- 3,707
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It's 15% faster in the photo then.
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Equal Stats Tournament 2022: Messenger Nia vs Super Monkey
- Thread starter DemonicDude
- Start date
- 1,712
- 251
This somewhat makes me wish I had picked the engineer monkey since it also has summons with pretty similar abilities. So how do the Mugann compare to Nia herself?
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 8,006
- 4,550
Just a question, are all the abilities of Super Monkey homing attacks? Also, I assume the plasma shit doesn't one shot?
- 2,765
- 398
They're stronger than her
- 10,001
- 6,355
- Thread starter
- #48
AP, Dura and Speed are only equal and since these two uses summons those would be equal too.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,438
- 4,342
Wouldn't the VTSG absorb her upon being formed? Unless it is already present by the time of the battle in which case this is irrelevant
But I'm pretty sure that since both characters appear in the battlefield the moment the battle starts, it'd probably act like an Insta-VTSG, so it will absorb everything that is in range, so she'd likely get absorbed
But I'm pretty sure that since both characters appear in the battlefield the moment the battle starts, it'd probably act like an Insta-VTSG, so it will absorb everything that is in range, so she'd likely get absorbed
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But the summons are entirely different entities
If it's instantaneous wouldn't that be stomp?
- 1,712
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it was established in the tourney thread that VTSG is assumed to have been placed on the field first to avoid this
- 1,712
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Would you have chosen a different character had you known that the summons would be equalized too? Because if not, then we should just carry on
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,438
- 4,342
I guess it would, unless the other character resist both absorption and death manip
- 2,765
- 398
No, I just want to put Nia in more matches.
Anyways, there are insanely large amounts of Mugann that can be summoned: normal ones, upper class versions of them, and two that are far larger than even the largest mountains irl, to which those two can even combine, and can split into multiple fragments and reform
- 10,001
- 6,355
- Thread starter
- #55
Summons can be far superior in skill, range, multiple haxes, stronger in Ls etc. However when it comes to actual AP and dura it's equal, Also characters would not be replaced unless extremely necessary I think we should carry on.
- 1,712
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so would Nia just summon an army and then peace out to another universe?
- 2,765
- 398
She'd either do that (assuming from episode 17) or be in a different part of the battlefield (assuming from episode 22)
There used to be a page for them, but it was deleted I think. They are listed on the verse page
Here's a compilation of what Mugann are capable of
Mugann deconstruct into countless explosive fragments when their energy shield goes down, but the energy shield was shown to need more power than it can handle, to break through. This is backed up by the next video, which shows Simon (Gurren Lagann), being unscathed after getting shot by a Mugann's beam, not being able to break through the shield. They can come in thousands, even with larger Mugann which are larger than Arch-Gurren being 5 kilometers tall. These larger Mugann are capable of reforming, even when blown up into many pieces
Oh yeah, in all this, Nia's in the moon, like inside
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,199
- 5,415
I don't mean to be rude but having knowledge and successfully applying it is different.
