Emerl Upgrade

[LaserPrecision]

I think Emerl should have their Small Star statistic changed (Ultimate Emerl key). The current reasoning behind the statistic is that since we don't know how much energy he absorbed, that he shouldn't be scaled to its full yield:

Which to be honest, seems a little unfair to me. To absorb even a PORTION of a Multi-Solar System weapon seems strange. So I'll elaborate on how I think Emerl should be upgraded accordingly.
But before that, one strange thing I'd like to note, is that for some reason the wiki has the impression that Emerl absorbed the residual energy of the blast FROM the Egg Blaster:

But nothing in the game after rewatching it suggests that. Eggman fired the Egg Blaster, explained that his link can be broken if presented with overwhelming power and then told him to start capturing energy. From there Emerl started acquiring data from the Egg Blaster, or so it seems anyway. What I'm saying is from what was shown, he was absorbing the energy from the Final Egg Blaster its self, not the residual energy from the blast (Which doesn't make much sense to me).

Now, I know what you're thinking; "But Laser, even if he absorbed energy from the Egg Blaster itself, it was still an unknown amount, and thus shouldn't amount towards anything at all!"

The game actually gives us all the information that we need to determine how much energy Emerl absorbed from it.

As we all know, It's considered a Multi Solar System level weapon. Eggman demonstrated that by destroying several stars in a single blast. But as we know, soon after Emerl absorbed energy from the Egg Blaster, he targeted Earth. Keep in mind that Ultimate Emerl has no reason to hold back, he's essentially transformed into a Gizoid that wants to cause mass destruction which is what Eggman more or less to drag out of Emerl which we see Shadow explains throughout the story:

Once Eggman awakens Emerl, he immediately disobeys him and starts talking about destruction and conquering:

So when he fired the Final Egg Blaster at Earth, he should have zero motives to hold back. A fair assumption, correct? After all, if he destroyed Earth, he'd have nothing to conquer in the Solar System and would need to move to other ones to conquer and destroy anyways. With that said, the Final Egg Blaster was shown to display Multi Solar System levels of power, reaching two separate Stars. Yet the Final Egg Blaster ONLY threatened to destroy Earth. Nothing more than that:

My conclusion is that the energy Emerl absorbed from the Final Egg Blaster was enough to 'downgrade' it from MSS level to Planet level. Thus, we could get Emerl's absorbed power based on the decrease in FEB's energy yield Earth. Which would still be really powerful, but inferior to the absolute full yield of the Final Egg Blaster.

Modern Sonic would be upgraded to Emerl's level via fighting him as he's currently placed at Small Star level for facing Emerl, and thus anyone who scales to Sonic would also be placed at Emerl's power. But I'm open to other interpretations or ideas, so let's discuss!

 

[Theuser789]

Uh, there's a lot of jumps here, nothing in the game indicates that ONLY the Earth was going to be destroyed, nor that the blast was weakned from 4-A to 5-B. You just make a lot of jumps to reach your conclusion

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

We shouldn't really try to assume that the blast was weakened the moment Emerl absorbed it's power, but I seriously never understood the portrayal of ''absorbing residual energy'' from the Blaster when it's implied that he absobed a lot of energy from a 4-A power source.

Anything else, this would raise a lot of questions about the legitimacy of Emerl's Ultimate state powering him up to 4-A or not. There is no point of the Blaster being weakened after the energy was released on the stars far away.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Uh, there's a lot of jumps here, nothing in the game indicates that ONLY the Earth was going to be destroyed, nor that the blast was weakned from 4-A to 5-B. You just make a lot of jumps to reach your conclusion

Eggman's seems to imply only Earth would be destroyed when he claims "If the Earth the Earth is gone, I won't be able to to achieve world domination!". I think he would be a LOT more worried about dying in the blast if he was worried about it destroying the Solar System, given that we see the Death Egg the Final Egg Blaster is mounted on is clearly in the Solar Systems orbit:

I think if the entire Solar System was in danger, that would've been noted or brought up at least once. But from what it seemed, it was only going to destroy Earth.

If the Solar System was going to be destroyed, Eggman should be a lot more concerned, but he doesn't seem to be at all. He's more worried over the fact he won't be able to rule the Planet.

It seems to make sense to me that Eggman wouldn't be worried about it destroying more than the Earth from inside the Solar System's orbit after he commanded Emerl to capture energy from the Final Egg Blaster which would logically weaken its overall firepower.

