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Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga

In the hades fight he was met with an even more dominating aura but managed to stand up against because of what he experienced with gildarts. Difference is with gildarts it was friendly, with hades it was life or death. So natsu gets his strength from those he needs to protect so although they were all terrified of devil eye hades natsu was able to stand again and fight. Gildarts was recklessness and ego hades it was a life or death situation so there's not reason to be sobbing on your knees he was gunna kill them anyway. He had no reason to fight Gildarts seriously but hades he had to or everyone died. Granted hades would of washed him anyway but cats came in clutch. In a way you can suppose gildarts was showing him what someone stronger than you and with malicious intent looks like. But hades would of killed them. That's the difference in that situation you gotta fight anyway. Agasint gildarts whom is your ally no
 
or quite simply it was all about natsu normally vs natsu with friends around. He was scared to strike gildarts but managed to stand back up against hades. It may of helped him in future fights like mard geer, spriggan etc
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
In the hades fight he was met with an even more dominating aura but managed to stand up against because of what he experienced with gildarts. Difference is with gildarts it was friendly, with hades it was life or death. So natsu gets his strength from those he needs to protect so although they were all terrified of devil eye hades natsu was able to stand again and fight. Gildarts was recklessness and ego hades it was a life or death situation so there's not reason to be sobbing on your knees he was gunna kill them anyway. He had no reason to fight Gildarts seriously but hades he had to or everyone died. Granted hades would of washed him anyway but cats came in clutch. In a way you can suppose gildarts was showing him what someone stronger than you and with malicious intent looks like. But hades would of killed them. That's the difference in that situation you gotta fight anyway. Agasint gildarts whom is your ally no
Click to expand...
Jellal and Zero, both people who started out stronger than Natsu, and had very malicious intent, he wasn't afraid to go 'square up pussy' to either of them. Natsu standing up to Hades is in character for him with or without Gildarts' 'lesson'. And at this time, Natsu was still under the belief becoming S-class was important, so he was taking Gildarts very seriously.

Granted its obvious Gramps is gatekeeping **** who decides to play patty cake with Natsu and a cliffside because he's to lazy to do some paperwork so that his 'children' who just risked their lives protecting the guild can be rewarded the title they most certainly deserve. Nowadays S-class is more or less an empty title to Natsu given he is stronger than all of them combined when he goes sicko mode.
 
True tho their is a difference with those two and jellal or zeno. But yea he is a square up person. I don't hate it cause I'm like that too. I would slap superman
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Jellal and Zero, both people who started out stronger than Natsu, and had very malicious intent, he wasn't afraid to go 'square up pussy' to either of them. Natsu standing up to Hades is in character for him with or without Gildarts' 'lesson'. And at this time, Natsu was still under the belief becoming S-class was important, so he was taking Gildarts very seriously.

Granted its obvious Gramps is gatekeeping **** who decides to play patty cake with Natsu and a cliffside because he's to lazy to do some paperwork so that his 'children' who just risked their lives protecting the guild can be rewarded the title they most certainly deserve. Nowadays S-class is more or less an empty title to Natsu given he is stronger than all of them combined when he goes sicko mode.
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Gecko Mode😭
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
This sounds super shallow, I know, and him becoming human makes sense, if a little safe, but I would have liked Natsu to have chosen the Dragon seed, I just find the possibilities of that more interesting. One of the main themes of the final Acnologia fight was that not all dragons were bad, that they vary, just like people. Yet the series treats Acnologia and Irene becoming dragons as bad things but fail to understand the context of their respective circumstances.

I saw Natsu choosing neither coming from a mile away, and while yeah it seems deep to have Natsu lose everything that makes him special, which in turn makes him special, throwing away the END story line to do it, and blatantly ignoring the final message of dragons not being bad so we could get 'he is stepping into his own' didn't feel like a fair trade off.

Tldr; Natsu choosing to be human isn't bad, just what we gave up for us to get there will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. This is just personal opinion though, nothing more than wishful thinking.
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The whole point is that in spite of wielding the power of a Dragon and being reborn as a Demon, Natsu chooses to hold on to his Humanity and continue to live as a Human, something Acnologia clearly didn't. Acnologia abandoned his name and humanity to become what he was, being the Dragon King. Irene becoming a Dragon ruined her life and robbed her of being able to feel anything. And Igneel never wanted Natsu to become a Dragon.