- 2,765
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In the prison, Nia easily defeated Viral in a fist fight. Viral is a trained soldier of Lordgenome's Army, and was even an elite solder, having his own custom Gunmen, which are given to top-notch soldiers. Viral was even capable of fighting equally with Simon, who was stated to become quite proficient in martial arts within 3 years. So ofc she doesn't just have the knowledge, she's also capable of successfully applying it
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yes
- 1,712
- 251
it looks like its time for a pokemon battle! lol
In character, the Sun God would probably try to take out all the Mugann one at a time probably going from strongest to weakest, if not by AP/dura then by ability assuming there's any variation at all. Probably more importantly though is the avatars which will target similarly but since their base stats are equalized, that would actually make them the strongest things on the battlefield by a pretty significant margin because VTSG can passively stat amp its allies (this doesn't apply to the planes). The Avatars should have superior power and speed, and also their attacks can pierce through multiple targets at a time (the VTSG buffing affect raises the amount of enemies the attacks can pierce through. It also significantly increases their range, but I doubt that'll matter in this fight). For their attack, they shoot corrupted sun beams which if that isn't enough energy to overpower the Mugann on its own, they actually fire triple shots, so multiply that by 3 and also they do that attack several times per second. However the death explosion might prove problematic. The avatars have the ability to fly, but they do typically fight from the ground anyway, unlike the planes and the VTSG, so getting carpet bombed would do some heavy damage to them as a group. Assuming some survive the first set of of explosions though they would probably be fine to avoid the rest with their higher speed and flight
In character, the Sun God would probably try to take out all the Mugann one at a time probably going from strongest to weakest, if not by AP/dura then by ability assuming there's any variation at all. Probably more importantly though is the avatars which will target similarly but since their base stats are equalized, that would actually make them the strongest things on the battlefield by a pretty significant margin because VTSG can passively stat amp its allies (this doesn't apply to the planes). The Avatars should have superior power and speed, and also their attacks can pierce through multiple targets at a time (the VTSG buffing affect raises the amount of enemies the attacks can pierce through. It also significantly increases their range, but I doubt that'll matter in this fight). For their attack, they shoot corrupted sun beams which if that isn't enough energy to overpower the Mugann on its own, they actually fire triple shots, so multiply that by 3 and also they do that attack several times per second. However the death explosion might prove problematic. The avatars have the ability to fly, but they do typically fight from the ground anyway, unlike the planes and the VTSG, so getting carpet bombed would do some heavy damage to them as a group. Assuming some survive the first set of of explosions though they would probably be fine to avoid the rest with their higher speed and flight
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is there any limit on Nia's summoning capabilities? Either physically or from being in-character? VTSG will constantly summon new avatars as they die off and also just kinda disappear on their own to be replaced with a new one, but there's no case of the planes being taken down since that's not a thing that can happen ingame. I would assume that VTSG would react to that the same way it'd react to an avatar dying which would be to just summon a new plane in its place. The VTSG will pretty much never be without its summons unless one could kill them faster than VTSG can summon them
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iirc, the forcefields aren't equalized to match the opponent's physical stats, they're still at the same level they normally would be
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wait really? That would surprise me since that's basically saying that for some characters dura isn't actually equalized, as many characters literally rely on forcefields in character as their defense and that's how they're listed stat-wise. And especially because if it's the case that forcefields aren't equalized then VTSG might be pretty much untouchable since the knockbacking magic field is listed in its abilities as a kind of forcefield
- 2,765
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Both characters might be too OP for the tournament because of everything we brought up. So what even is there to talk about other than "Can't bypass forcefields"
- 1,712
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although, If the Mugann rely on tanking with forcefields rather than dodging then that would be a big problem for them once their hit with a wave of status effects by VTSG including ice attacks which freeze them and everything else in a small radius around them in place. Other status effects that they would get from tanking hits include being covered in glue that reduces their speed a decent amount and also mind manipulation to make them abandon the fight temporarily if they dont resist that. Resistance to mind manip is one of the few resistances that VTSG doesn't negate
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Forcefields aren't durability tho. There are cases when they're not used for themselves
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maybe they're not, but the interpretation where they are feels more in the spirit of the tourney to me, personally. Should we clarify with DD?
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Forcefield's aren't durability related though. So saying durability gets equalized can't mean forcefields are too, because they're entirely different things, and can be applied differently rather than just as a shield for themselves. We can't just change the rules mid-debate
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Mugann don't even have minds, they are advance scouts that are already controlled by Antispiral. The opponent would have to overcome Antispiral first
- 10,001
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- Thread starter
- #74
Forcefields are not equalized those are not durability.
- 8,857
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Infinite skill sounds wank as hell if there are no feats to back it up. What are the arguments here?
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Even without that argument, Nia was still shown to be incredibly proficient in Martial Arts
- 10,001
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- Thread starter
- #77
Where is the argument for backing up infinite skill ?
- 1,712
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right now it seems like the arguments are less about her and more about what her summons can do, mostly same with VTSG, with the exception that VTSG has some abilities that its own summons dont which will help in combat
- 2,765
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It comes from the argument that Simon merged with infinite possible versions of himself which would give him all of their knowledge and experience and would therefore increase at least all his already existing skills immensely. Antispiral fought on par with him, Nia as his messenger has that knowledge and has shown that she can successfully apply it. Although, that's not the main topic of this match rn
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for this fight, I don't think the infinite skill claim is even gonna make a difference so we've just been ignoring it
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