Edit: I should also note, Shadow who should've overheard the conversation stated it would be the destruction of Earth. If anything more than the Planet was going to be destroyed, like the Solar System, I think it again would've been noted:

 

[LaserPrecision]

Bump





So anyway, let me make this more obvious, I've been made aware that I worded the argument weird.

Emerl absorbed enough energy from the Final Egg Blaster to nerf it from Multi Solar System level to Planet level. This is essentially confirmed because Eggman's Death Egg which is just outside of Earth's orbit wouldn't be destroyed. Confirmed when Eggman stated that if the Planet was destroyed, he'd have nothing to conquer. Which directly implies he'd be alive to even say so. If he was going to die, conquering Earth would be the least of his worries. I think it seems blatantly obvious it would ONLY destroy Earth.

Thus, to get Emerl's AP, all we would need to do is subtract Planet level energy yield from the Final Egg Blaster's energy yield.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Emerl absorbed enough energy from the Final Egg Blaster to nerf it from Multi Solar System level to Planet level. This is essentially confirmed because Eggman's Death Egg which is just outside of Earth's orbit wouldn't be destroyed. Confirmed when Eggman stated that if the Planet was destroyed, he'd have nothing to conquer. Which directly implies he'd be alive to even say so. If he was going to die, conquering Earth would be the least of his worries. I think it seems blatantly obvious it would ONLY destroy Earth.

This sounds like a direct appeal to AoE shenanigans, Emerl is just concentrating power inside of the cannon to destroy the planet, nerf it to planet level would be nonsense considering that like a single demonstration of the FEB's power already performed a 4-A feat, and Emerl is just concentrating that much energy on a single point to not destroy a huge part of the scenario unlike the occasion where Eggman used the power of the weapon to destroy the stars far away and Emerl being overloaded by the energy of said destroyed stars, it doesn't add something notable into this case.

 

[LaserPrecision]

This sounds like a direct appeal to AoE shenanigans, Emerl is just concentrating power inside of the cannon to destroy the planet, nerf it to planet level would be nonsense considering that like a single demonstration of the FEB's power already performed a 4-A feat, and Emerl is just concentrating that much energy on a single point to not destroy a huge part of the scenario unlike the occasion where Eggman used the power of the weapon to destroy the stars far away and Emerl being overloaded by the energy of said destroyed stars, it doesn't add something notable into this case.

Why would Emerl be holding back the power of the FEB? He was quite literally going rouge and becoming a mass weapon of destruction. He'd have no motive to hold back its power. Is it not convenient that Emerl absorbed its power as ordered by Eggman and then it suddenly decrease in power to a level that he wasn't at ALL scared of the risk of possibly dying? Emerl's going out of control, Eggman's certain he won't die (He suggests he'll survive the blast when he states there'll be no planet to conquer if Emerl blows it up) and in addition Emerl's going out of control. Nothing suggests he was holding back its power to ONLY affect the Earth. Someone would need to provide evidence to support the positive assertion that he held back the AoE.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

But nothing in the game after rewatching it suggests that. Eggman fired the Egg Blaster, explained that his link can be broken if presented with overwhelming power and then told him to start capturing energy. From there Emerl started acquiring data from the Egg Blaster, or so it seems anyway. What I'm saying is from what was shown, he was absorbing the energy from the Final Egg Blaster its self, not the residual energy from the blast (Which doesn't make much sense to me)

Honestly this caused more confusion than I ever thought it would be, since nothing in the game itself implies that he is absorbing residual energy from the blaster and no opposite statement of it being an unknown source.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Honestly this caused more confusion than I ever thought it would be, since nothing in the game itself implies that he is absorbing residual energy from the blaster and no opposite statement of it being an unknown source.

Agreed. I have no idea where the residual energy statement came from. I also have trouble understanding how he'd absorb the energy of a blast LIGHTYEARS away from his location (Seeing as it destroyed several stars).

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Emerl absorbed enough energy from the Final Egg Blaster to nerf it from Multi Solar System level to Planet level. This is essentially confirmed because Eggman's Death Egg which is just outside of Earth's orbit wouldn't be destroyed. Confirmed when Eggman stated that if the Planet was destroyed, he'd have nothing to conquer. Which directly implies he'd be alive to even say so. If he was going to die, conquering Earth would be the least of his worries. I think it seems blatantly obvious it would ONLY destroy Earth.