If anything, him becoming a Dragon would have butchered his character arc and made him no different from Acnologia
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Natsu wasn't really on that high of pedestal to begin with. It was kicking down for the sake of a bumper stick slogan lesson that goes against who Natsu is. Even Master Makarov tries enforce this complacency in the very next fight, and thankfully Natsu seems to have realized giving into fear will not help him grow despite what Gildarts said and fights anyway.
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Gildarts never said "give into fear", what he said was that fear is not evil and that it allows someone to grow stronger and kinder as a result by being able to view their own weaknesses and confront them. He basically said, it's ok to be afraid sometimes, there's benefit to that.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
The whole point is that in spite of wielding the power of a Dragon and being reborn as a Demon, Natsu chooses to hold on to his Humanity and continue to live as a Human, something Acnologia clearly didn't. Acnologia abandoned his name and humanity to become what he was, being the Dragon King. Irene becoming a Dragon ruined her life and robbed her of being able to feel anything. And Igneel never wanted Natsu to become a Dragon.

If anything, him becoming a Dragon would have butchered his character arc and made him no different from Acnologia

Gildarts never said "give into fear", what he said was that fear is not evil and that it allows someone to grow stronger and kinder as a result by being able to view their own weaknesses and confront them. He basically said, it's ok to be afraid sometimes, there's benefit to that.
Click to expand...
Except the entire existence of Igneel completely discredits the link between being a dragon and lacking humanity. They even gave a speech about no one had his power, nor his compassion.

Acnologia has wildly different circumstances, he had no one but his own rage and anguish, so of course he turns bitter and cold, the same with Irene. Once again, one of the entire messages of the last Acnologia fight was that Dragons vary, just like people. Its contradictory in my opinion for the show to herald Igneel's compassion, then completely ignore it and act as if only humans have it. Saying Natsu turning into a dragon would make him no different than Acnologia in my mind completely ignores the circumstances and experiences each individual went through. One is surrounded by people Natsu is willing to die fighting for, the other alone with nothing but the dust and echoes of what he once loved. I get Igneel didn't want him to become a dragon, but there are good dragons, there are bad dragons, just like humans.

There is no need for a big argument, I'm just sorta shooting the breeze. I don't think Natsu choosing the dragon seed would butcher anything, just take him in a different direction.

Gildarts explicitly said there is no shame in letting fear 're-sheath' your blades, which will true to some extent, there is no harm in being afraid, doesn't apply to Natsu just because he doesn't hesitate to throw himself at strong opponents. The biggest flaw is how that is used as justification and reassurance for Natsu, when it shouldn't be. Yes, there is no shame in being afraid, but a better lesson would be that fears you don't face become your limits. Natsu didn't face his fear, he surrendered, flying in the face of everything he had done so far for the sake of a lesson he didn't need. Natsu is well aware of his limitations, he just choses not to let them control him. In that scene, he let fear control him, and personally, that just doesn't feel like Natsu to me. To each their own though.

Basically, the lesson itself is fine, but how it applies to Natsu and its presentation needed a lot of work. I personally would have had Natsu gotten back up and tell Gildarts that feeling fear is fine, letting it control you isn't.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Except the entire existence of Igneel completely discredits the link between being a dragon and lacking humanity. They even gave a speech about no one had his power, nor his compassion.

Acnologia has wildly different circumstances, he had no one but his own rage and anguish, so of course he turns bitter and cold, the same with Irene. Once again, one of the entire messages of the last Acnologia fight was that Dragons vary, just like people. Its contradictory in my opinion for the show to herald Igneel's compassion, then completely ignore it and act as if only humans have it. Saying Natsu turning into a dragon would make him no different than Acnologia in my mind completely ignores the circumstances and experiences each individual went through. One is surrounded by people Natsu is willing to die fighting for, the other alone with nothing but the dust and echoes of what he once loved. I get Igneel didn't want him to become a dragon, but there are good dragons, there are bad dragons, just like humans.

