You shouldn't, it makes perfect sense in the story.
Shin was terrified of Babidi's minions, but even Gohan, who was in base form the entire time until fighting Dabura, wasn't afraid of Pui-Pui in the slightest. Gohan's power also stagnated since he was a boy, meaning that while he is stronger than Cell Games SSJ Goku with SSJ, Gohan isn't that overwhelmingly stronger than Goku, as Goku fought well with Perfect Cell who was using a significant portion of his full power.
I will reply to asura in a bit. However this is so wrong I have to reply here.
No it wouldn't. All Supreme Kais can kill 100% Frieza in one blow. That is 4-C straight up
Then all it means that Pui-Pui > Piccolo as well. There's nothing contradictory here, especially since you wrongly assume Shin would be Low 4-C for no reason
While this is true, Shin is also < Pui Pui < Base Gohan <<<<< Cell Games SSJ Goku < Cell Games SSJ Gohan. Shin was terrified of Pui-Pui, but even Base Gohan wasn't scared in the slightest
I've honestly lost track. I am just waiting for ByAsura to finish his AP blog at this point. I can take a look at that when it is close to being done.
Cell was actually impressed with Goku's power. Saying that Goku is the only one who could give Cell a run for his money (if only slightly). Shin being = SSJ Goku would make Cell Games SSJ Goku less than 1/50th of Perfect Cell's power, which isn't anything to speak of
Cell did held back sure, but Cell also said Goku was a very good fighter and for the first time since becoming Perfect he actually enjoyed a battle
Okay. Thank you for helping out.
While it's true that buu doesn't always increase his strength with absorptions, I believe the only time where that isn't the case is grand supreme kai, so it's safe so discard him as an outlier, as buu absorbing other pure hearted and kind individuals like gohan does not hinder his strength. So I believe it's still fair to say that he adds the power of those he absorbs onto himself. ( another example where this isn't the case is evil buu absorbing fat buu which isn't a linear increase at all, however this is also another outlier as majin buu's forms are kinda weird.)
It's never outright stated but every single time it's used, the fusions base was always superior to the fusers at their strongest.
Yeah it's consistent in the show and doesn't contradict anything however the wiki is very strict with multipliers especially in the case of dragon ball so that's why I'm asking.
Yes it would considering base gohan is small star level scaling 50x down his SSJ self who scales to the large star levels.
You realize that this would mean Gohan will be upgraded right?
Gohan didn't feel the need to. If Pui-Pui was that strong Gohan would need SSJ, then Gohan would comment about his power. Even Gohan treats him as nothing more than a joke
They weren't gonna help him like they didn't do it against Dabura. If Gohan would've won the first round, then it'd be Gohan's fight, and they'll not interfere
Gohan would still have two keys regardless of where he'd be below or above Shin
Gohan literally said nothing about pui pui, I don't know where you're getting this. There's literally nothing that indicates that gohan can beat pui pui in base in the entire 2 chapters he was alive in. Gohan doesn't need to comment on his power for him to be that strong. There is a severe lack of evidence supporting this.
Goku was literally drained and he used all his power on Cell. No wonder he got beated. He obviously lost a lot of power after using all of it on Cell during their battle. Goku himself admits that he used all of their powers. Besides, the Cell Jrs. scale to Vegeta at least, not to Piccolo, as Cell noted that only Trunks and Vegeta held their own against themGohan literally said nothing about pui pui, I don't know where you're getting this. There's literally nothing that indicates that gohan can beat pui pui in base in the entire 2 chapters he was alive in. Gohan doesn't need to comment on his power for him to be that strong. There is a severe lack of evidence supporting this.
This scaling also contradicts the cell saga, worn out Goku was getting fondled by a cell jr who scales to cell saga piccolo who base gohan apparently far far far surpasses.
You're basically trying to claim Goku was worn out by more than 50x which is asinine.
You still have no proof that base gohan > pui pui.
They have comparable scaling chains (shin is actually bigger) except for the 2x multiplier and the guide seems to believe they're equal even if it uses bad logic. I think it's fine to scale them to each other tbh.
100% Goku = 2 * 50% Goku >>> SSJ Grade 3 Trunks >>> Suppressed Perfect Cell (though inferior in speed) >> SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta >= Cell Games Piccolo
I pretty much did. That's why we're in this mess.
Of course it doesn't hinder it, but the problem is more so that it's just weird overall.
That like I said, a very specific selection of fusions.
There is no rival boost except in the guide and anime, that's the problem.
I'll have to get more input.
They really don't.
Buutenks is really the only important one, if we agree that he's linear increase then that's enough.
That's all of them bro.
It's stated in the manga no? But I admit that it can be interpreted in a different way however it's not like the guide pulled something completely out of it's butt.
Darkmdjdjh said he had some issues with it but he didn't elaborate, perhaps we should ask.
That's an inaccurate scaling chain.
Did you calculate kid buu's feat like I suggested yet?
I mean the boost for God and Blue isn't all that massive after they train with Whis and Beerus. On this point, Super Saiyan Blue Vegito was a match for Fusion Zamasu, whereas individual Super Saiyan Blues were able to fend him off together. It absolutely does not make sense that base Vegito in DBS is stronger than Super Saiyan Blues.
The highest forms Potara Fusions have had and confirmably surpassed is Super Saiyan 3, so it makes a huge difference.
That still doesn't justify it.
It's probably pulled from the anime, in which a boost is given that the manga doesn't even state. If they were only going by the manga, they definitely did, just like the Dabura logic.
