Dragon Ball upgrades

[Dark649]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the insane Speed Feat Goku displayed, dodging Toppo's Justice Flash by walking.

Still MFTL+, also i'm curious why Shin said that Jiren is a greater threat than a being that became the universe itself and they had to call for Zen'o to stop him, but Beerus and Champa were more impressed by him.

 

[Golden_Void]

I shall weigh-in on this with a detailed post in a bit. :^)

 

[Dark649]

I'm not sure that the characters stating that Goku should an infinite realm are that RELIABLE.

This is a staff only thread, so i warn you to not post another comment here.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm going to be frank I don't think that this should be High 3-A.

By definition, you cannot shake "nothing". There is nothing to shake, so no energy is given. I know you're gonna pull "But it's fiction", but this could very well just be shaking what little matter there is inside this realm instead of shaking literal...nothing.

Never mind the fact that we jump the gun to High 3-A based on two not very matter-of-fact statements, when verses with 3 or more infinite statements were bluntly refused.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, there's actually more than nothing to be shaked in there, including the stadium and that thing that seems to be a sun. Regardles, I have disagreed before, but it my disagree was more general; I already made my consult, so no needs to bring it up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The World of Void is infinite-sized. It stretches forever. To shake all of it, you'd have to be shaking an infinite distance, which requires infinite energy.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Shaking the "sun" or Stadium isn't High 3-A.

The High 3-A rating would imply that infinite matter was shaken, yet there isn't...anything to shake there,

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I ninjad you.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And what is THERE to shake? Nothing. Again, this could as well be shaking the stadium and whatever there actually is there, not shaking infinite nothing.

Didn't we say that destroying this "world" before wouldn't be High 3-A because it's nothing at all? Why would shaking be different?

 

[RadicalMrR]

"Two not matter a fact statments"

Guess we should downgrade everyone at 3-A to 4-B because the same guy saying the universe is shaking here is the same guy from before.

 

[Dark649]

Radical Beerus and Goku were goint to turn the U7 Universe into a void.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that we could see that the universe was shaking AND it was done by someone already 3-A.

Infinite, endless, boundless, those are all words that are used as hyperboles more often than not. It IS more doubtable than the 3-A statement.

 

[FanofRPGs]

And what is THERE to shake? Nothing. Again, this could as well be shaking the stadium and whatever there actually is there, not shaking infinite nothing.
Didn't we say that destroying this "world" before wouldn't be High 3-A because it's nothing at all? Why would shaking be different?

Universal ranged void manipulation the

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And what is THERE to shake? Nothing. Again, this could as well be shaking the stadium and whatever there actually is there, not shaking infinite nothing.
Didn't we say that destroying this "world" before wouldn't be High 3-A because it's nothing at all? Why would shaking be different?

MAte.

The universe is like, 99,999999% empty space.

And look at the difference between busting A solar system * 2 and busting two solar-systems in an omnidirectional blast that encompasses the empty light-years in between.

IT doesn't matter if it is an infinite void, it's still infinite.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that our universe still has matter in it.

We don't have any confirmation that there is anything beyond the void to be shaken. It's explicitly a world of "nothing". Meaning that beyond the stadium there is nothing in there. Shaking that void won't be possible if there is nothing at an infinite distance of the stadium to be shaken.

Infinite x 0 =/= Infinite.

 

[The_Everlasting]

But how does one shake nothing.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Except that our universe still has matter in it.
We don't have any confirmation that there is anything beyond the void to be shaken. It's explicitly a world of "nothing". Meaning that beyond the stadium there is nothing in there. Shaking that void won't be possible if there is nothing at an infinite distance of the stadium to be shaken.

Infinite x 0 =/= Infinite.

Simple. They have universal ranged void manipulation

or... They are high 3-A...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Ah yes. Let's jump the gun to sudden Void hax with infinite range instead of assuming the far more reasonable option that they only shook the stadium @Fan

 

[Dark649]

I bet the writers did not thought about the stats results of these feats, the High 3-A stuff does not concern me, but the Low 2-C stuff is.....

 

[FanofRPGs]

Ah yes. Let's jump the gun to sudden Void hax with infinite range instead of assuming the far more reasonable option that they only shook the stadium @Fa

I am not being serious

Can I see the scan in question, I am hearing the entire realm was being shaken. If that's true, then "only shook the stadium" is wrong obviously. And if characters can't shake and affect a pure void, then why would we accept any other non-existence destruction feat in fiction?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I have my own problems with the Low 2-C stuff (Such as lumping Tier 2 Zamasu with the list of people that he fought, even though he had to Zen'o Nuke the universe to "fight" him), but I think that the High 3-A stuff is more concerning.

@Fan There IS nothing in that realm but the stadium to shake. We can't assume that they now can destroy nothingness because this feat was done through sheer power, not via hax.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Pretty sure they said the whole realm.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Said realm having pretty much nothing in it to shake. And aren't there things in this world beyond the stadium?

Still gotta say. To need infinite matter to shake in order to be High 3-A. Unless you want to argue that the supposed world of nothing has infinite matter, then this shouldn't be High 3-A.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well they shaked it. I can't say much more than that. It is pretty blatant. World of Void has nothing to shake,. They shaked nothingness. Pretty simple. No matter what they blatantly shake more than the stadium.

 

[Dark649]

I have my own problems with the Low 2-C stuff (Such as lumping Tier 2 Zamasu with the list of people that he fought, even though he had to Zen'o Nuke the universe to "fight" him), but I think that the High 3-A stuff is more concerning.

No. Shin implied that Jiren is a bigger threat than Infinite Zamasu, both Beerus and Whis were impressed by Jire while they were unimpressed by Infinite Zamasu.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They shake a world of nothingness.

Either you argue that they physics-defyingly shakes nothingness itself and that it somehows yields non-zero energy, or that they shake the finite amount of matter in that world.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Or they are High 3-A as we've been saying. They still shook an infinite realm.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Which, as I've said before, isn't something quantifiable unless there is matter to shake.

Also this place seems to be the void beyond the multiverse, not just a big universe with nothing in it. I really doubt that they could "destroy" the void beyond the multiverse. It isn't just a space-time continuum they can break. They need matter to affect.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, if the word of the void is indeed a void, it being infinite means that the energy required is infinite x 0. Which can't be determined unless the infinity is a higher/lower order compared to the 0

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

^ This.

 

[Dark649]

I think this should be closed and discussed later.

 

[Golden_Void]

No.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No.

They shook an infinite void. They are High 3-A. The insistance that they didn't is pure skepticism.

The World of Void is a dimension, even if it is a void. Unless you think that creating or destroying the World of Void wields 0 energy, then shaking it is also a feat. Goku and Jiren produced a quake across an infinite area. This requires infinite energy. Thus, High 3-A.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, when things around dragon ball are calmed.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Matt

Again, how can one shake nothingness? That results in infinity x 0, which is 0.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with the Everlasting.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Ever

The World of Void isn't nothingness. It just has nothing in it. It is a dimension, except that it has no edge, it goes on forever. For you to shake all of it you'd have to shake infinity.

Destroying our universe, even if it was completely empty, would also be a 3-A feat.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's a place devoid of time or space. That sure as hell is nothingness.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They say it is but it clearly isn't, right? If it has no time how can they measure time in it?

 

[Kaltias]

Nobody is saying that they didn't. Only that 0 x infinite (which is how you would calc shaking a infinite void) isn't quantifiable. Granted, that's assuming a pure, complete void. Shaking a "void" like outer space still requires energy due to the particles spread throughout it.