Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,853
- 8,708
We should get rid of Super Saiyan multipliers if we are not going to use the Great Ape ones. They function identically.
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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
- Start date
- Status
thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,831
- 1,752
1. Outlier, and also something exclusive to SSJ1 Grade 3.
2. If this is the case, then why do characters like Frieza, Kale, and Broly, all become faster when they're essentially doing the same thing as SSJ Grade 3, which is powering up and increasing their mass? Broly and Kale especially because they gain more muscle and more height.
- 32,835
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Hard disagree, SSJ1 has a hard multiplier that has actual publication within media and clearly shows speed amps to the point where he ends up blitzing Frieza.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Super Saiyan multipliers have a lot more evidence to scale speed and scale off a directly stated multiplier in the manga itself, so getting rid of it will be rough for you. But go ahead, no one is stopping you.
You could also make a CRT on Oozaru Multipliers and use them
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
It's weird that your mentality were to:
"Do a CRT to remove that one multiplier because the one I use is not accepted"
instead of
"Do a CRT so the multiplier I use is accepted"
The latter seems like a much better option since you think Oozaru Multipliers are just as reliable as SSJ ones, which are accepted currently.
"Do a CRT to remove that one multiplier because the one I use is not accepted"
instead of
"Do a CRT so the multiplier I use is accepted"
The latter seems like a much better option since you think Oozaru Multipliers are just as reliable as SSJ ones, which are accepted currently.
- 3,708
- 1,759
We know that.
And actually 10×BP is 10x stronger.
when goku got into SSj, he was 50 time stronger, causing his power levelocity to get raised from 3.000.000 to 150.000.000, even whe he uses his Kaioken, his power level Increases either two times, three times, four times, 10 times, or 20 times depending on the kaioken.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,438
- 4,342
The only reason why they "aren't linear", is becasue feats are >>>> BP number values
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Oh well, make a CRT on it then. That's not my problem. Pretty sure this causes MULTIPLE problems due to rule of three.
I really don't give two ***** about the reason why they aren't linear, the fact is, they are not. If you don't agree with it, fight the verse supporters/opponents about it
- 3,708
- 1,759
Uhh wha- we use them to know who's stronger than who, to support the KK and SSj multiplier, we don't use them to say "well raditz is 1.5 stronger because has 1.500 pl" we literally just do "Raditz has a power level thats higher than goku and piccolo, thus he is strong than them".
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
..................? Yes, that's what I'm saying, are you strawmanning me? Battle Power is not linear, therefore 10x battle power shouldn't allow for a 10x power/speed increase. That's the end of the argument
- 3,708
- 1,759
But..it is? Goku got stronger 10x via kk10 so was his pl, goku got stronger 50x via ssj so was his power level
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,438
- 4,342
The only times where power levels doesn't increase linearly is because there are also feats for the higher power level that makes the gap more than the increase would suggest. Otherwise it is linear, as shown with kaioken and SSJ
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
What part of "we don't do that" you don't understand? We literally don't use Oozaru's Multiplier because of that.
If you got a problem with it, and have enough evidence, just make a CRT. Leave me alone, I'm just stating how things are now, if you have enough evidence I will support you.
- 3,708
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But..we do tho, literally we do that
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Why don't you make a revision thread to add Oozaru's multiplier then, see what happens.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Why?
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
We didn't agree on using Vegeta's durability for the scaling, there were more convincing and consistent reasoning, though
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #379
Holy, what happened when I was gone?
Anyway, pokemon man, your weight argument is entirely head canon, it was never stated or even implied that great ape is slower because it's big. That only ever applied to ssj grade 3.
Anyway, pokemon man, your weight argument is entirely head canon, it was never stated or even implied that great ape is slower because it's big. That only ever applied to ssj grade 3.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
I mean, first, you called me Pokemon Man, so get those cheeks ready for some ass whopping boi
Second, if you gon' comment on a debate, at least read it until the end. I'm anything but unreasonable.
- 8,857
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- Thread starter
- #381
Sorry I can't read. Anyway, battle power at this point in the story is linear.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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The Wiki does not consider so, so that sounds like a "you" problem.
If you wish to scale Oozaru Vegeta to Ginyu, who is... far more than just 10x, go ahead.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Kinda forgot how this actually proves it wasn't really linear at that point.