There is no need for a big argument, I'm just sorta shooting the breeze. I don't think Natsu choosing the dragon seed would butcher anything, just take him in a different direction.
Click to expand...
You're funamentally missing the point, it's not that being a Dragon is bad, it's when a Human transforms into a Dragon that it's bad

Igneel is a normal Dragon who was born a Dragon, no issues there. The difference is when Humans become Dragons, they literally lose their minds and ability to use their senses. Killing so many Dragons literally made Acnologia forget who he even was, and once you become a Dragon, you never really regain your Human self, you can take the appearance of a Human, but it's not the real thing. Natsu wouldn't be like Igneel if he became a Dragon, he would be like Acnologia and Irene, who'd suffer mind pains, memory loss, and loss of senses, it would very much be a bad thing and the antithesis of everything the series has set up

It would absolutely butcher Natsu's character arc and the arc of the story for him to do that
 
Alright let's try to do a tier list instead of a top strongest list



Supreme God tier: Natsu seven flame dragon


Omega God tier: acnologia EOS


God Tier: Dragon Acnologia, Dragon Gods full dragon


Super Top tier: Suzaku, Kirin, DF Wendy, Haku, Selene human form, human acnologia, Misaki, Gildarts (Current), Red lightning laxus, Erza fire and ice swords, Jellal (current)

Top tier: Zeref, DF natsu, natsu igneel tattoo

Super High Tier: full power August and Irene (spriggan arc), Gildarts, Red lightning laxus (spriggan arc)?

High tier: Erza top armors (spriggan arc), Mirajane alegria, larcade, Sting white shadow df, Dimaria God soul, Third origin Sherria, Laxus (spriggan arc), Jellal (spriggan arc), Skullion raider, Madmole, Kyria, Spider guy, natsu blaze dragon king mode (spriggan arc), Angry devil slayer gray, Satan soul mirajane (current), probably a stretch but large Brandish? I know her size alteration can affect strength as seen with gajeel

Mid-High: God Serena, Invel, Satan soul sitri, Satan soul mirajane (spriggan arc), Base natsu, Gray ice devil slayer (spriggan arc), Brandish (spriggan arc)


Chore but most agree with that?
 
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Didnt know about Base Irene and August so either in high tier unless one of their own is necessary. Prkblem is laxus and jellal are portrayed as equals even before red lightning so I gave laxus the edge in spriggan arc

Not ordered btw as in greatest to least
 
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DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You're funamentally missing the point, it's not that being a Dragon is bad, it's when a Human transforms into a Dragon that it's bad

Igneel is a normal Dragon who was born a Dragon, no issues there. The difference is when Humans become Dragons, they literally lose their minds and ability to use their senses. Killing so many Dragons literally made Acnologia forget who he even was, and once you become a Dragon, you never really regain your Human self, you can take the appearance of a Human, but it's not the real thing. Natsu wouldn't be like Igneel if he became a Dragon, he would be like Acnologia and Irene, who'd suffer mind pains, memory loss, and loss of senses, it would very much be a bad thing and the antithesis of everything the series has set up

It would absolutely butcher Natsu's character arc and the arc of the story for him to do that
Click to expand...
Your painting was too broad of a brush. You furthering my point about their circumstances, Acnologia became a dragon by killing dragons, Natsu would've become a dragon because he was growing stronger. And who's to say Natsu wouldn't have been able to break the cycle, to be the exception due to his strength of character. Him ending a cycle of giving in to hate is something I can see him doing.

I don't have strong legs to stand on I know, because your talking about what happened, I'm talking about what could have been. Saying Natsu isn't Natsu because he chose to be one thing rather than other is simply something I don't agree with.

I wasn't saying this is how it should have gone, I'm not saying it would have been better or worse, I'm just saying I think a good story could have come from it.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Alright let's try to do a tier list instead of a top strongest list



Supreme God tier: Natsu savage dragon fire


Omega God tier: acnologia EOS
Click to expand...
Nope.

