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East Blue to Skypiea revisions.

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Someone should create a scaling chain given the new calcs and the fact that male and female officers of Baroque Works are similar in strength
 
What about a profile for Yama? He's also been needing one for the longest time on this site, and now would be the perfect time.
 
What will be changed based on the new calculations?
 
KobsterHope07 said:
The Reject Dial scales from Wyper Durability
Click to expand...
How do we know that the attack Enel used on the Moon wasn't more powerful than the attacks used against Wyper?

Enel has shown he can vary the amount of power he puts in to his different attacks from using 10 Million volts to 200 Million volts if he wants to.
 
Damage3245 said:
How do we know that the attack Enel used on the Moon wasn't more powerful than the attacks used against Wyper?
Click to expand...
And why he would have used far less power against Wyper than destroy a bunch of rock?

Its not like there is visual evidence that Enel had to put far more effort than usual to perform that feat on the Moon.
 
And why he would have used far less power against Wyper than destroy a bunch of rock?
Click to expand...

He was playing around with Wyper (and we actually already have a calc for the attack he used against Wyper).

When destroying those Space Pirates, he was furious and the scale of his attack was on a whole other level.

I don't see why we wouldn't use the calc we already have for his attack against Wyper for Wyper's durability.
 
Damage3245 said:
How do we know that the attack Enel used on the Moon wasn't more powerful than the attacks used against Wyper?

Enel has shown he can vary the amount of power he puts in to his different attacks from using 10 Million volts to 200 Million volts if he wants to.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
He was playing around with Wyper (and we actually already have a calc for the attack he used against Wyper).

When destroying those Space Pirates, he was furious and the scale of his attack was on a whole other level.

I don't see why we wouldn't use the calc we already have for his attack against Wyper for Wyper's durability.
Click to expand...
Screen_Shot_2021-09-09_at_11.22.03_AM.png

立ち向かってくる者がいれば、それが女子供であろうと容赦なく電撃を浴びせる。そこに神の慈悲はない。

If anyone confronts him, no matter if it is a woman or a child, he will mercilessly shower them with electric shocks. There is no mercy from God.
Click to expand...
And Enel used El Thor on Wyper, the technique that he uses to punish people when they speak bad on him, the technique that he uses to wipe out populations.
If he was playing with him the whole time he wouldn't have used El Thor.

There's no reason why he shouldn't scale.
 
Damage3245 said:
When destroying those Space Pirates, he was furious and the scale of his attack was on a whole other level.
Click to expand...
Notorious logical fallacy, false cause. Enel being furious does not make the proposition of the attack "being on whole other level" valid at all.

More evidence is needed to make a claim. We have no reason to start from presuppositions that are so epistemologically distant, when it's perfectly possible know the fact by empirical factors (Especially when we directly saw all of Enel's moves).

The attack that Enel used to create the crater is visibly a eletrical blast in wide area, that flows from his own body. This is a description that doesn't resemble his "El Thor" but perfectly matches his "Shock Release/Discharge" moves (It clearly looks like, with the attack used).
 
Okay, forget him being enraged.

The more relevant point is that we already have a calc for his attack on Wyper.

I don't see why this unrelated attack should be used instead for Wyper's durability.
 
KingTempest said:
Screen_Shot_2021-09-09_at_11.22.03_AM.png


And Enel used El Thor on Wyper, the technique that he uses to punish people when they speak bad on him, the technique that he uses to wipe out populations.
If he was playing with him the whole time he wouldn't have used El Thor.

There's no reason why he shouldn't scale.
Click to expand...
Okay. Never mind then.
 
KingTempest said:
If the ability he used on Wyper was calced at 9-A, would we use that?
Click to expand...
If Enel's attack on the Moon was 6-B, would we use that?

The answer to both questions is No, because they'd both be outliers.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Enel's overall AP getting an upgrade because he's shown the his max output is higher due to the Moon calc, but since we have a working calc for the specific attack that Wyper survived, I don't see why it should be replaced.

There is no rule, in One Piece or on VSBW, that a character's maximum shown attack potency absolutely has to be used to backscale to every other attack they've shown for scaling.
 
This is a simple issue.

If there are two different attacks, both individually calced at different values (and consistent enough to fall in the character's range of AP), then they should not be lumped together. Not all attacks have to have the same power unless specified. Characters are capable of changing their output.
 
Damage3245 said:
If Enel's attack on the Moon was 6-B, would we use that?
Click to expand...
If it was an outlier, then no
Damage3245 said:
The answer to both questions is No, because they'd both be outliers.
Click to expand...
Here's a better example.

If that feat was calculated at any other value that is dramatically lower that isn't an outlier, would we use it all because it has a calc?
Damage3245 said:
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Enel's overall AP getting an upgrade because he's shown the his max output is higher due to the Moon calc, but since we have a working calc for the specific attack that Wyper survived, I don't see why it should be replaced.

There is no rule, in One Piece or on VSBW, that a character's maximum shown attack potency absolutely has to be used to backscale to every other attack they've shown for scaling.
Click to expand...
Enel's El Thor is portrayed to be Enel's strongest attack outside of the Volt Amaru, far above this casual attack he used to wipe out the Space Pirates.