That isn’t blatantly obvious at all, it’s your own interpretation. Nothing in the game suggests that the FEB was weakened to 5-B or that ONLY Earth would be destroyed by the FEB’s second blast, the reason that Eggman and Shadow were only worried Earth’s impending destruction as opposed to the rest of the solar system is simply because they cared more about Earth at the moment. It’s like someone being more concerned about their particular home’s destruction when a flood ravages their town.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The presumption that Emerl absorbed “residual energy” comes from the fact that he didn’t absorb the FEB’s blast itself, he started capturing energy after the explosion.

 

[LaserPrecision]

That isn’t blatantly obvious at all, it’s your own interpretation. Nothing in the game suggests that the FEB was weakened to 5-B or that ONLY Earth would be destroyed by the FEB’s second blast, the reason that Eggman and Shadow were only worried Earth’s impending destruction as opposed to the rest of the solar system is simply because they cared more about Earth at the moment. It’s like someone being more concerned about their particular home’s destruction when a flood ravages their town.

That argument makes sense for Shadow, looking back at it, it wasn't as good of an example. But Eggman's BLATANTLY implying that he would survive the explosion, look into his quote "If the earth is gone, I won't be able to achieve world domination!"

Implying that he would have nothing to conquer AFTERWORDS means he would be alive to not be able to do so. If he were worried about dying, he would have no reason to worry about not conquering it because he would be dead.

The presumption that Emerl absorbed “residual energy” comes from the fact that he didn’t absorb the FEB’s blast itself, he started capturing energy after the explosion.

nothing in the game suggests he absorbed energy FROM the residual energy of the blast. But just the Final Egg Blaster itself. Not from the initial blast, but the CANON. As in the source of the blast. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

The presumption that Emerl absorbed “residual energy” comes from the fact that he didn’t absorb the FEB’s blast itself, he started capturing energy after the explosion.

Which isn't a proper justification to give the wording of ''residual energy'' and stuff like that. Like, the problem with this is the very fact that nothing implies that he is a absorbing a portion of that power or even an unknown amount of it taking this presumption at face value, since he was already copying the cannon's data to power up himself causing him to overload and lose control in the process, Emerl's death was kind of only stated by Tails that if Sonic fought him he would return to normal but it would result in his destruction within 30 seconds before firing the second blast. So unless a better justification is given this note doesn't make much sense in practice.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

snip

If Emerl absorbed ALL the FEB’s energy it wouldn’t have the power to function, which obviously wasn’t the case. That’s where “unknown portion” comes from.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

If Emerl absorbed ALL the FEB’s energy it wouldn’t have the power to function

Tails did imply that he absorbed a lot of energy that was contained inside of the cannon, and this point fails in practice because if Emerl did copy the cannon's data then why he didn't get destroyed, the data contained inside of the Blaster has the energy of several destroyed stars registered? He was only highly unstable by the amount of energy absorbed and he could still function before Sonic destroyed him in the process. And that was still for half of a minute.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Tails did imply that he absorbed a lot of energy that was contained inside of the cannon

How much is “a lot”? That’s not enough to base a gargantuan Tier jump on.

and this point fails in practice because if Emerl did copy the cannon's data then why he didn't get destroyed, the data contained inside of the Blaster has the energy of several destroyed stars registed? He was only highly unstable by the amount of energy absorbed and he could still function before Sonic destroyed him in the process. And that was still for half of a minute.

To be frank I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.

 

[LaserPrecision]

How much is “a lot”? That’s not enough to base a gargantuan Tier jump on.

A lot always implies a large number or amount and 'a great deal'. I would say the implication is quite simple. That he absorbed a LOT of the FEB's power. Meaning a majority of it. I really doubt it would be noted if he didn't absorb an amount to a degree that would significantly raise his power. I would even be fine with a 'possibly higher' ranking.

Anyways, my thesis very well solves this problem of 'how much'.

Eggman knew he wouldn't be killed from the explosion (Thus his statement of not being able to conquer it if it was destroyed), thus we could get the yield by subtracting the FEB's yield from Planet level energy yields (Baseline I suppose). I've given plenty of evidence and the counterargument is ALWAYS "You don't KNOW if it was only going to destroy Earth". I've given evidence as to why it was only going to destroy Earth. Now can I get some evidence on why it would destroy MORE than Earth?

Sorry if this came off rude, never the intention I have. I'm just very blunt with how I write things.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

That argument makes sense for Shadow, looking back at it, it wasn't as good of an example. But Eggman's BLATANTLY implying that he would survive the explosion, look into his quote "If the earth is gone, I won't be able to achieve world domination!"

Implying that he would have nothing to conquer AFTERWORDS means he would be alive to not be able to do so. If he were worried about dying, he would have no reason to worry about not conquering it because he would be dead.