1. Human-form Post-RoSAT Acno defeated a Savage Dragon Fire Natsu who had a 2x amp.

2. Dragon Form Post-RoSAT Acno is confirmed to be above Seven Fire Dragon Natsu, who is 4x above Savage RoSAT Natsu
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Alright let's try to do a tier list instead of a top strongest list



Supreme God tier: Natsu savage dragon fire


Omega God tier: acnologia EOS


God Tier: Dragon Acnologia, Dragon Gods full dragon


Super Top tier: Suzaku, Kirin, DF Wendy, Haku, Selene human form, human acnologia, Misaki, Gildarts (Current), Red lightning laxus, Erza fire and ice swords, Jellal (current)

Top tier: Zeref, DF natsu, natsu igneel tattoo

Super High Tier: full power August and Irene (spriggan arc), Gildarts, Red lightning laxus (spriggan arc)?

High tier: Erza top armors (spriggan arc), Mirajane alegria, larcade, Sting white shadow df, Dimaria God soul, Third origin Sherria, Laxus (spriggan arc), Jellal (spriggan arc), Skullion raider, Madmole, Kyria, Spider guy, natsu blaze dragon king mode (spriggan arc), Angry devil slayer gray, Satan soul mirajane (current), probably a stretch but large Brandish? I know her size alteration can affect strength as seen with gajeel

Mid-High: God Serena, Invel, Satan soul sitri, Satan soul mirajane (spriggan arc), Base natsu, Gray ice devil slayer (spriggan arc), Brandish (spriggan arc)


Chore but most agree with that?
Click to expand...
Why is DF Natsu so low? Have you read the profile? I don't wanna be rude, but this ain't r/FairyTail where we downplay the shit out of Natsu. DF Natsu is the strongest in the guild and it isn't even close.
 
Wym? Its the one from the spriggan arc. New one would be above suzaku etc. Zeref wasn't even convinced it would do him in. In fact it didn't do anything but blow away his magic. Which igneel tattoo also did. And igneel tattoo has blaze dragon king mode on top of it.
 
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idk what u call the natsu that one shotted acnologia that's what I was referring to cause I remember ppl calling it two different things when it came out. But seven fire is it. So ill edit that bit
 
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Acnologia is stated to be the strongest character in the original series, so he would be #1, Seven Fire Dragons Mode Natsu is still right after, he did one-tap Post-SBT Acnologia, even if he was frozen in place
 
What about the lower tiers ik some spots are questionable but I think it's mostly accurate. I really do wonder if tall brandish is higher than her standard spriggan tier like dimaria in God soul. That part is more so head Canon but I think it makes sense considering what it did for gajeel so my headcanon is brandish making herself huge is bumped up one tier but eh. But again just head canon
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Alright let's try to do a tier list instead of a top strongest list



Supreme God tier: Natsu seven flame dragon
Click to expand...
He's #2
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Omega God tier: acnologia EOS
Click to expand...
He's #1
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
God Tier: Dragon Acnologia, Dragon Gods full dragon
Click to expand...
Acceptable, but FH Zeref and SDFF Natsu would be here as well if not right below
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Super Top tier: Suzaku, Kirin, DF Wendy, Haku, Selene human form, human acnologia, Misaki, Gildarts (Current), Red lightning laxus, Erza fire and ice swords, Jellal (current)
Click to expand...
Accurate
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Top tier: Zeref, DF natsu, natsu igneel tattoo
Click to expand...
If we talking X792 DF Natsu, then yeah, the rest is fine
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Super High Tier: full power August and Irene (spriggan arc), Gildarts, Red lightning laxus (spriggan arc)?
Click to expand...
More or less good, Red Lightning Laxus is sadly mostly featless outside of one-shotting one of the stronger average Spriggans, but I could see how he would place here
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
High tier: Erza top armors (spriggan arc), Mirajane alegria, larcade, Sting white shadow df, Dimaria God soul, Third origin Sherria, Laxus (spriggan arc), Jellal (spriggan arc), Skullion raider, Madmole, Kyria, Spider guy, natsu blaze dragon king mode (spriggan arc), Angry devil slayer gray, Satan soul mirajane (current), probably a stretch but large Brandish? I know her size alteration can affect strength as seen with gajeel
Click to expand...
This is acceptable, theoretically Brandish should be High 6-A if she ever actually did get as big as Gajeel did
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Mid-High: God Serena, Invel, Satan soul sitri, Satan soul mirajane (spriggan arc), Base natsu, Gray ice devil slayer (spriggan arc), Brandish (spriggan arc)
Click to expand...
Yep, this looks good

