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East Blue to Skypiea revisions.

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Ryuga21 said:
If Enel uses El Thor to reach a feat, the argument is: "El Thor is Enel's most powerful blow, no other scale".
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Who said this?

What is the basis for it being his most powerful blow?

Is it anything other than "This attack leaves a crater whereas some other attacks do not"?

Because that's a real speculative argument there. On the same basis the attack he used on the Moon is even stronger than El Thor because it's an even bigger crater, if that's how you want to look at it.
 
Damage3245 said:
I literally responded to that.
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You just edited your message right after
Damage3245 said:
El Thor is one of his more frequent, destructive attacks but I don't recall any statement about it being his most powerful. Or why this attack he used on the Moon can't be more powerful than it.
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I'd say the attack called "God's judgement" which he uses to eliminate groups of people who talk shit about him which he needs to transform a portion of his body into lightning to use is more powerful than the attack that he can casually use with the palm of his hand.
 
No Damage, King has already made it clear here that El Thor is only used in cases where Enel decisively wants to defeat the opponent, to punish him. This makes it clear that it is his strongest move, since by the authority of Enel himself, he only gives this attack such a finalizing and decisive value.

If the crater the lunar strike made was larger, that just indicates that Enel attacked a larger area, not that El Thor is less proficient.
 
I'd say the attack called "God's judgement" which he uses to eliminate groups of people who talk shit about him which he needs to transform a portion of his body into lightning to use is more powerful than the attack that he can casually use with the palm of his hand.
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That's fine to believe that, but that reasoning alone doesn't convince me that El Thor is his strongest attack.

What we see regarding his attack on the Space Pirates is this and this, with this being the aftermath.

Nothing shown here about this being an attack just from the palm of his hand.

No Damage, King has already made it clear here that El Thor is only used in cases where Enel decisively wants to defeat the opponent, to punish him. This makes it clear that it is his strongest move, since by the authority of Enel himself, he only gives this attack such a finalizing and decisive value.
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He doesn't only use the attack as a final measure.

He spams it out during fights and uses it to punish fodder.

Nothing about that makes it "clear that it is his strongest move".
 
I really don't know how to make a sandbox yet, although I would like to, but here's what I got for Yama. You guys can make any necessary improvements upon it.

Yama (One Piece)


Summary


The Commander of Enel's Divine Soldiers who moves lightly despite his great size. Yama is fanatically loyal to Enel to the point he will even reprimand The Priests if he feels like they’re being disrespectful in his god’s presence. He also has no interest in the past. During his fight with Robin, he kept mercilessly destroying the ancient ruins, thus earning her wrath and spurring her to defeat him.



Powers and Stats



Tier: High 7-C



Name: Yama



Origin: One Piece




Gender: Male




Age: 43 (Pre-Timeskip), 45 (Post-Timeskip)




Classification: Birkan (a humanoid race of the Sky Islands), Commander of Enel’s Divine Soldiers




Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Skilled Combatant, Limited Air Manipulation via Axe Dial, Acrobatics



Attack Potency: Large Town Level (Could overpower [[Nico Robin]], who was more focused on trying to protect the Shandora ruins from him because of her great respect for history. Though was absolutely no match against her once they moved far enough away and she started fighting back.)


Speed: (Easily deflected an iron cannonball- this is literally the only speed feat I could find for him during the arc)


Lifting Strength: Unknown


Striking Strength: Large Town Class (Did damage to Robin. He also easily destroyed a good bit of the Shandora stone ruins, including shattering the ground with a single attack)


Durability: Large Town level (Withstood Robin’s furious counterattack, which included him taking his own Ten-Fold Axe to the stomach)


Stamina: Above Average


Range: Standard Melee Range


Standard Equipment: His Ten-Fold Axe (a sash with ten Axe Dials sewn on to it)

Intelligence: Above average. A skilled combatant, and due to being chosen by Enel to be the Commander of his militia, he also seems to possess a great deal of leadership ability.

Weaknesses: None notable

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Axe Dials: Axe Dials stores physical impacts and delivers a thin blast of air capable of slicing through a man and his shield made of iron in one blow.