Alternatively Eggman may just be demented and twisted enough to see his goal of world domination as more important to him than his own life. Although, what is the significance of Eggman surviving?

nothing in the game suggests he absorbed energy FROM the residual energy of the blast. But just the Final Egg Blaster itself. Not from the initial blast, but the CANON. As in the source of the blast. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Fair point here, “residual energy” can be dropped.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Alternatively Eggman may just be demented and twisted enough to see his goal of world domination as more important to him than his own life. Although, what is the significance of Eggman surviving?

He COULD be, but Eggman's always seemed quite level-headed. Desperate at times, but demented and twisted doesn't seem right. He seems more like a formal villain. He also does care about his own life/safety. We've seen him do good or fake doing good when his life was in danger because he was afraid of dying. Such as when he worked with Sonic to stop Solaris since he would otherwise die, and also begged for mercy against Super Sonic to stall for time so he could trap him, or working with Super Sonic to stop Gemerl who would eventually kill Eggman.

Seems like a baseless theory to me. I get what you mean, but it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

How much is “a lot”? That’s not enough to base a gargantuan Tier jump on.

When generally used as an adverb, ''a lot'' is used as some sort of intensity or a significantly high degree of measurement for a certain quantity or object of an objectively high scale of quantity.

For this case this wouldn't seem to be any different in practice, at least from what the implications are used.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

He COULD be, but Eggman's always seemed quite level-headed. Desperate at times, but demented and twisted doesn't seem right. He seems more like a formal villain. He also does care about his own life/safety. We've seen him do good or fake doing good when his life was in danger because he was afraid of dying. Such as when he worked with Sonic to stop Solaris since he would otherwise die, and also begged for mercy against Super Sonic to stall for time so he could trap him, or working with Super Sonic to stop Gemerl who would eventually kill Eggman.

Seems like a baseless theory to me. I get what you mean, but it doesn't make sense to me.

On a couple of occasions, Eggman has displayed a disregard for his own life in order for his plans to come into fruition, outright attempting to suicide bomb Station Square (“I'll take the whole city with me!”) and telling Shadow that he may not survive his confrontation with Sonic on the ARK but proceeding to directly confront them anyhow. It’s shown his deepest desire is to see the Empire Empire expanded across the globe, a goal he’s been relentlessly obsessed with for years and has likely made his life’s purpose, so it’d make him that he’d be willing to die to achieve it.

Eggman’s mentality aside…

Although, what is the significance of Eggman surviving?

^This is the important part, you didn’t answer this.

A lot always implies a large number or amount and 'a great deal'. I would say the implication is quite simple. That he absorbed a LOT of the FEB's power. Meaning a majority of it. I really doubt it would be noted if he didn't absorb an amount to a degree that would significantly raise his power. I would even be fine with a 'possibly higher' ranking.

Can I see evidence that he absorbed a “majority” of its energy? I don’t recall this being stated.

I've given plenty of evidence and the counterargument is ALWAYS "You don't KNOW if it was only going to destroy Earth". I've given evidence as to why it was only going to destroy Earth.

You haven’t really given any, just a statement that Earth would be destroyed, but this doesn’t limit the FEB’s capability. I explained that with my flood analogy.

Now can I get some evidence on why it would destroy MORE than Earth?

The FEB showed moments prior to be capable of annihilating star systems, so unless you have conclusive evidence that it suddenly got a bajillion times weaker then the default assumption would be that its second blast would also have solar system destroying destructive capacity.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Although, what is the significance of Eggman surviving?

This is the important part, you didn’t answer this.

Eggman surviving would imply not much more than the Earth would be destroyed. As shown, Eggman's Death Egg was not too far outside of Earth's orbit (as per usual):

If something close outside of Earth's atmosphere is safe from the explosion, why wouldn't the rest of the Solar System be safe?

On a couple of occasions, Eggman has displayed a disregard for his own life in order for his plans to come into fruition, outright attempting to suicide bomb Station Square (“I'll take the whole city with me!”) and telling Shadow that he may not survive his confrontation with Sonic on the ARK but proceeding to directly confront them anyhow. It’s shown his deepest desire is to see the Empire Empire expanded across the globe, a goal he’s been relentlessly obsessed with for years and has likely made his life’s purpose, so it’d make him that he’d be willing to die to achieve it.

Can you link me videos to these scenes? It doesn't have to be here, it can be on my message wall. I'd like to look further into the context.

