Dragon Ball upgrades

[Antvasima]

We talked about upgrading Son Goku and Jire to High 3-A, due to shaking an infinite void in the latest Dragon Ball episodes, but the thread quickly turned too long and unmanageable, so it seemed best to move the discussion to staff only instead.

This would scale to the gods of destruction, who are of a similar level.

There was also talk of upgrading the Grand Priest to Low 2-C, but I am not sure whether the angels should get High 3-A, At least High 3-A, or Low 2-C.

Most of the staff members, including myself, seem to agree so far, but we haven't worked out where to place all of the characters, and with which justifications.

Again, this is a staff only thread, in order to keep it under control.

 

[The_Everlasting]

As I said on the last thread, I'd prefer to wait for everything with Jiren to finish first.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

imho it seems to be high 3-A for all honestly unlss the void shake we take it as low 2-C it really seems to be high 3-A due to it infintely stretching iirc. So high 3-A is what i see though like ever said waiting seems better

 

[Antvasima]

It has also been suggested that Goku's new form should get reactive evolution, due to growing stronger with each hit:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1004100

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

That also seems fine as well as precog (He knew how to dodge toppo's attacks without looking at them and was stated to have sharper hits the more he fights)

 

[Promestein]

That doesn't sound like precog.

 

[The_Everlasting]

The short, simplified version of this form/technique is that Goku's body automatically reacts to threats, regardless if he can see them coming or have the cognitive ability to avoid it. However, as it's not speed-based, Goku can still be blitzed by faster opponents.

No idea what that counts as.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

that wouldn't be precog? I mean he looked like he knew the attack would go just saying though if it isn't and just extreme instinct then alright

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Seems like Enhanced Senses maybe?

 

[Antvasima]

One of our regular members mentioned that Goku might be able to create black holes with his spirit bomb in a message to me. However, we tend to only count them as legitimate if they behave like real ones.

 

[Antoniofer]

It should be enhanced senses or related, precognition imply that he knows what the enemy would do, but here just react "naturally".

 

[Dark649]

His body moves on his own to react to attacks without even knowing their presence.

 

[Dark649]

Goku never created black holes with his spirit bomb, the explosion looked like one, but it wasn't.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

one this is staff and two we don't have enough proof yet for that

 

[Antvasima]

@Dark649

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Antoniofer]

Powerlisting Wiki rate it as "Auto-Reflexes", sub-power of "Autopilot", related to reflexes and intuitions; not sure how would be rated here.

 

[Antvasima]

We could just mention it as "instantaneous reflexes" in the powers & abilities section.

 

[Antvasima]

Here is an image that could be rendered for Goku's "Ultra Instinct" form: [1]

 

[Antvasima]

I have been told that it is called "Ultra Instinct Omen" in official cards:

http://dbz-dokkanbattle.wikia.com/wiki/Pulsation_of_a_New_Force_Goku_(Ultra_Instinct_%22Omen%22)

http://dbz-dokkanbattle.wikia.com/wiki/Sign_of_a_New_Form_Goku_(Ultra_Instinct_%22Omen%22)

 

[Antoniofer]

But "Ultra Instinct Omen" isn't a generic name, that how is refered in the respective verse. It can be added in his profile, but I though that we were looking for a common term ofthat power.

 

[FanofRPGs]

1. I hear Goku and Jiren shook an infinite void. Now IDK how to describe this, but aside from the obvious high 3-A upgrade (Woohoo, even I was starting to feel like Episode 12 was an outlier, DBS has proved me wrong luckily), wouldn't they have some form of void manipulation, in that they can affect the non-existence surrounding them instead of the matter or the time or the like?

2. For the instantaneous reactions things, I agree that it is not precog. In fact I think I will make a powers and abilities page for such an ability he gained, is that fine?

Overall, I am happy Goku is finally doing a feat more impressive than bullet wounds, and agree with the upgrades.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I too an glad that a new feat was done.

But then again, isn't this Dragon Ball in a nutshell? A feat is done, followed by a period with little feats, until eventually a new feat comes which blows the previous feat out of the water.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As for the new powers. We need to explain that he has "Automatic Reactions", meaning that he doesn't have to think to react, his body moves on its own.

And I could see "Limited Reactive Evolution" as well.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Mastery of Self-Movement: A technique learned from Whis. In this state, Goku's body is capable of subconsciously avoiding attacks, disregarding his own capability to react, allowing him to effectively multitask, thinking up strategies while his body fights for him, fully maximizing his offensive and defensive capabilities. As he doesn't need to think to fight, it also makes illusory techniques useless. However, as it doesn't increase his speed, much faster opponents would still be able to bypass it."

This is what I got so far.

 

[Antvasima]

I am probably fine with limited reactive evolution.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Now that Ever mentioned it... Whis was talking about Goku mastering speed and reactions waaaay back when.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://youtu.be/rP6WeHqk8Xw?t=141

Here. Can't find it in the actual show, though.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The technique also should be added to the Angels.

 

[The_Everlasting]

As for the AP descriptions...

"Shook the World of Void, which is infinite in size, while fighting Goku/Jiren"

That would go on Goku and Jiren's pages.

"Comparable to, if not slightly weaker than, Jiren"

That would be on all of the GoDs pages, as Whis said that Jiren is on the level of a GoD, but possibly above it.

 

[Dark649]

Jiren is the mortal that Whis mentioned.I also agree with Limited Reactive Evolution and the High 3-A upgrade.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So are we editing now? Or are we waiting? We know this is pretty much a set in stone upgrade. However, should we not wait for scaling and do it all in one fell swoop? Less we will have to deal with "High 3-A [insert chanracter name here]" threads every week.

We also know, there's going to be a new warrior appearing in the ToP that we haven't seen.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://youtu.be/18vUROD2q3Q?t=380

The Black Hole seems realistic enough.

 

[Dark649]

Goku Spirit Bomb never produced a Black Hole and even before, also that's an energy explosion as this is a true Black Hole. Also adding that he can resist a true black hole is dumb as he also cannot survive in space. Also by watching Z, Shin statements should be not reliable as he stated that Pui Pui was dangerous and etc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Dude, Shin's statements are reliable by Super. He's matured quite a bit since then. He thought Pui Pui was dangerous because he seriously underestimated the mortals, not because he actually thought Pui Pui was powerful.

And that energy implosion is blatantly a black hole. And can Goku STILL not survive in Space, really?

 

[Dark649]

Guess that Frieza and his species are resistant to Black Holes since he survived a spirit bomb that never produced a black hole upon exploding before. Base Goku also cannot travel in space.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Goku wasn't in Base when he survived the Black Hole so is moot.

Spirit Bomb couldn't produce a Black Hole back then. First time it happened.

 

[Dark649]

The normal users should stop to put a comment here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I disagree with the upgrade.
All the statements about shaking the whole void seem to have been made from IN UNIVERSE characters with limited abilities.

That's not a good argument....

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the insane Speed Feat Goku displayed, dodging Toppo's Justice Flash by walking.

 

[Dark649]

Black Holes generally don't explode and prior to that the Spirit Bomb suddendly became massive, through if that is confirmed to be a black hole, then i can agree.