Overall this is solid
 
That would be wacky if she could even though I like brandish. So she can buff someone to a massive size, or herself but her magic does not work on those far stronger than her. But not everything that size will be high 6-A. Example happy wouldn't most likely. But those on base natsu tier seems like. A very weird specific scenario but brandish is kinda broken
 
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I kinda have FT rankings like this ( not in order from left to right )

God Tiers: Acnologia, Zeref, Natsu, Dragon Gods, Black Dragon Knights, George, Phoenix, Eclipse Celestial Spirit King, Igneel, Elesferia, Alta Face, Current Wendy I guess, Dragon Cry Animus,

Top Tiers: Spriggan 12, Normal Diablos Members, Most of the Current FT Guild it seems lmao, Gods of Ishgar, Moonlit Beauty goddesses, Alvarez Soldiers

High Tiers: Eclipse Dragons, Normal Wizard Saints, Tartoros, Hades, Zero

Mid Tiers: Pre Time Skip A-S Class Mages

Low Tiers: Average Mages and Fodders like BOS Lucy, Max, Wendy,and stuff

^Not perfect lost but that's the basic idea of what I mean. Hope it makes sense, also obviously left a lot of people out but you can get a general idea of where they should go
 
There's too big a difference of the the chars u listed example larcade can one shot a spriggan tier. But God soul dimaria can as well. As can certain forms of certain characters basically you need to be very specific with tiering as 12 spriggans can't be lumped up together as God soul dimaria would god stomp anyone not larcade or Irene and august. Basically I think it needs to be more strict to work as u cant lump up spriggan and dragon eaters
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Shameless plug for me and DragonGamer’s fanfic

Fate/Burning Will
Click to expand...

The story's competent, and comprehensible, which already makes it better than 90% of fanfiction. It's a little impersonal writing wise, nothing descriptive, nothing to latch onto, everything feels so neutral when everything is so vague. However, this is a strength in certain scenes, and works against it in others. Plot wise, I don't understand fate in the least so I don't have anything to say about that, but why did Natsu not want to go home in the slightest? He just gets dumped into a different world and goes 'aight bet', other than that everything's perfectly fine. The fight scenes are once again a little bland, but never over stay their welcome and are easy to follow along. Which is a huge accomplishment because books are the worst medium for fight scenes. The interactions are well written, and while the story isn't anything to write home about, the plot is mad interesting, Natsu's perfectly in character and never becomes too much of a caricature so poggers.

It just needs a bit more flavor if that makes any sense, and you got yourself a banger.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
There's too big a difference of the the chars u listed example larcade can one shot a spriggan tier. But God soul dimaria can as well. As can certain forms of certain characters basically you need to be very specific with tiering as 12 spriggans can't be lumped up together as God soul dimaria would god stomp anyone not larcade or Irene and august. Basically I think it needs to be more strict to work as u cant lump up spriggan and dragon eaters
Click to expand...
Well I mean, FT has shown that while you can have a similar rank to someone doesn't necessarily mean you are their equal

Examples:

- Brandish and Dimaria are both Spriggans but Base Dimaria straight up one shot her ( showing a huge difference in levels between certain Spriggans )

- Atlas Flame and X791 Jura are both High Tiers but Atlas Flame was low diffing him and everyone else just like the other Eclipse Dragons

- Base Zeref and Igneel are both God Tiers but a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Igneel's power was enough to give Natsu to overpower and kill Base Zeref

Etc

Does that make sense what I said?
 
a tier list imo should be the ppl in the same category should be able to contend with each other thats why I separate dimaria and larcade from typical spriggan so it doesn't give the opinion they are comparable
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
a tier list imo should be the ppl in the same category should be able to contend with each other thats why I separate dimaria and larcade from typical spriggan so it doesn't give the opinion they are comparable
Click to expand...
Meh like I said there can be huge gaps in tier lists

I was just giving basic rundown

If u want then you do you and separate each tier by sub tiers

So instead of just "High Tier" or "God Tier" you can do "Low God Tiers" "Mid Top Tier" etc
 
Question..........so

We gave Natsu Time Stop Resistance because of END moving in Dimaria Time Stop.....but I am so confused on something........let's look at this scan

EP2PEAHU4AAxew1.jpg:large


And the wording she uses:

How could he have MORE POWER than a God...?