Can I see evidence that he absorbed a “majority” of its energy? I don’t recall this being stated.

My previous reply was explaining that a lot seems to mean a fair portion or a majority of its energy. Why would it be stated he's absorbed a lot if he hardly sapped a noticeable amount of energy from the FEB?

You haven’t really given any, just a statement that Earth would be destroyed, but this doesn’t limit the FEB’s capability. I explained that with my flood analogy.

The flood analogy is cool and all, and works for Shadow as he's on Earth. It doesn't work for Eggman who's not even on the Planet and directly implying he'd survive the blast. Here's a different analogy where I'm in the role of Eggman. I'm at my home, and someone threatens to bomb or flat out destroy another country. I respond "Noooo, don't destroy that country, if you destroy it, I won't be able to conquer it anymore!" What implication is there that I'd directly die as a result?

Also, if you were in a flood that was certain to wipe out the whole town and kill you, I don't see a reason to care more about your house unless you were sure to survive it. In that case, I would be worried about my home. If not, I wouldn't even bother. I'd die anyways, so why sweat it?

The FEB showed moments prior to be capable of annihilating star systems, so unless you have conclusive evidence that it suddenly got a bajillion times weaker then the default assumption would be that its second blast would also have solar system destroying destructive capacity.

It showcased that power BEFORE Eggman commanded Emerl to start capturing energy from it. I need evidence that it would still possess that power AFTER having 'a lot' of its power absorbed from it. I'm not asserting that it got weaker magically, but that it got significantly weaker because Emerl was commanded to absorb its power.

 

[Theuser789]

The main problem of this thread is this complete assumption that the FEB was ONLY going to destroy the Earth, and then instead of Emerl simply focusing the cannon on Earth, it means that the cannon was weakned because reasons

There's simply too many jumps in logic simply to reach a higher tier, even IF only the Earth was going to be destroyed that doesn't mean the cannon was weakned, Emerl's copying ability is never show to weaken whoever he is copying in the rest of the game, and even then the cannon was probably just focused on Earth, for example the Eclipse Cannon can pierce stars and yet in Shadow all it did was destroy the Black Comet, it didn't even destroy the Earth behind it. All in a all there's just too much guesswork and jumps in logic to simply reach a higher tier for the sake of reaching a higher tier

 

[LaserPrecision]

Let me respond to this bit by bit, because I keep explaining why I come to these 'jumps'. Sorry if this turns into a long comment in advance.

The main problem of this thread is this complete assumption that the FEB was ONLY going to destroy the Earth, and then instead of Emerl simply focusing the cannon on Earth, it means that the cannon was weakned because reasons

I've already given my assertion and it makes more sense than the assertions being made against it. FEB based on Eggman's statement WAS only going to destroy Earth because he was near Earth and not scared of dying. It also makes sense that the cannon was weakened because Emerl ABSORBED its power. Why would that NOT weaken it? But the excuse made here is that "What if he's just concentrating the power"? So what if he is, the burden of proof isn't on me to prove that him focusing the attack on Earth is more logical than it being weakened because it had its energy siphoned. That would be on the person who made the positive claim that Emerl DID do that without giving evidence.

Here's my argument in short: Emerl absorbed energy from FEB. This of course naturally made FEB weaker. The degree to which it was weakened to was a Planetary level as Eggman is asserting he won't die DESPITE being close to Earth.

Does that all not make sense? I'm not seeing any assumptions or leaps, or jumps. I supported the claims I've made up till this point.

There's simply too many jumps in logic simply to reach a higher tier, even IF only the Earth was going to be destroyed that doesn't mean the cannon was weakned, Emerl's copying ability is never show to weaken whoever he is copying in the rest of the game

The problem is, Emerl DIDN'T copy the FEB like he does with his opponents. He was explicitly told by Eggman to CAPTURE ENERGY from the FEB. Never to 'copy it'. Copying the FEB would at BEST mean he copies its moves/abilities like he does with others, but he he doesn't do this. Here's Eggman telling him to capture energy:

Nothing implies he 'copied' the Final Egg Blaster. I think it's quite clear cut that he absorbed its energy as commanded to by Eggman. It's even stated by Tails that he absorbed too much energy.

and even then the cannon was probably just focused on Earth, for example the Eclipse Cannon can pierce stars and yet in Shadow all it did was destroy the Black Comet

The Eclipse Cannon had reasoning behind why it needed to be focused from what I recall. In Emerl's case, he's completely out of control and malfunctioning and attempting to and talking about destroying everything. Why would he hold back its power and focus only on Earth? It serves no purpose at all. I think when making these types of assertions, you'd also need to provide evidence to support these claims (I'm not exempt from this, but the burden of proof keeps getting shifted onto me using the same arguments which I feel I've cleared up well enough). After all, they are positive claims, not negative ones.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Bump

 

[LaserPrecision]

Bump

 

[sanicspood]

Bump lol

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ok, what’s the statement that says FEB is capable of being weakened?

