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Its still evidence that speed does not always scale linearly with battle power.
1. Outlier, and also something exclusive to SSJ1 Grade 3.
2. If this is the case, then why do characters like Frieza, Kale, and Broly, all become faster when they're essentially doing the same thing as SSJ Grade 3, which is powering up and increasing their mass? Broly and Kale especially because they gain more muscle and more height.
 
We should get rid of Super Saiyan multipliers if we are not going to use the Great Ape ones. They function identically.
Hard disagree, SSJ1 has a hard multiplier that has actual publication within media and clearly shows speed amps to the point where he ends up blitzing Frieza.
 
We should get rid of Super Saiyan multipliers if we are not going to use the Great Ape ones. They function identically.
Super Saiyan multipliers have a lot more evidence to scale speed and scale off a directly stated multiplier in the manga itself, so getting rid of it will be rough for you. But go ahead, no one is stopping you.
You could also make a CRT on Oozaru Multipliers and use them
 
It's weird that your mentality were to:
"Do a CRT to remove that one multiplier because the one I use is not accepted"
instead of
"Do a CRT so the multiplier I use is accepted"
The latter seems like a much better option since you think Oozaru Multipliers are just as reliable as SSJ ones, which are accepted currently.
 
Said numbers are not linear, still.

Therefore 10x BP is not 10x stronger, faster and more durable. Can we move on?
We know that.
And actually 10×BP is 10x stronger.
when goku got into SSj, he was 50 time stronger, causing his power levelocity to get raised from 3.000.000 to 150.000.000, even whe he uses his Kaioken, his power level Increases either two times, three times, four times, 10 times, or 20 times depending on the kaioken.
 
We know that.
And actually 10×BP is 10x stronger.
when goku got into SSj, he was 50 time stronger, causing his power levelocity to get raised from 3.000.000 to 150.000.000, even whe he uses his Kaioken, his power level Increases either two times, three times, four times, 10 times, or 20 times depending on the kaioken.
Oh well, make a CRT on it then. That's not my problem. Pretty sure this causes MULTIPLE problems due to rule of three.
The only reason why they "aren't linear", is becasue feats are >>>> BP number values
I really don't give two ***** about the reason why they aren't linear, the fact is, they are not. If you don't agree with it, fight the verse supporters/opponents about it
 
Oh well, make a CRT on it then. That's not my problem. Pretty sure this causes MULTIPLE problems due to rule of three.

I really don't give two ***** about the reason why they aren't linear, the fact is, they are not. If you don't agree with it, fight the verse supporters/opponents about it
Uhh wha- we use them to know who's stronger than who, to support the KK and SSj multiplier, we don't use them to say "well raditz is 1.5 stronger because has 1.500 pl" we literally just do "Raditz has a power level thats higher than goku and piccolo, thus he is strong than them".
 
Uhh wha- we use them to know who's stronger than who, to support the KK and SSj multiplier, we don't use them to say "well raditz is 1.5 stronger because has 1.500 pl" we literally just do "Raditz has a power level thats higher than goku and piccolo, thus he is strong than them".
..................? Yes, that's what I'm saying, are you strawmanning me? Battle Power is not linear, therefore 10x battle power shouldn't allow for a 10x power/speed increase. That's the end of the argument
 
..................? Yes, that's what I'm saying, are you strawmanning me? Battle Power is not linear, therefore 10x battle power shouldn't allow for a 10x power/speed increase. That's the end of the argument
But..it is? Goku got stronger 10x via kk10 so was his pl, goku got stronger 50x via ssj so was his power level
 
The only times where power levels doesn't increase linearly is because there are also feats for the higher power level that makes the gap more than the increase would suggest. Otherwise it is linear, as shown with kaioken and SSJ
 
But..it is? Goku got stronger 10x via kk10 so was his pl, goku got stronger 50x via ssj so was his power level
The only times where power levels doesn't increase linearly is because there are also feats for the higher power level that makes the gap more than the increase would suggest. Otherwise it is linear, as shown with kaioken and SSJ
What part of "we don't do that" you don't understand? We literally don't use Oozaru's Multiplier because of that.


If you got a problem with it, and have enough evidence, just make a CRT. Leave me alone, I'm just stating how things are now, if you have enough evidence I will support you.
 
What part of "we don't do that" you don't understand? We literally don't use Oozaru's Multiplier because of that.


If you got a problem with it, and have enough evidence, just make a CRT. Leave me alone, I'm just stating how things are now, if you have enough evidence I will support you.
But..we do tho, literally we do that
 
Holy, what happened when I was gone?
Anyway, pokemon man, your weight argument is entirely head canon, it was never stated or even implied that great ape is slower because it's big. That only ever applied to ssj grade 3.
 
Holy, what happened when I was gone?
Anyway, pokemon man, your weight argument is entirely head canon, it was never stated or even implied that great ape is slower because it's big. That only ever applied to ssj grade 3.
Huuuh, yeaaah, I concede.