According to what? The world was in a state of peace, and it's not like we know Piccolo had any training partners to massively amplify his strength; Gohan didn't train, Future Trunks was in the future, Goten and Trunks were either at home or training with their parents, Vegeta was training but not really fighting and was only stated to be with Trunks, Krillin was focusing on his family life, and the others are far too weak to assist Piccolo.
What feat?
It is though, it's unquantifiable however.
Well vegito exists but there is no difmrect confirmation that he's above SSBs in base because we never see him fight in base. However, he is that strong in the manga, he deletes half of merged zamasu in base.
Why not though? That seems like a pretty extreme example and I can't answer it since this is never confirmed, but it's something that is strangely consistent in the show.
I swear the elder kai says, "it doesn't hurt that they live to out do each other".
Piccolo isn't like all the others you mentioned who have actual lives outside of fighting. All piccolo ever does is train, meditate and train and that's it. And considering he got unbelievably strong from 1 year training alone (17 level to cell jr. Level), he must've gotten much stronger in 7 years. Look at vegeta, who also trains all the time but also has a life and family outside of training and look how strong he got.
Ah I was talking to glowing rat. The kid buu universe life wiping speed feat.
Piccolo wasn't comparable to a Cell Jr. . Only Vegeta and Trunks were able to fight them, with the rest being beated down, so your basis for that is false. Piccolo is at best comparable to Grade 2 Vegeta the first time he used the chamber
Fusion Zamasu powers up multiple times against Vegito, but each power up doesn't increase his power much. That's because he's falling apart. Also, I doubt this power up increases Fusion Zamasu's strength as much as the Super Saiyan Blue multiplier itself.
If he were stronger, he wouldn't even need to go Blue. Super Saiyan alone would cover that gap.
I don't see how it's an extreme example. If your logic is true, it should be the case.
Which isn't an amp.
The HTC isn't just a place to train for a greater time, it's also a hell hole with amplified gravity and fluctuating temperature.
I'm not saying he's far inferior, just that he's not equal.
Cell is basing that information off their base forms, and has felt the power of both their base and Super Saiyan forms. He's just saying they got stronger, not that they eclipsed a certain frontier.
Nah that divine thunder amp was next level built different. It's clearly shown to be capable of fighting a blue fusion.
That's true, but he was still stronger. SSB vegito not one shot vaporizing zamasu on the spot is plot-induced stupidity.
Well we can't confirm nor deny it so I guess the fusion would be superior as every other time fusion is used, the fusion's base is stronger.
Could be, or could not be. The guide seems to believe it is, and it's not from the anime, that's why I think the guide is usable.
10x gravity is literally like nothing for these characters. Temperature is okay but they are able to survive much harsher conditions than this normally, and 7 years more than makes up for this.
Fair. cells statement also supports this, piccolo <= Cell jr.
They are stronger because vegeta and trunks are opting to use their standard SSJ forms over their grade 2 states which means they reached the level they are at before, and can sacrifice the extra power boost of grade 2 for more stamina like how they saw goku and gohan did. They are also matching grade 2 level cell jr.
I forgot about trunks, I guess Goku's scaling is bigger then.
Which is just circular reasoning at this point, and isn't remotely supported by the anime.
Or, and hear me out, it's not always the case.
Which is only for a specific selection of forms.
I still say the guide is complete BS, and it frequently makes bs assumptions.
If Piccolo is completely accustomed to the HTC, I don't see regular training doing that much for him because training is an upwards curve, not a flat plane. Also, if we go by a time in Super that's 4 years after the Buu Saga, he's only about as strong as Base Gohan (while unweighted, mind you) after he'd gotten weaker than his Buu Saga self.
Goku himself says that regular Super Saiyan is better, and Vegeta knows this.
When's it stated they were Grade 2-level?
I don't think stuff like this should be used to claim that any character is two times stronger. You can channel more energy with one arm also, using one doesn't necessarily mean you're using half of your power.
I don't even recall zamasu getting amps after the lightning one. Gowasu says they need an even greater power ti beat him than before, this comes right after kk20 goku kicked him around and right after vegito matched him.
What do you mean? Base vegito was clearly stronger. And the reason why ssb vegito not winning is PIS because directly after, 100% blue Goku matches zamasu.
What do you mean man? What form doesn't adhere to this?
If it's in the guide then the dudes writing must have believed in it. If it'a not blatantly false or contradicts the source material then it should be fine.
True.
Wait, you're right. Why didn't they just go grade 2 and win? So then why do they scale to their grade 2 forms in regular SSJ?
I thought it was because vegeta and trunks are using SSJ instead of grade 2.
I was misremembering the power weighted thing. But, Goku Black was getting amped in battles, and FZ has the same power. So I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm not saying it isn't stronger, I'm saying PIS just sounds like an excuse.
What other form aside from SS1, 2 and 3 does adhere to this? We shouldn't just automatically assume everything does adhere to this, especially if it's unveiled potential.
That's a mistranslation. Gohan meant his current best.
They don't. They just have the same tier.
Well zamasu did get amped once and that was the lightning of justice amp thing which gave him a blue level amp.
I'm talking about the manga, base vegito is stronger in the manga because he casually destroyed half of zamasu's body in base.
Kale's berserker form and SSB. base Kefla claps SSG Goku who casually stomps both of the girls combined. And base gogeta performed way better against broly than both SSB Goku and Vegeta.
Gotta downgrade gohan and tagoma now. Shit, piccolo is getting disrespected but I still stand with how piccolo would be much stronger than he was in the cell saga.
My bad, I meamt why do they scale to large star level? The justification is that they fought cell jrs, and the cell jrs justification is that they fought vegeta piccolo and trunks. That's why I thought their SSJ forms surpassed their G2 which is why they're using them.
