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I agree with this.
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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
- Start date
- Status
- 8,857
- 5,697
- Thread starter
- #403
Bump.
Hey @DarkDragonMedeus , I cleared your doubts about the scaling, so do you agree now or is there something else you wanna talk about? If gotenks scaling is fine then say if there is anything else in the OP you wanna comment on and then we can apply stuff.
Hey @DarkDragonMedeus , I cleared your doubts about the scaling, so do you agree now or is there something else you wanna talk about? If gotenks scaling is fine then say if there is anything else in the OP you wanna comment on and then we can apply stuff.
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I guess they make sense to me.
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- Thread starter
- #405
Alright, then this CRT has been accepted (with a few minor exceptions). You can now edit your explanation blog with all the changes and I'll take a look at it once you're done, then we can do the profiles.
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Just a little question, was the new value for Buu Saga SSJ Goku accepted for now? From what I've read about the CRT there wasn't so many objections about it.
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- Thread starter
- #407
Pretty much every main point in the CRT is accepted now. All that's left is to just edit the blog and the profiles. If you wanna make matches you should wait until the stuff is applied I think.
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I have work today, so I can't really edit my blog atm. Plus I would like to give my own detailed inputs on Adult Gohan; he has gotten 4 power level jumps throughout Buu saga and it is unknown if his comparisons to Teen Gohan where before and after his 1st. Zenkai Boost after Kabito healed him from Spopovich and Yamu extracting his energy, another Zenkai Boost after getting bodied by Buu and healed again by Kabito. Swinging the Z Sword a couple times and getting used to its weight. And the biggest one is clearly Old Kai's ritual amplification.
I don't need to explain where he lands after the 4th one. And not sure if it's before or after the 4th one where his base form is equal to base Teen, SSJ1 is equal to Teen SSJ1, but SSJ is well below Teen SSJ2. His 2nd one got a huge boost but full extent is unknown but he needed to go SSJ to pull out the Z Sword and thought it was a little heavy even with the form. His 3rd boost which was his Z Sword swinging should still put his new base form above Shin and on the level of Goku and Vegeta's base forms. It was already covered by the Pui Pui and Yakon comparisons how strong the full blooded saiyans are even in base forms, but I still think the details on Gohan's progression via Z sword at least post training shouldn't be ignored. Though, still going to need to re-evaluate Dabura's ratings in the blog and he's another on the list where SSJ forms would be 50x stronger than him for this part.
I don't need to explain where he lands after the 4th one. And not sure if it's before or after the 4th one where his base form is equal to base Teen, SSJ1 is equal to Teen SSJ1, but SSJ is well below Teen SSJ2. His 2nd one got a huge boost but full extent is unknown but he needed to go SSJ to pull out the Z Sword and thought it was a little heavy even with the form. His 3rd boost which was his Z Sword swinging should still put his new base form above Shin and on the level of Goku and Vegeta's base forms. It was already covered by the Pui Pui and Yakon comparisons how strong the full blooded saiyans are even in base forms, but I still think the details on Gohan's progression via Z sword at least post training shouldn't be ignored. Though, still going to need to re-evaluate Dabura's ratings in the blog and he's another on the list where SSJ forms would be 50x stronger than him for this part.
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We can try to edit the profiles for the new scaling and add a note on the verse page about the assorted scaling chains in relation to the blog. Although, I think someone could make an updated version of the blog using the scaling that was already accepted in this thread at least.
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- Thread starter
- #411
That's okay take your time, just tell me when you finish.
In the case of gohan, only 3 power boost are relevant for the scaling, the first is him getting clapped by buu, the second is him training with the Z sword and the third is the kai ritual.
At the beginning of the buu saga, his power did not increase or decrease from the cell saga, so his SSJ form is just as strong as it was when he was a child vs cell, and in this form he fought dabura.
Then after getting clapped by buu, he got his zenkai which puts him above shin because he was able to swing around the z sword in base which puts him above shin, and goku did the same, and after training with it he's able to swing it casually, so he should scale to base Goku too. And post ritual is self explanatory, solar system level.
Basically, beginning of buu saga: small star level, large star level as a SSJ ( just as strong as his cell saga self)
Post majin buu: large star level (lifted the z sword and stronger than shin, comparable to Goku) at least large star level as a SSJ (50x stronger than his base, comparable to ssj goku)
Post z sword: large star level (stronger than before) at least large star level as a SSJ (50x stronger than before, comparable to SSJ Goku)
Post ritual: solar system level with potential unleashed (beat buu's goofy ass)
Hope it's clear, if you got question ask.