Still
, if Vegeta said "Battle Power", then it's not treated linearly here, so 10x battle power is not necessarily 10x faster.
I mean, first, you called me Pokemon Man, so get those cheeks ready for some ass whopping boi

Second, if you gon' comment on a debate, at least read it until the end. I'm anything but unreasonable.
 
I mean, first, you called me Pokemon Man, so get those cheeks ready for some ass whopping boi

Second, if you gon' comment on a debate, at least read it until the end. I'm anything but unreasonable.
Sorry I can't read. Anyway, battle power at this point in the story is linear.
 
Guys the CRT is severely derailed. Can we get back on topic?

And by that I mean the topic in the OP. Can someone summarize which arguments from the OP was accepted and what needs to be changed?
 
Guys the CRT is severely derailed. Can we get back on topic?

And by that I mean the topic in the OP. Can someone summarize which arguments from the OP was accepted and what needs to be changed?
What is accepted is androids scaling, SSJ G4 scaling and shin scaling. Nobody talked about gotenks' scaling yet, I am still waiting on your input for that. Ginyu scaling was derailed.
 
Bump.
When gotenks scaling is reviewed, I will write a blog about all the profiles that will change and how they will change because the changes are pretty drastic and there are a lot of profiles.
 
What are the reasons for considering Gotenks Post-Training base to be superior to his former self in Ssj?
It's in the OP. Piccolo thought that gotenks only stands a chance against buu in super saiyan so he didn't know why they fusing in base, but when he sensed gotenks power post ROSAT, he was so impressed he thought gotenks stood a chance even in base.
 
I am a little busy. @DarkDragonMedeus what is your view on Gotenks scaling thing and other stuff that hasn't been discussed?
 
I'm not entirely certain, I was okay with the part of base Gotenks being possibly above Majin Vegeta, but if "They later grew and now a base Gotenks post training is stronger than a pre training SSJ Gotenks" is also a thing. That's basically creating yet another 50x multiplier for AP and speed. And I can understand people getting tired of stacking multipliers. Though, the former practice is similar to what others did to Basil among other Super underdogs which I have heard also raised skepticism on your end iirc. Although, Gotenks still had other statements about being possibly able to actually beat Fat Buu if he didn't goof off in the end. So he's actually above Fat Buu in base according to some.

But the Piccolo's reaction to Gotenks also seemed pretty much like it made sense. He was impressed by how much they both grew in less than 6 hours without him to guide them. Then again, going from thinking he couldn't beat him without SSJ, to thinking they might stand a chance without it. Then later needing to go SSJ3 to be evenly matched also appears to create other stuff that look like loopholes.

But I need more time to give my points because I still believe Goku and Vegeta having stronger base forms than Shin still stands. As with Gohan post Z Sword practice at the very least.
 
I'm not entirely certain, I was okay with the part of base Gotenks being possibly above Majin Vegeta, but if "They later grew and now a base Gotenks post training is stronger than a pre training SSJ Gotenks" is also a thing. That's basically creating yet another 50x multiplier for AP and speed. And I can understand people getting tired of stacking multipliers. Though, the former practice is similar to what others did to Basil among other Super underdogs which I have heard also raised skepticism on your end iirc. Although, Gotenks still had other statements about being possibly able to actually beat Fat Buu if he didn't goof off in the end. So he's actually above Fat Buu in base according to some.

But the Piccolo's reaction to Gotenks also seemed pretty much like it made sense. He was impressed by how much they both grew in less than 6 hours without him to guide them. Then again, going from thinking he couldn't beat him without SSJ, to thinking they might stand a chance without it. Then later needing to go SSJ3 to be evenly matched also appears to create other stuff that look like loopholes.

But I need more time to give my points because I still believe Goku and Vegeta having stronger base forms than Shin still stands. As with Gohan post Z Sword practice at the very least.
Piccolo was basing majin buu's power when he was still fat and comparing it to gotenks, that's why he thought base gotenks could beat buu despite buu requiring SSJ3 to even match as he'd gotten strong after transforming.
To simplfy the scaling.
Solar system = SPC < SSJ2 gohan < SSJ2 vegeta < SSJ2 Goku < base gotenks <<< SSJ3 Goku < SSJ Gotenks < Post ROSAT base Gotenks <<< SSJ3 Gotenks.
There's a 2x multiplier from spc to gohan, a 50x multiplier between gotenks and SSJ gotenks and another 50x from rosat gotenks to ssj rosat gotenks.
This doesn't contradict the scaling and is actually fine because base gotenks is still weaker than goku but SSJ Gotenks in his first appearance surpassed SSJ3 Goku.
 
I agree with Gotenks' scaling, tbh. The scene was basically:


Pre-Training SSJ Gotenks

Piccolo: You better scramble like an egg before you get folded like a omelet-​


Post-Training Base Gotenks
Piccolo: OH SHIT, HE GOT HANDS-

While his comparison of them to Majin Buu was greatly exaggerated, he still considered Post-HTC Base Gotenks stronger than Pre-HTC SSJ Gotenks.
 
Pre-Training SSJ Gotenks

Piccolo: You better scramble like an egg before you get folded like a omelet-​

BlueFirsthandFreshwatereel-max-1mb.gif
 
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