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbf even copying a hundredth or a thousandth of the cannon's power is still massively above small star.
Maybe a "likely higher" for Ultimate Emerl is more fitting.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ok, what’s the statement that says FEB is capable of being weakened?

Well naturally, having its energy absorbed would make it weaker. I don't know why its power/energy supply being sapped from it wouldn't make it weaker naturally. Or are you referring to an ability to focus its power? If so, no, there's no statements that its power can be focused/weakened to affect less area.

 

[Theuser789]

The main problem of this thread is still this assumption without proof that the FEB power was absorbed to Emerl for some insane reason, when Emerl's copy ability never absorbes powers in the entire game

 

[LaserPrecision]

The main problem of this thread is still this assumption without proof that the FEB power was absorbed to Emerl for some insane reason, when Emerl's copy ability never absorbes powers in the entire game

I explained this earlier. It didn't even appear to be his copy ability. At the beginning of the game, it's explained he copies abilities by watching people fight.
In the ending of the game an entirely different 'technique' was used. Instead of 'copying the FEB' (What would that even mean/do?), he is told to ABSORB/Capture Energy. Not copy the FEB. Why are we assuming he copied the FEB in the same way he copies fighters' techniques by watching them when he's specifically ordered to not copy, but capture energy from the FEB instead?

 

[Theuser789]

So Emerl suddenly used a completely new move he never used before in the game just because Eggman used slighty different wording, and because of that slighty different wording we must wank him to 4-A? Yeah no, Emerl copied the fighters move by watching them once, this is the same thing he did to the FEB, copied its move. Eggman says to capture energy simply to show the FEB was stronger than his previous link, Sonic, the narrative shows explicitly that the FEB was stronger than Sonic, since its power broke Sonic's link

 

[LaserPrecision]

So Emerl suddenly used a completely new move he never used before in the game just because Eggman used slighty different wording, and because of that slighty different wording we must wank him to 4-A? Yeah no, Emerl copied the fighters move by watching them once, this is the same thing he did to the FEB, copied its move. Eggman says to capture energy simply to show the FEB was stronger than his previous link, Sonic, the narrative shows explicitly that the FEB was stronger than Sonic, since its power broke Sonic's link

Yes. What's so weird about bringing out a new move at the last second? What would the implication of 'copying' the FEB even mean? Could you explain that? Would he copy its fighting techniques? That makes no sense, it has none. Tails blatantly states that he absorbed too much energy. 'Copying' its move makes no sense in this context. Eggman ordered him to capture energy from the FEB, and Tails stated he absorbed too much energy. It couldn't be more blatant that he absorbed power from it. He didn't 'copy its move'. If so, what 'move'? I always personally considered that Sonic held back throughout the story, but I know VSB has contentions against that, but assuming that were true, it would be possible for Emerl to establish a link with a power that is greater than suppressed Base Sonic. In which forced Sonic to go all out after Emerl absorbed the FEB's energy in which after the fight he regains himself before being destroyed due to being in bad condition (As he was destroying himself during the fight as per Gerald's coding).

Eggman tells Emerl to capture energy. Tails asserts that Emerl absorbed too much energy. Why should his copying ability here be considered?

Again stated by Tails that he absorbed too much energy:

Heck, it was stated by Emerl himself that his body couldn't contain the energy he was absorbing before Eggman ordered him to establish a link with himself (and after being ordered to capture its energy):

Please. If you could, show me where it was ever implied he 'copied FEB's move'. FEB doesn't even have a move. It's not a fighter. It's just a cannon attached to the Death Egg that fires beams capable of destroying Stars. What 'move' would there be to capture?

 

[Theuser789]

I genuily wonder if you even played Sonic Battle based on these questions, such as:

Yes. What's so weird about bringing out a new move at the last second?

Of course there's a problem when you just assume Emerl has a new power out of nowhere, where nobody in the game says so, simply to wank him to 4-A.