There's no reason just to say he scales to the lower end all because there's a calc for it
 
If that feat was calculated at any other value that is dramatically lower that isn't an outlier, would we use it all because it has a calc?
Click to expand...

Sure, like AKM said:

If there are two different attacks, both individually calced at different values (and consistent enough to fall in the character's range of AP), then they should not be lumped together. Not all attacks have to have the same power unless specified. Characters are capable of changing their output.
Click to expand...

As for:

Enel's El Thor is portrayed to be Enel's strongest attack outside of the Volt Amaru, far above this casual attack he used to wipe out the Space Pirates.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that his "casual attack" against the Space Pirates is portrayed to be his most powerful attack when not amped by the Ark Maxim.
 
KingTempest said:
Enel's El Thor is portrayed to be Enel's strongest attack outside of the Volt Amaru, far above this casual attack he used to wipe out the Space Pirates.
Click to expand...
This ^
There is no evidence that El Thor is an inferior attack than the one he used against space pirates.
 
KingTempest said:
We ignoring this?
Click to expand...
I literally responded to that.

El Thor is one of his more frequent, destructive attacks but I don't recall any statement about it being his most powerful. Or why this attack he used on the Moon can't be more powerful than it.

There is no evidence that El Thor is an inferior attack than the one he used against space pirates.
Click to expand...

Aside from actually calcing the two different attacks and directly comparing them of course.
 
AKM sama said:
This is a simple issue.

If there are two different attacks, both individually calced at different values (and consistent enough to fall in the character's range of AP), then they should not be lumped together. Not all attacks have to have the same power unless specified. Characters are capable of changing their output.
Click to expand...
Having said this, I'll add another bit.

If the attack that is calced to have lower power is proven to be the strongest attack of the character, then in that case things will change. Like, I wouldn't say a random ass ki blast from Goku scales above his kamehameha even though it yields a better calc.
 
Devil Fruit's become stronger as you train them, they just don't become stronger automatically. There's no reason to assume Enel got that much stronger just by sitting down on his ass in a ship for a few hours.


I also don't need how Enel being angry eliminates scaling to his other attack's, Enel angrily attacked several characters in Skypiea.
 
Devil Fruit's become stronger as you train them, they just don't become stronger automatically. There's no reason to assume Enel got that much stronger just by sitting down on his ass in a ship for a few hours.
Click to expand...

Nobody is arguing for this.
 
AKM sama said:
Having said this, I'll add another bit.

If the attack that is calced to have lower power is proven to be the strongest attack of the character, then in that case things will change. Like, I wouldn't say a random ass ki blast from Goku scales above his kamehameha even though it yields a better calc.
Click to expand...
There's a massive difference between Goku attacking with a Ki Blast in compromise to attacking with a Kamehameha and comparing that to someone who only attacks with lightning based attacks that don't get that much stronger without training or awakening.
 
Damage3245 said:
Nobody is arguing for this.
Click to expand...
You missed the point entirely, there's no reason for us to assume Enel was that much stronger on the moon when he had no way to get stronger outside of training his Devil Fruit. He got angry, he also got angry a lot back in Skypiea and El Thor isn't his strongest attack. Enel has stronger attacks in canon.
 
Damage3245 said:
If Enel's attack on the Moon was 6-B, would we use that?

The answer to both questions is No, because they'd both be outliers.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Enel's overall AP getting an upgrade because he's shown the his max output is higher due to the Moon calc, but since we have a working calc for the specific attack that Wyper survived, I don't see why it should be replaced.

There is no rule, in One Piece or on VSBW, that a character's maximum shown attack potency absolutely has to be used to backscale to every other attack they've shown for scaling.
Click to expand...
@LordGinSama; I think you missed where I said this.
 
I didn't miss anything, literally none of those comparisons you made make any logical sense.
If Enel's attack on the Moon was 6-B, would we use that?

The answer to both questions is No, because they'd both be outliers.


Well thankfully for us the Blast wasn't 6-B so that's irrelevant to bring up a gap with a different of literally several thousands of times.
 
LordGinSama said:
I didn't miss anything, literally none of those comparisons you made make any logical sense.
If Enel's attack on the Moon was 6-B, would we use that?

The answer to both questions is No, because they'd both be outliers.


Well thankfully for us the Blast wasn't 6-B so that's irrelevant to bring up a gap with a different of literally several thousands of times.
Click to expand...
Why on Earth are you responding to the bits that I didn't highlight in bold?

I highlighted the relevant part of that quote to bring it to your attention.
 
If Enel uses El Thor to reach a feat, the argument is: "El Thor is Enel's most powerful blow, no other scale".

If Enel uses a random attack to reach a certain feat, the argument is repeated, on the contrary.

I'm sorry but that sounds like sophistry, which discourages the debate.

El Thor is - in most cases - Enel's decisive technique as well as his main attack. There's no reason to rate it below a one that he only uses to defeat fodders.
 
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