Axe Mountain (斬撃満点アックスマウンテン Akkusu Maunten?, literally "Slicing Attack Perfect Score"): Yama stretches the Ten-Fold Axe out in front of him and flies toward his opponent. When the axe makes contact, the opponent is stabbed by a sharp burst of air. This attack's flaw is that the dials must be on the side of the sash facing the opponent, otherwise, they can injure the user as well. This is called Mountain Axe in the Viz Manga.


Stomach Mountain (腹部満点ストマックマウンテン Sutomakku Maunten?, literally "Stomach Perfect Score"): Yama does a simple body slam which, given his weight, can be devastating. This is called Mountain Belly in the Viz Manga.


Punch Mountain (拳満点パンチマウンテン Panchi Maunten?, literally "Fist Perfect Score"): A simple punch, that again, can be quite powerful due to Yama's strength and weight. This is called Mountain Punch in the Viz Manga.


Drop Mountain (落下満点ドロップマウンテン Doroppu Maunten?, literally "Falling Perfect Score"): Yama leaps into the air, flips several times, and delivers a flying drop kick to the enemy. This is called Mountain Drop in the Viz Manga.
 
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If you link to your user page in the wiki, I can show you how to create a sandbox there.
 
RoronoaxRobin said:
I really don't know how to make a sandbox yet, although I would like to, but here's what I got for Yama. You guys can make any necessary improvements upon it.
Click to expand...
You basically take your user name url on the wiki itself (not the forum) and add a "/" to it at the end followed by whatever you'd like to name your sandbox. You then click enter, and you'll see a "create" button, click it and fill out the contents of your sandbox as you please. Then you save it, and voila.

Example for a sandbox link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:RoronoaxRobin/Yama Profile

I hope that helped.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
You basically take your user name url on the wiki itself (not the forum) and add a "/" to it at the end followed by whatever you'd like to name your sandbox. You then click enter, and you'll see a "create" button, click it and fill out the contents of your sandbox as you please. Then you save it, and voila.

Example for a sandbox link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:RoronoaxRobin/Yama Profile

I hope that helped.
Click to expand...
Ok, but do I need to go to my Contributions to find it again? Or will it be on the blog section?
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Ok, but do I need to go to my Contributions to find it again? Or will it be on the blog section?
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Nah, it won't be on the blog section unfortunately; however, you can find it through the search bar. Just type out "User:MonkeyOfLife/" and your sandboxes will appear. If you have a lot of sandboxes, you may need to write a key word or something, but that's about it. Of course, you can also dig for it in your contributions, but that's way too annoying and time consuming.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
You basically take your user name url on the wiki itself (not the forum) and add a "/" to it at the end followed by whatever you'd like to name your sandbox. You then click enter, and you'll see a "create" button, click it and fill out the contents of your sandbox as you please. Then you save it, and voila.

Example for a sandbox link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:RoronoaxRobin/Yama Profile

I hope that helped.
Click to expand...
Thanks! And It really did help!
 
 
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KingTempest said:
Adding on for Usopp's dura at Skypiea - Enies Lobby.

Credits to Reddit Respect Threads for Usopp
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I updated Usopp's Dura.

Still uncertain about the Impact Dial think since it ignore durability and its only AP was around 8-A at best. Also uncertain about the Jabra situation, but everything else seems fine
 
KobsterHope07 said:
I updated Usopp's Dura.

Still uncertain about the Impact Dial think since it ignore durability and its only AP was around 8-A at best. Also uncertain about the Jabra situation, but everything else seems fine
Click to expand...
It's all good, thanks

Adding on to that

A combined attack from Usopp and Franky harmed Oars.

0475-004.png
KxUTDwm.png
0475-006.png
0475-008.png


Might work for half the AP each.

For those who harmed a Pacifista.

Chopper made him bleed in Arm Point
0510-010.png
 
KobsterHope07 said:
I guess for the Usopp and Franky part.

Already have the Chopper Arm Point already
Click to expand...
Thanks

Also, in my opinion, Brook should fully scale/relatively scale to Ryuma in AP
Credits to Brook's respect thread on reddit
He blocks a number of his attacks, matches him several times, etc.

