Equal Stats Tournament 2022: VTSG Supermonkey vs Jin Mu Won

[FRIMI]

I don't see why not? I mean, if the rain of chi was like easily dodgable to Jin, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to dodge VTSG's bullshittery, although it will likely be harder.

I think the answer to that would at least partially depend on whether he dodged or phased through that attack. VTSG should have NPI for the latter option

Also, can't we just make an argument for Jin insta-incapping Super Monkey once he realizes that it's basically just a statue?

You're thinking of the temple super monkey, this is the upgrade after the temple which summons the literal actual god.

While Jin doesn't use Pressure Point strike in character, but the logical reasoning for that is because everyone he fights against are trained martial artists, or people who have real strong Chi, ie not letting their guards are their meridians down. Although its likely that newer novel chapters will give more info about his pressure point strike, and analytical prediction.

But regardless, can ya give me a video of VTSG attacks? I've only seen photos, but that can only go so far.

setting up a VTSG can be annoying, but here's an approximation with the TSG instead (you can't make a vengeful true sun god in sandbox mode and going through the process of making a VTSG takes a bunch of time and effort that I'm not feeling right now).

This clip was meant to show the knockback capabilities in the previous match, I made a TSG and sent a few hundred test bloons at it. Test bloons are transparent bloons that are only available in sandbox mode that cannot be popped. The TSG stalls them all indefinitely with just a couple of the various knockback options, in particular the magic purple kb field. This video may not be the best since I intentionally sent enough stuff that TSG and the avatars would hit the pierce cap, but hopefully it'll give you a rough idea. lmk if a better video would help and I can go into challenge editor and record a clip of VTSG facing some high enough rounds that bloon hp ramping overwhelms it, that way you can see it when it's not shredding

 

[Rikimarox2]

He definitely wasn't phasing through the attacks, theres absolutely nothing in the currently translated novel, or even manhwa indicating that Jin can willingly phase through stuff.

Also, wouldn't that danmaku be much weaker since speed will be equalized? Like sure it's a lot of projectiles, but the only thing that IMO seems to make them impressive is the speed.

Granted, I'm sleepy af, so it might just me being a moron and thinking those aren't impressive.

 

[FRIMI]

Also, wouldn't that danmaku be much weaker since speed will be equalized? Like sure it's a lot of projectiles, but the only thing that IMO seems to make them impressive is the speed.

but the post-time skip key on Jin's page has higher speed than VTSG, so actually VTSG's danmaku remains the same and Jin is just slower. But also yeah in general the speed at which the attacks ae shot rapid-fire is part of what makes it impressive

 

[FRIMI]

bump?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ah right I forgot about this.

but the post-time skip key on Jin's page has higher speed than VTSG, so actually VTSG's danmaku remains the same and Jin is just slower. But also yeah in general the speed at which the attacks ae shot rapid-fire is part of what makes it impressive

Yes, but like, the only reason it seems that impressive is the speed part, and those yellow beams are clearly faster than the bloons or other projectiles. With speed equalized, Jin should be comfortably able to dodge everything.

Anyways, this is a lose lose situation to Jin, cuz If Jin wins, he has to fight necrozmas BS stuff.

 

[FRIMI]

Ah right I forgot about this.
Yes, but like, the only reason it seems that impressive is the speed part, and those yellow beams are clearly faster than the bloons or other projectiles. With speed equalized, Jin should be comfortably able to dodge everything.

That's true to an extent, but bloons do ramp in speed as rounds go on and even when DDT's (tied for fastest bloon type) get overwhelmingly fast, VTSG can still decently reliably land hits. I should add that even though it could easily be argued that bloons dont make an attempt to dodge, it is very common with other towers that attacks will whiff against faster bloons. It's literally a meme in the btd6 community that Quincy misses anything faster than a yellow bloon because they just straight up out-speed.

Anyways, this is a lose lose situation to Jin, cuz If Jin wins, he has to fight necrozmas BS stuff.

Same for VTSG

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah anyways, we'll probably keep arguing till the end of time so...

I'm honestly currently voting Jin, his Analytical prediction, sensing, LS advantage, and pressure point strike should hopefully be enough to take this.

Same for VTSG

Ain't no winners here lmao, we still lose regardless of who wins here.


Damn u pokemon.

 

[FRIMI]

I'm obviously gonna keep arguing how VTSG could win since that's the position I'm in as the supporter, but in actuality, I'm still super undecided about who really should win this match. The main thing that VTSG has going for it in this and really all matches is the passively buffed avatars which would contribute significantly to the danmaku while out-speeding Jin. It's not enough to blitz, but it is enough to make a big difference

 

[DemonicDude]

So Jin would get overwhelmed by avatars if he can't survive danmaku attacks ? Unless he has enough stamina and amps to do so ?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I'm obviously gonna keep arguing how VTSG could win since that's the position I'm in as the supporter, but in actuality, I'm still super undecided about who really should win this match. The main thing that VTSG has going for it in this and really all matches is the passively buffed avatars which would contribute significantly to the danmaku while out-speeding Jin. It's not enough to blitz, but it is enough to make a big difference

I mean, Jins movement do get smoother and more experienced the longer he's in the fight, and if he grabs VTSG, it's over since he has a massive LS advantage, and can just beat the shit out of him while he dodges. And once he realizes that the sun God is just a monkey with no apparent skill, he might go with pressure point strike.