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #385
What is accepted is androids scaling, SSJ G4 scaling and shin scaling. Nobody talked about gotenks' scaling yet, I am still waiting on your input for that. Ginyu scaling was derailed.
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #386
Bump.
When gotenks scaling is reviewed, I will write a blog about all the profiles that will change and how they will change because the changes are pretty drastic and there are a lot of profiles.
When gotenks scaling is reviewed, I will write a blog about all the profiles that will change and how they will change because the changes are pretty drastic and there are a lot of profiles.
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,290
- 3,125
What are the changes?
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #388
All of the profiles in dragon ball Z from the frieza saga to the buu saga will change, since there is also a new planet vegeta calculation. All of them.
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #389
Bump.
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,290
- 3,125
I think the only thing left is the Gotenks scaling
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #392
It's in the OP. Piccolo thought that gotenks only stands a chance against buu in super saiyan so he didn't know why they fusing in base, but when he sensed gotenks power post ROSAT, he was so impressed he thought gotenks stood a chance even in base.
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I am a little busy. @DarkDragonMedeus what is your view on Gotenks scaling thing and other stuff that hasn't been discussed?
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I'm not entirely certain, I was okay with the part of base Gotenks being possibly above Majin Vegeta, but if "They later grew and now a base Gotenks post training is stronger than a pre training SSJ Gotenks" is also a thing. That's basically creating yet another 50x multiplier for AP and speed. And I can understand people getting tired of stacking multipliers. Though, the former practice is similar to what others did to Basil among other Super underdogs which I have heard also raised skepticism on your end iirc. Although, Gotenks still had other statements about being possibly able to actually beat Fat Buu if he didn't goof off in the end. So he's actually above Fat Buu in base according to some.
But the Piccolo's reaction to Gotenks also seemed pretty much like it made sense. He was impressed by how much they both grew in less than 6 hours without him to guide them. Then again, going from thinking he couldn't beat him without SSJ, to thinking they might stand a chance without it. Then later needing to go SSJ3 to be evenly matched also appears to create other stuff that look like loopholes.
But I need more time to give my points because I still believe Goku and Vegeta having stronger base forms than Shin still stands. As with Gohan post Z Sword practice at the very least.
But the Piccolo's reaction to Gotenks also seemed pretty much like it made sense. He was impressed by how much they both grew in less than 6 hours without him to guide them. Then again, going from thinking he couldn't beat him without SSJ, to thinking they might stand a chance without it. Then later needing to go SSJ3 to be evenly matched also appears to create other stuff that look like loopholes.
But I need more time to give my points because I still believe Goku and Vegeta having stronger base forms than Shin still stands. As with Gohan post Z Sword practice at the very least.
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #395
Piccolo was basing majin buu's power when he was still fat and comparing it to gotenks, that's why he thought base gotenks could beat buu despite buu requiring SSJ3 to even match as he'd gotten strong after transforming.
To simplfy the scaling.
Solar system = SPC < SSJ2 gohan < SSJ2 vegeta < SSJ2 Goku < base gotenks <<< SSJ3 Goku < SSJ Gotenks < Post ROSAT base Gotenks <<< SSJ3 Gotenks.
There's a 2x multiplier from spc to gohan, a 50x multiplier between gotenks and SSJ gotenks and another 50x from rosat gotenks to ssj rosat gotenks.
This doesn't contradict the scaling and is actually fine because base gotenks is still weaker than goku but SSJ Gotenks in his first appearance surpassed SSJ3 Goku.
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #396
Bump
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
I agree with Gotenks' scaling, tbh. The scene was basically:
Pre-Training SSJ Gotenks
Post-Training Base Gotenks
Piccolo: OH SHIT, HE GOT HANDS-
While his comparison of them to Majin Buu was greatly exaggerated, he still considered Post-HTC Base Gotenks stronger than Pre-HTC SSJ Gotenks.
Pre-Training SSJ Gotenks
Piccolo: You better scramble like an egg before you get folded like a omelet-
Post-Training Base Gotenks
Piccolo: OH SHIT, HE GOT HANDS-
While his comparison of them to Majin Buu was greatly exaggerated, he still considered Post-HTC Base Gotenks stronger than Pre-HTC SSJ Gotenks.
- 8,857
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- Thread starter
- #398
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
- Status