One, Emerl captures data, when Emerl looks at the blast's destruction he says "initializing data acquisition" in the in- game english translation setting of the japanese version with the Japanese wording having him state "start capture" for that same line at that time with the same context. For every single move Emerl captures it's data and energy to replicatate it, that's how Emerl keeps getting stronger, what happens with the FEB was not unique, stop nitpicking the wording and play the game

Please. If you could, show me where it was ever implied he 'copied FEB's move'. FEB doesn't even have a move. It's not a fighter. It's just a cannon attached to the Death Egg that fires beams capable of destroying Stars. What 'move' would there be to capture?

You have not played the game, Emerl can copy the colors of the fighters and even their stances, and yet you think he can't capture a beam?

Furthermore moves like Air Shot prove Emerl can copy the power of something in a incomplete way, its description "The first Air Shot that Emerl captured from Sonic. The capture was incomplete, and the skill isn't enabled.", meaning the same probably happened with the FEB

Sonic's fight with him didn't break his link, even if you assume Sonic was holding back when he was showing off his power, the power he showed while fighting Emerl wasn't stronger than the FEB

 

[LaserPrecision]

I gotta say, this is the best reply yet. It actually got the closest to changing my mind. Depending on how this continues my view may be changed here.

Of course there's a problem when you just assume Emerl has a new power out of nowhere, where nobody in the game says so, simply to wank him to 4-A.

People didn't seem to have a problem with assuming he had the power to absorb the FEB's energy when they stated he absorbed an unquantifiable amount of its energy in his profile. Is it not entirely possible that he had the ability the entire time, but no one except Eggman knew about that was a hidden function that he believed would be unlocked upon breaking his link with Sonic?

One, Emerl captures data, when Emerl looks at the blast's destruction he says "initializing data acquisition" in the in- game english translation setting of the japanese version with the Japanese wording having him state "start capture" for that same line at that time with the same context. For every single move Emerl captures it's data and energy to replicatate it, that's how Emerl keeps getting stronger, what happens with the FEB was not unique, stop nitpicking the wording and play the game

Was it ever stated Emerl absorbed energy when copying the techniques of fighters? Tails seems to state twice that Emerl has absorbed energy into his body as opposed to generating his own power to replicate the FEB's blast (See the previous reply for Tails' statements that he absorbed energy). It seems like such a weird thing to say if he's 'copying' the FEB's power.

You have not played the game, Emerl can copy the colors of the fighters and even their stances, and yet you think he can't capture a beam?

Those are fighters. I established in my last comment that I believed he could copy essentially anything from a fighter. I just found it strange to copy the power of an inanimate object that isn't even a fighter.

Furthermore moves like Air Shot prove Emerl can copy the power of something in a incomplete way, its description "The first Air Shot that Emerl captured from Sonic. The capture was incomplete, and the skill isn't enabled.", meaning the same probably happened with the FEB

With that said, is there a reason, assuming he did copy the move of the FEB, that he didn't obtain its full power and instead an incomplete version? It doesn't seem to go against the narrative or story if he does replicate its full power. I also don't believe it contradicts anything. Obviously, if there's something that suggests he only copied an incomplete version, I'm open to hear it.

Sonic's fight with him didn't break his link, even if you assume Sonic was holding back when he was showing off his power, the power he showed while fighting Emerl wasn't stronger than the FEB

What's to say it wasn't comparable or equal to FEB though? By the end of the fight, he inflicted enough damage to snap Emerl back to normal before he died from the damage already inflicted on his body (in addition to his body already overloading and causing irreversible damage).

 

[Theuser789]

People didn't seem to have a problem with assuming he had the power to absorb the FEB's energy when they stated he absorbed an unquantifiable amount of its energy in his profile. Is it not entirely possible that he had the ability the entire time, but no one except Eggman knew about that was a hidden function that he believed would be unlocked upon breaking his link with Sonic?

Profiles aren't WoG, you shouldn't create headcanons based on vague words, from the japonese version I linked in my previous post: キャプチャー開始 is the text part there, an online translator tool phrases it as "start capture". So its not capturing means absorbing and succing it into his body the remains of the attack or the battle station's energy supply (which the way its phrased on the profiles its not entirely specific so it doesn't exclude those two interpretations and confusion on where the energy is coming from (the emeralds) as a result of attempting to copy the blast), its just the data and the way the ability is described for "get skills" (going off the sonic team website for Emerl's profile is described here as :スキルゲット（他人の技をコピーできる）which an online translator tool phrases this as: Get skills (you can copy other people's skills)

Was it ever stated Emerl absorbed energy when copying the techniques of fighters? Tails seems to state twice that Emerl has absorbed energy into his body as opposed to generating his own power to replicate the FEB's blast (See the previous reply for Tails' statements that he absorbed energy). It seems like such a weird thing to say if he's 'copying' the FEB's power.