 

[FRIMI]

I would like to reiterate that Jin's best play is to keep up ranged attacks since approaching VTSG is going to extremely difficult especially with all the knockback, in particular the field of magic that appears whenever an opponent gets within several meters of the sun god. Unlike the other methods of knockback, this one cannot be dodged without literally just leaving the field which is the point of the knockback in the first place. It also so happens that the magic kb field is the strongest knockback the VTSG has in its arsenal, capable of infinitely stalling hundreds of test bloons (as a reminder, those are the bloons that cannot be popped, they just keep going forever) which its other methods of knockback struggle against due to being overwhelmed by pure numbers

 

[FRIMI]

I mean, Jins movement do get smoother and more experienced the longer he's in the fight

which is why ideally the sun avatars will try to use their early AP and speed advantage to end the fight as quickly as possible, which is IC regardless of whether they know that Jin will improve over time

 

[DemonicDude]

I would like to reiterate that Jin's best play is to keep up ranged attacks since approaching VTSG is going to extremely difficult especially with all the knockback,

Off-Topic:
If a character has supernatural willpower would be able to force their way forward?

 

[Rikimarox2]

And now it's a question of whether they can finish him fast enough, but with his Analytical prediction, I highly doubt that.

Also, a question, how does knock back forcefield shit work against people with much higher LS?

 

[FRIMI]

And now it's a question of whether they can finish him fast enough, but with his Analytical prediction, I highly doubt that.

so in the rain of death that Jin dodged while slowed, was he slower than his opponent? Or was he still faster even after being slowed? Cuz like analytical prediction is really nice, but you gotta have the physical means to use it in the end

Also, a question, how does knock back forcefield shit work against people with much higher LS?

that's a good question. So here's the thing, to my knowledge, none of the characters in the bloons verse have any LS listed, however if the knockback was to use LS then we could actually calc VTSG's LS as at least somewhere between class 100 and class k since the knockback is strong enough to completely reverse the direction of blimps (although imo this is probably not the best way to do it since that would mean that the ******* boomerang monkey has the second highest LS right behind a boat, both of which would be more than God itself)

 

[FRIMI]

btw how in character would it be for Jin to just spam ranged attacks if he's not able to get within melee range? Also, I meant to ask this way earlier, but when VTSG summons planes and avatars, especially the avatars, is he likely to ignore them and go straight for VTSG or take out what appears to be the fodder (even though they're actually the highest damage dealers on the field which he'd probably figure out with information analysis) first?

 

[Rikimarox2]

btw how in character would it be for Jin to just spam ranged attacks if he's not able to get within melee range?

Unsure honestly, the dude always just uses the best techniques depending on the situation, and most of the time he tries to close the distance.

so in the rain of death that Jin dodged while slowed, was he slower than his opponent? Or was he still faster even after being slowed? Cuz like analytical prediction is really nice, but you gotta have the physical means to use it in the end

that's a good question. So here's the thing, to my knowledge, none of the characters in the bloons verse have any LS listed, however if the knockback was to use LS then we could actually calc VTSG's LS as at least somewhere between class 100 and class k since the knockback is strong enough to completely reverse the direction of blimps (although imo this is probably not the best way to do it since that would mean that the ******* boomerang monkey has the second highest LS right behind a boat, both of which would be more than God itself)

We do know that he was slowed by the dudes killing intent, but that's really it. Although nothing in the fight noted that he was somehow faster than the dude he fought against, as he noted that due to the killing intent of his opponent, he got hit quite a few times. Although that was before he got his Analytical prediction, which then caused him to dodge everything. And it was also stated that he dodged everything by the tiniest margin.

As for the LS, I still don't really know. Can't you just scale God to the boomerang monkey?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Anyways, after thinking about it, I honestly don't mind just giving the win to super monkey. The next match is a pain in the ass anyways, and I sure as hell don't wanna argue against pokemon dudes and their bs 4x Amp and stuff.

 

[FRIMI]

Unsure honestly, the dude always just uses the best techniques depending on the situation, and most of the time he tries to close the distance

I mean in this case I think that closing the distance will be next impossible because of knockback and that's not even mentioning the fact that VTSG is never seen not flying in character

We do know that he was slowed by the dudes killing intent, but that's really it. Although nothing in the fight noted that he was somehow faster than the dude he fought against, as he noted that due to the killing intent of his opponent, he got hit quite a few times. Although that was before he got his Analytical prediction, which then caused him to dodge everything. And it was also stated that he dodged everything by the tiniest margin.

I mean that's enough for me to say that this should probably at least be an incon, if not fully taken by Jin depending on his ranged capabilities

As for the LS, I still don't really know. Can't you just scale God to the boomerang monkey?

no because boomerang monkey literally has better knockback feats than VTSG lmfao. And the boat has an ability that can hook any tier of blimp, including the one that typically resists that sort of thing, making it one of two towers in the game whose special ability can actually affect B.A.D. bloons which just have tons of resistances. They literally used to resist time manipulation until an ingame update nerfed that out of them.

 

[FRIMI]

I mean that's enough for me to say that this should probably at least be an incon

Anyways, after thinking about it, I honestly don't mind just giving the win to super monkey. The next match is a pain in the ass anyways, and I sure as hell don't wanna argue against pokemon dudes and their bs 4x Amp and stuff.

I guess if it goes to incon instead of coin flipping, VTSG can just move forward then which is kinda anticlimactic but whatever

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah, even though I personally believe it's either an Incon or just Jin straight up winning, the real doom is the next pokemon match.

Gege, anticlimatic af, but you can enjoy that pokemon match :3

 

[FRIMI]

Yeah, even though I personally believe it's either an Incon or just Jin straight up winning, the real doom is the next pokemon match.

Gege, anticlimatic af, but you can enjoy that pokemon match :3

Agreed, thanks and maybe VTSG won’t get curb stomped TOO hard

 

[Popted2]

Super Monky advance to the next round

 

[DemonicDude]

Alright.