Also, he one shot Tararan, who took several hits from Franky.



Sorry for the rapid fire scaling ideas, I just dislike "possiblies" with a passion
 
What do you need evaluated exactly?
 
Damage3245 said:
I think so.

For the moment, the first part of that scaling document "The 7-C’s like Skypeia Nami’s Durability are scaled 1/10 weaker that Enel’s Calc due to enduring the knockback of an Impact Dial which is 10x weaker than the Reject Dial that Wyper uses (24.366 Kilotons)" has been rejected so far.
Click to expand...
Personally I disagree with impact/reject dial being rejected.

The purpose of the impact dial is to shoot out energy
0257-005.png



Kobster disagreed because it was used as dura neg, but it can also have AP behind it, which people to take
 
Damage3245 said:
@KingTempest; it's not the nature of it being AP or not that has been rejected, but it scaling to Enel's Moon calc.
Click to expand...
Oh ok nevermind, I forgot about that.

They'd just scale to where Luffy and the others during Alabasta scale to then (23.506 Kilotons) and the reject dial would scale to 10x above that
 
I'm working on implementing Kobster's doc into my sandbox. I had a question.

Would we scale Wyper and the stronger tier characters to 10x the value they scale to during Alabasta?

Shura hurt Alabasta Luffy and Sanji with an Impact Dial who scale to 23.506 Kilotons.

The Reject Dial has at least 2 statements of being 10x superior to the Reject Dial, or 235.06 Kilotons.

Wyper can take 3 rejects iirc. Luffy hurt him and others scale to that.

Could we use that for scaling? It's consistent, as Enel scales to 243.663292122 Kilotons, so it's supported.
 
That'd be some messed up scaling.

Sanji's and Luffy's ratings are what determine the Impact Dial to be 23.506 Kilotons.

But now Luffy and Sanji, among others, will be scaling to 235.06 Kilotons via Wyper?

There's evidently a problem here somewhere.
 
Damage3245 said:
That'd be some messed up scaling.

Sanji's and Luffy's ratings are what determine the Impact Dial to be 23.506 Kilotons.

But now Luffy and Sanji, among others, will be scaling to 235.06 Kilotons via Wyper?

There's evidently a problem here somewhere.
Click to expand...
Skypiea Luffy and Sanji scale to 235.06 Kilotons via Wyper, who scales to the Reject Dial, which scales to 10x the value of the Impact Dial which hurt Alabasta Luffy and Sanji.

They scale above different keys.
 
KingTempest said:
Skypiea Luffy and Sanji scale to 235.06 Kilotons via Wyper, who scales to the Reject Dial, which scales to 10x the value of the Impact Dial which hurt Alabasta Luffy and Sanji.

They scale above different keys.
Click to expand...
Except it wasn't Alabasta Luffy and Sanji that was hurt. It was Luffy and Sanji on Skypeia.

I refuse to accept a scaling explanation of "Sanji was 23.5 Kilotons when he was hit by the Impact Dial, then his durability increased off-screen to 235 Kilotons the next chapter".

EDIT: To be honest, I'm not entirely confident of them scaling to the value of the explosion that Pell survived either in Alabasta.
 
Damage3245 said:
Except it wasn't Alabasta Luffy and Sanji that was hurt. It was Luffy and Sanji on Skypeia.
Click to expand...
Them landing on Skypiea doesn't start their Skypiea keys.
They got stronger over time during Skypiea, which is why they first go from struggling with the casual priests to defeating their leader.
Damage3245 said:
I refuse to accept a scaling explanation of "Sanji was 23.5 Kilotons when he was hit by the Impact Dial, then his durability increased off-screen to 235 Kilotons the next chapter".
Click to expand...
He got hurt by the whiny impact dial and got blood drawn.
Later he took a hit from Enel.

Same with Usopp who took several hits from Enel.

Same with Luffy who took several hits from Enel.
Damage3245 said:
EDIT: To be honest, I'm not entirely confident of them scaling to the value of the explosion that Pell survived either in Alabasta.
Click to expand...
I'm not discussing this topic again. We've already discussed this, settled it, retackled it, and finished it several times.
 