Which kinda implies it was simply a power thing ( like how Brandish's hax can be negged by just being stronger than her )

But then Mashima through Mira via the Question Corner says this:

image0.jpg


Lucy: "Hold on a minute! How could he have moved in stopped time?

Mira: Maybe it's a power he got from being E.N.D or something like that?

So it seems he's implying END simply gives Natsu resistance but the way it's worded makes it seem like Mira not even sure

And you could argue Mashima isn't Mira in this case as we've seen be his own character before in these things

image0.jpg

which conflicts with Dimaria’s words despite Dimaria knowing her powers and it’s limits as again Mira isn’t sure and not really a reliable source. The reason I say it isn’t Mashima talking through Mira is because in two of those end of volume interviews we see Mashima himself talk and Mira, Lucy and him are all separate speakers this means Mira is really just Mira here and not Mashima

But then when you also look at Dimaria's words she states

Dimaria: Only END could....

Which implies only END surpasses her power but we know that's complete BS

Any God Tier>>>Dimaria

And even amongst Top Tiers currently

August, Irene, Larcade, Serena, Current S Class, Gray Diablos and a few others>>>>>>>>Dimaria in power

So what are we supposed to believe?

Here's what I am taking from this

That Dimaria's hax while needing some resistance can also just be broken by a certain amount of raw power ( though it takes a shit ton )

So basically END has resistance+just way too strong for Dimaria to Time Stop ( so a similar weakness to Brandish's hax )

Does anyone else agree with me? Disagree?

Please let me know, I am willing to listen to discussion and if anyone can clear this up for me
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
Question..........so

We gave Natsu Time Stop Resistance because of END moving in Dimaria Time Stop.....but I am so confused on something........let's look at this scan

EP2PEAHU4AAxew1.jpg:large


And the wording she uses:

How could he have MORE POWER than a God...?

Which kinda implies it was simply a power thing ( like how Brandish's hax can be negged by just being stronger than her )

But then Mashima through Mira via the Question Corner says this:

image0.jpg


Lucy: "Hold on a minute! How could he have moved in stopped time?

Mira: Maybe it's a power he got from being E.N.D or something like that?

So it seems he's implying END simply gives Natsu resistance but the way it's worded makes it seem like Mira not even sure

And you could argue Mashima isn't Mira in this case as we've seen be his own character before in these things

image0.jpg

which conflicts with Dimaria’s words despite Dimaria knowing her powers and it’s limits as again Mira isn’t sure and not really a reliable source. The reason I say it isn’t Mashima talking through Mira is because in two of those end of volume interviews we see Mashima himself talk and Mira, Lucy and him are all separate speakers this means Mira is really just Mira here and not Mashima

But then when you also look at Dimaria's words she states

Dimaria: Only END could....

Which implies only END surpasses her power but we know that's complete BS

Any God Tier>>>Dimaria

And even amongst Top Tiers currently

August, Irene, Larcade, Serena, Current S Class, Gray Diablos and a few others>>>>>>>>Dimaria in power

So what are we supposed to believe?

Here's what I am taking from this

That Dimaria's hax while needing some resistance can also just be broken by a certain amount of raw power ( though it takes a shit ton )

So basically END has resistance+just way too strong for Dimaria to Time Stop ( so a similar weakness to Brandish's hax )

Does anyone else agree with me? Disagree?

Please let me know, I am willing to listen to discussion and if anyone can clear this up for me
Click to expand...
I mean yeah, raw power in Fairy Tail can neg hax, that's just the way the verse works
 
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