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Quite a different question I know, but who is going to edit the profiles with the new scaling anyway?
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- Thread starter
- #413
Dunno. Maybe me. I just need dark dragon man to edit his blog first of all. Then we can work on the profiles.
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So the speed scaling is accepted? I just skimmed through this thread
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- Thread starter
- #415
All the main scaling is accepted, we just gotta get it applied.
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That's good, although, shouldn't we put the result of the speed calc next to the speed in the profiles?. I think it will make things easier when making VS matches.
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- Thread starter
- #417
DBZ don't have a feat, but it's already gonna be well explained in the blog. In super is when we get all the speed feats and supporting feats, by then we will probably have some kind of speed scaling blog for super in the manga since they didn't have one before as they didn't scale to a value.
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Imagine now everyone in the manga upscaling from BOG Shockwaves + Vegito's speed upscaling as a supporting.
They are going to be insanely fast now.
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- Thread starter
- #420
This is a completely different scene.
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Bad example, it's more like Buu was commenting on Gohan's power being insufficient compared to his own. Plus Gohan was never "Down for the count" levels of injured.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,822
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A Saiyan's biological trait just ceasing to function is illogical... unless it is growing a tail-
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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They traded Accelerated Development for a much better Reactive Power Level while the fight goes on, so I'd say their biology just evolved.
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The manga isn't exactly a contradictory source as the saiyans's RPL is still backed up by Vegeta in granolah saga during his fight in this department and GT is a non-canon source that just supports the idea of zenkai boosts still being a thing with a direct statement from Goku and their biological acessments just evolving in general.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,822
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Future Trunks speculated as such after healing Vegeta and witnessing him getting stomped even harder than before by Goku Black—the same kind of scenario as the above Gohan/Buu example. Besides, Goku continued to get Zenkai out of the ass following this battle.
EDIT: It just hit me. Goku Black receiving Zenkai is proof that they could still do that.
BlastX
He/Him- 5,543
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In GT even after being to the brink of death during his firrdt fight with Baby Vegeta, after he faces with SS3 Baby comments he hasn't gotten stronger at all.
Also wasn't Black treated as a special case or something?
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Zenkai Boosts are a case-by-case thing, Goku didn't train that much when he faced Baby Vegeta from my memory and his power stagnated very much during that saga until he got SSJ4 (which is the same exact moment when he makes the statement), which would only imply that Saiyans getting this amp is a very ocasional thing depending on how much they practice their physical condition and biological process. Some Saiyans might even have more potential than others do, as an canon example you could think of DBS Broly adapting to SSJ Vegeta's power despite him getting overwhelmed beforehand.
Black isn't necessarily a special case, the only difference is that he gets stronger when he is further injured much by other opponents, which is backed up by himself.
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No because he was having a hard time even tracking Kaio-ken x3 Goku.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
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Vegeta doesn't even scale to Kaioken times 3 Goku, as that Goku stomped him before he used the Galick Gun
- 32,835
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Probably.
Problem is, the Lifting feats are kinda everywhere. Making it hard to gauge which feat to go with for which specific period.
- 1,639
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That would probably be accounted for a different thread tbh. Goku's LS wasn't updated very long ago.
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- Thread starter
- #435
Yes, but there is a big problem.
Dbz in feats is consistently in the tons ranges (class 5-class 50) of weight and dbs is consistently thousands of tons (class M). With multipliers, you can get dbz to class G and T (millions to billions of tons) and super from class P to class Y and easily higher (trillions to sextillions of tons). You see the problem here?
Anyway we should discuss this elsewhere so as to not derail this thread.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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In Chou, the only Class M feat is waaaay too outdated to be remotely usable.
- 8,857
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- Thread starter
- #437
Profiles blog but it's still a work in progress. Someone should review it though.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FluffyCreatureZ/Dragon_Ball_Z_power_scaling
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FluffyCreatureZ/Dragon_Ball_Z_power_scaling
- 6,632
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Don't forget about the Post Cell Saga Trunks scaling (basically Base Trunks scaling to 489 Tenatons and SSJ Trunks scaling above 1 FOE and Dabura and Perfect Cell scaling above that).
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Also, do we treat Buu's absorptions as linear or not?
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,206
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Since most agree that characters's statements about using only half their power would be apply to their speed too, everyone comparable or faster than Future Android 17 should be fully Massively FTL+, that also means that Buu Saga Vegeta and Goku should be Massively FTL+ in their Base.
Yeah, we may need to make another CRT for that.
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