that's all

Why do you dislike that so much? Natsu recklessly pushing forward with no thought or caution is on one hand a strength, he flat out says this to Natsu, but Gildarts was just telling Natsu it's also brave to know that sometimes you're outmatched and can't win just by blindly charging forward, which Natsu takes to heart for the rest of the series, as he begins to rely more on others and be more cautious about how he approaches situations. Now obviously Natsu still continues to press forward and charge in when he wants to, that's ok, Gildarts never said that was an incorrect action, just said there's a different way to approach things

I think that's a very good message, taking a step back to consider your fears and situation is a very important life lesson
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
The whole message is literally "It's ok to be afraid", that's all

Why do you dislike that so much? Natsu recklessly pushing forward with no thought or caution is on one hand a strength, he flat out says this to Natsu, but Gildarts was just telling Natsu it's also brave to know that sometimes you're outmatched and can't win just by blindly charging forward, which Natsu takes to heart for the rest of the series, as he begins to rely more on others and be more cautious about how he approaches situations. Now obviously Natsu still continues to press forward and charge in when he wants to, that's ok, Gildarts never said that was an incorrect action, just said there's a different way to approach things

I think that's a very good message, taking a step back to consider your fears and situation is a very important life lesson
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Mitch my son, I already told you, the lesson is fine. It's implementation and lack of future use was shoddy.

I would forgive the further kicking of the already down Natsu and how unnecessary it was if we got a rematch, if we got Natsu's own input and opinion rather than him blindly accept the platitude and advice, if we see Natsu get flashbacks to him surrendering and him swearing to never do it again, knowing he can't if his family is on the line. That is infinitely more in line with his character than what we got.

The lack of follow up is what frustrates me the most, we don't get a rematch, no redemption for Natsu for throwing away what makes him, him. No him telling Gildarts his response to his lesson. All of the changes the lesson supposedly inspired we're already in character for him to begin with.
 
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Just curious, between X791 Base Natsu and X784 LFDM/DF Natsu (since X784 Natsu's DF was stated to be comparable to his LFDM in power), which one is stronger by scaling?

I know X791 Base Natsu scales to a slightly higher calc, but scaling wise which one would be stronger?
 
Eseseso said:
Just curious, between X791 Base Natsu and X784 LFDM/DF Natsu (since X784 Natsu's DF was stated to be comparable to his LFDM in power), which one is stronger by scaling?

I know X791 Base Natsu scales to a slightly higher calc, but scaling wise which one would be stronger?
Click to expand...
X784 LFDM Natsu, who stomped Base Hades
 
Eseseso said:
Ah, so since Base Hades = Hades Franmalth = Silver = Base Natsu, LFDM is above that.

Thanks for the clarification. Been bugging me for a while so glad to get a good answer.
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yeah cause weirdly enough

The amp Natsu's LFDM got from Tenrou Blessing was WAY bigger than 2nd Origin amp lmao
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
yeah cause weirdly enough

The amp Natsu's LFDM got from Tenrou Blessing was WAY bigger than 2nd Origin amp lmao
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Well nah, I meant before that, when LFDM was just beating the shit out of Base Hades

The Tenrou Tree being reformed just returned their magic power
 
Btw, I noticed another creepy moment in Fairy Tail.

The way Cosmos acts towards Wendy (who is 13 as of X791) is so f*cking creepy.

Calling her beautiful, touching her face, saying that she "loves" Wendy...Ugh.
 
I forgot

Doesn't this one shot about Erza and meeting Biscka back when she was a rogue take place post GMG?

fairytail.fandom.com

She's Erza!!

She's Erza!! is an omake of Fairy Tail by Hiro Mashima. Heading to a bar to play pool, Erza has an encounter with a thief using the Fairy Tail name to send fear through the townspeople. Enraged, Erza confronts the woman and gives her a heavy beating, though, coming to understand the woman's...
fairytail.fandom.com fairytail.fandom.com
 
Was it ever stated how much Jellal was nerfed by his thought projection pre time skip?

Like what amount of power he was restricted to?

30%

50%

?
 
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