Okay, I'll drop the Pell topic but this issue regarding the scaling in Skypeia is a bigger issue.

Taking hits from Enel does not mean they're taking Enel's full power (so far as his lightning is concerned). They did not randomly get a ten times multiplier to their stats just because it would help us out with scaling.

To say that at one moment they're equal to the Impact Dial, then at another moment they're equal to the ten-times-stronger Reject Dial is just a plain inconsistency.

I think there should be a much better way of scaling than trying to excuse it by saying "They got more durable... somehow.".

I think it would be better if we just scaled Wyper to the El Thor he survived, and downscale the Reject Dials from there. Even if their end result ends up being lower than what Luffy and Sanji scale to, the amount of damage that the Impact Dials did to them is not that significant anyway. It can be weaker than them and still draw a small amount of blood.
 
Antvasima said:
Damage seems to make more sense to me above. My apologies.
Click to expand...
How?
Everything he said was opinionated and/or never happened.

Damage3245 said:
Taking hits from Enel does not mean they're taking Enel's full power (so far as his lightning is concerned). They did not randomly get a ten times multiplier to their stats just because it would help us out with scaling.
Click to expand...
Did I say that? No. Don't strawman me.

I said them going that high is consistent for Enel's rating, to show there's a value around there where they scale.

You're the only person in the world who sees somebody take several hits from a character and think the AP of the attacks they took (some were even dura neg since they hit the heart) are 1/10th of a regular attack from the person hitting them.
Damage3245 said:
To say that at one moment they're equal to the Impact Dial, then at another moment they're equal to the ten-times-stronger Reject Dial is just a plain inconsistency.
Click to expand...
Can you explain how come the same thing happened to Luffy in every other arc?

We scale BOS Luffy to Multi City Block, out of nowhere he's Town Level. You disagree with that too?
Luffy went from Town to Small City in an arc, you disagree with that too?

You don't have a single reason to disagree.
They have consistent feats of scaling higher and you disagree for no reason.
Damage3245 said:
I think there should be a much better way of scaling than trying to excuse it by saying "They got more durable... somehow.".

I think it would be better if we just scaled Wyper to the El Thor he survived, and downscale the Reject Dials from there.
Click to expand...
Yeah no, you have no valid reason on why it's better.

So downscale the impact dials to around 1/10th of the value where Alabasta Luffy and Sanji scale for no reason because you don't like it.
Damage3245 said:
Even if their end result ends up being lower than what Luffy and Sanji scale to, the amount of damage that the Impact Dials did to them is not that significant anyway. It can be weaker than them and still draw a small amount of blood.
Click to expand...
That's a LIE, Luffy was incapacitated and they both called Satori strong because of it, and Satori thought Sanji was dead after a second hit from it.

You blatantly just said some bs that didn't happen.

@Antvasima please don't agree with "I don't think"s. Damage had no arguments, he just threw a bunch of Incredulous Arguments from disbelief.

Do you have an actual argument? Or do you have more numbers to put out to say "this is a lot, I don't agree".

If I sound rude, I apologize, but all I'm reading is incredulous arguments because the opponent doesn't like what they see.
 
@KingTempest; you don't have to get defensive. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.

Yeah no, you have no valid reason on why it's better.
Click to expand...

What's the valid reason for why you're saying Sanji and Luffy got a 10x multiplier because it suits your scaling?

That's a LIE, Luffy was incapacitated and they both called Satori strong because of it, and Satori thought Sanji was dead after a second hit from it.
You blatantly just said some bs that didn't happen.
Click to expand...

There's no need for accusations of lying Tempest.

The Dials do a lot more internal damage than external damage from the force, which is how even Luffy can be taking damage from them. But in terms of the damage to their actual body, there's not a lot of visible damage.

If I sound rude, I apologize, but all I'm reading is incredulous arguments because the opponent doesn't like what they see.
Click to expand...

You do sound very rude and heated up Tempest, and I advise you back off and settle down before continuing because you're starting to get like this frequently on One Piece threads.
 
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