Those are fighters. I established in my last comment that I believed he could copy essentially anything from a fighter. I just found it strange to copy the power of an inanimate object that isn't even a fighter.

Emerl literally copied multiple weapons when he was on the Ark, as stated by Gerald in his diary:
Journal 3:
"More intriguing was that the data was all about melee combat and weapons of that age. Eventually, if this being is ever restored to its former state, it will put all that data to use, and recreate all the weaponry and combat abilities that it once had… And that's not all. If my guesses are correct, it will also have the ability to absorb modern weaponry as well. What have I done? I have uncovered a horrible weapon…"
Journal 4:
"It went on to explain: "Show me your true strength, and I shall obey. I am all things, and all shall belong to me." So, as it suggested, I brought before it my collection of model guns, and fired them all. Then, suddenly, it said, "I shall follow your every command, and never leave your side." And since then, it refuses to listen to anyone but me."
Journal 6:
"My worst fears have come true. The Gizoid has absorbed enough weaponry and technology that it has started to go out of control. The resulting rampage resulted in the destruction of most of the "Ark." … I have deciphered the rest of the stone tablet. It says, "When the Gizoid had learned all that it could, it became a god of wrath, and all was destroyed." The researchers somehow managed to subdue the Gizoid and sealed it away. Luckily, it only had one "Chaos Emerald" installed. If it were to have all 7 Emeralds installed, it might destroy the whole planet. The Gizoid is too much of a liability. I tried destroying its core, but nothing I did worked. I understand too little of the technology that built him. My best hope is to try and reprogram its AI into a free-willed, emotions-based AI…"

With that said, is there a reason, assuming he did copy the move of the FEB, that he didn't obtain its full power and instead an incomplete version? It doesn't seem to go against the narrative or story if he does replicate its full power. I also don't believe it contradicts anything. Obviously, if there's something that suggests he only copied an incomplete version, I'm open to hear it.

Because he couldn't handle the full power of the FEB, meaning he physically couldn't copy it's full power and had only copied an incomplete version

What's to say it wasn't comparable or equal to FEB though? By the end of the fight, he inflicted enough damage to snap Emerl back to normal before he died from the damage already inflicted on his body (in addition to his body already overloading and causing irreversible damage).

Because that's headcanon, there's no proof

 

[LaserPrecision]

Because he couldn't handle the full power of the FEB, meaning he physically couldn't copy it's full power and had only copied an incomplete version

Another way to interpret it is his body did replicate its full power, but it breaks apart his body because he can't handle it due to it working far beyond its capacities. I don't see a reason that just because his body can't handle its full power, that it means he didn't copy its full power. If that were the case, wouldn't his body only absorb as much as it can handle? Like with the air shot example, his body copied it to a degree that he could replicate it safely. It would make just as much sense to say he copied its full power, but his body couldn't handle it, no?

Because that's headcanon, there's no proof

I assumed that because Emerl snapped back to normal, that Sonic managed to recreate his link with Emerl seeing as before he was hellbent on killing Sonic and destroying Earth.

 

[Theuser789]

Another way to interpret it is his body did replicate its full power, but it breaks apart his body because he can't handle it due to it working far beyond its capacities. I don't see a reason that just because his body can't handle its full power, that it means he didn't copy its full power. If that were the case, wouldn't his body only absorb as much as it can handle? Like with the air shot example, his body copied it to a degree that he could replicate it safely. It would make just as much sense to say he copied its full power, but his body couldn't handle it, no?

You repeat yourself a lot in this sentence, Emerl straight up couldn't handle the capture of the weapon, so assuming he didn't copy it fully is perfectly is completely reasonable, rather than your assumption

I assumed that because Emerl snapped back to normal, that Sonic managed to recreate his link with Emerl seeing as before he was hellbent on killing Sonic and destroying Earth.

No, that wasn't for restoring the link, Tails straight up explained what Sonic did beforehand

 

[LaserPrecision]

You repeat yourself a lot in this sentence, Emerl straight up couldn't handle the capture of the weapon, so assuming he didn't copy it fully is perfectly is completely reasonable, rather than your assumption

The assumption of him copying the weapon fully and his body can't handle the full power isn't reasonable? Either way, I would imagine copying even a fraction of a Multi-Solar level weapon is more impressive than Dwarf Star level. I feel we should have a possibly far higher key.