-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball upgrades
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
- Status
- 10,394
- 3,345
How do humans in Lightning Returns keep track of time if time has been destroyed?Matthew Schroeder said:
- 9,962
- 2,003
Actually, infinite*0 is indeterminated. But the point stay at hand, shaking infinite amount of nothing isn't quantificable.
- 15,407
- 5,717
Again you're shaking nothing.
You can't claim that it's a dimension. It's explicitly outside the multiverse and lacks space-time. It's not just a dimension you can shake.
You can't claim that it's a dimension. It's explicitly outside the multiverse and lacks space-time. It's not just a dimension you can shake.
- 33,405
- 8,417
Didn't we accept the World of Void not being a true void, but just a realm infinite of size? I may be misremembering.
- 32,343
- 20,268
You are not shaking nothing.Saikou The Lewd King said:
You are shaking an infinite dimension. It being a void actually makes the feat more impressive.
Also, nobody accepted the World of Void being devoid of space and time before, but now you are bringing that up to prevent characters from being upgraded?
Even if it is empty, you need energy to propagate a quake through a distance.
Through an infinite distance, you need infinite energy.
It's that simple.
- 33,405
- 8,417
Five Admins disagree?
- 32,343
- 20,268
I see no admin disagreeing. At best some Discussion Moderators. And in the non Staff-only thread the support was overwhelming as well.
And saying that we need to close this because a Admin disagrees is appeal to authority.
And saying that we need to close this because a Admin disagrees is appeal to authority.
- 32,343
- 20,268
And the whole disagreeing is based on an incorrect assessment so it is null and void.
- 32,343
- 20,268
Also, Nonexistence Erasure exists. As well as we actually do rate characters in certain tiers for creating voids or destroying voids.
It's utterly hypocritical to suddenly bring up the argument of "A void is nothing so it wields nothing" for Dragon Ball when all other examples are accepted.
It's utterly hypocritical to suddenly bring up the argument of "A void is nothing so it wields nothing" for Dragon Ball when all other examples are accepted.
- 32,343
- 20,268
>Infinite Energy does not existDark649 said:
>Yet both Zamasu and Zeno are Tier 2 which makes them more than infinite energy by our standards.
I am not guessing. I am making the most logical, basic assumption. Which the thread was making before people started overthinking things.
Appealing to the quality of Dragon Ball Super (Bizarrely, after some of the best episodes in all of Dragon Ball just aired) is meaningless.
It matters not weather or not the writers reached such implication. The feat is there and we have to analyze it.
- 18,800
- 6,002
I agree with Matt here, whether the void has nothing in it or not, energy had to be spread throughout an infinite distance which requires infinite energy. This is pretty clear cut imo.
- 10,394
- 3,345
By the by, how do we actually know the World of Void being infinite isn't hyperbole?
- 8,675
- 5,556
I also agree with Matt.
- 32,343
- 20,268
Again, the argument is that "There's nothing inside the World of Void to destroy".
But do you even understand why the gap between Solar System level and Multi-Solar System level is trillions of times?
It sure as hell it isn't by destroying two solar systems.
It is trillions of time by destroying two solar systems and the light-years of nothingness in-betwee. To create an omnidirectional blast which encompasses such a distance wields trillions more than baseline Solar System level.
So even though you are primarily destroying nothing, you still wield trillions of times more energy.
The same principle applies to the World of Void, only to an infinite degree. Even if the World of Void is empty, it is still infinite in size. It is a universe, except devoid of galaxies and stars and etc, but also devoid of boundaries. It stretches infinitely.
To destroy or shake such a thing, you need infinite energy.
But do you even understand why the gap between Solar System level and Multi-Solar System level is trillions of times?
It sure as hell it isn't by destroying two solar systems.
It is trillions of time by destroying two solar systems and the light-years of nothingness in-betwee. To create an omnidirectional blast which encompasses such a distance wields trillions more than baseline Solar System level.
So even though you are primarily destroying nothing, you still wield trillions of times more energy.
The same principle applies to the World of Void, only to an infinite degree. Even if the World of Void is empty, it is still infinite in size. It is a universe, except devoid of galaxies and stars and etc, but also devoid of boundaries. It stretches infinitely.
To destroy or shake such a thing, you need infinite energy.
- 32,343
- 20,268
Because it was claimed by Grand Priest who is the most reliable source in Dragon Ball aside from Nigh-Omniscient / Cosmic Aware characters like Zuno or Shenron.The Everlasting said:
- 33,405
- 8,417
I agree with Matt.
- 19,122
- 6,334
Pretty sure that we treat nonexistence erasure as hax and not AP (not like I disagree with them having it if the void is a legit void)
But the thing is, you can't find energy from shaking a void of nothingness because the energy can't be determined due to 0 x infinite. They aren't destroying anything, and we never consider the fact that energy should disperse.
That said, if it's a space-like void, the feat is High 3-A because matter is present, the density is just hilariously low.
Also, the space between two solar systems isn't a void of nothingness at all
But the thing is, you can't find energy from shaking a void of nothingness because the energy can't be determined due to 0 x infinite. They aren't destroying anything, and we never consider the fact that energy should disperse.
That said, if it's a space-like void, the feat is High 3-A because matter is present, the density is just hilariously low.
Also, the space between two solar systems isn't a void of nothingness at all
- 32,343
- 20,268
@Kaltias
Again, it isn't 0 x Infinite. This comes from the pure and simple assumption that destroying a void requires 0 energy.
Except it clearly doesn't because throughout fiction characters both create and destroy void dimensions.
To suggest that it would need 0 energy to destroy the world of void is to imply that you and I could destroy it, if we had the range.
Again, it isn't 0 x Infinite. This comes from the pure and simple assumption that destroying a void requires 0 energy.
Except it clearly doesn't because throughout fiction characters both create and destroy void dimensions.
To suggest that it would need 0 energy to destroy the world of void is to imply that you and I could destroy it, if we had the range.
- 10,394
- 3,345
This isn't destruction, this is shaking.
There's literally nothing to shake in the World of Void besides the stadium.
There's literally nothing to shake in the World of Void besides the stadium.
- 32,343
- 20,268
@Ever
To quote Death Battle, what is Infinity / 2?
Infinity.
I'm sure you are aware that it takes energy to produce an Earthquake, and the larger the area of said quake, the more energy is required.
Across an infinite volume, you'd need infinite energy.
To quote Death Battle, what is Infinity / 2?
Infinity.
I'm sure you are aware that it takes energy to produce an Earthquake, and the larger the area of said quake, the more energy is required.
Across an infinite volume, you'd need infinite energy.
- 33,405
- 8,417
But they directly state that more than the stadium is shaking. They blatantly say the entire World of Void is shaking.The Everlasting said:
- 19,122
- 6,334
^ Basically, I agree with High 3-A if we don't consider the void as a legit void of nothingness.Kaltias said:
Also, not 0 energy, an undetermined amount. And there is difference between "void" as the one of space (which seems to be the case here) and an actual void like the one formed inside something like the LHC. If it's a complete void, it can't be measured because physics just says "no, this doesn't work".
Also i'm positive that I can't destroy nothingness.
TL;DR I'm inclined to agree with the High 3-A, I just want to make sure without jumping the gun
- 32,343
- 20,268
Also, it was also stated that Jiren is the strongest enemy Goku's ever faced, which would make him Low 2-C by scaling.
Depending on how the next episodes go, we may get even more high-end feats. Destroying the World of Void would likely be Low 2-C.
Depending on how the next episodes go, we may get even more high-end feats. Destroying the World of Void would likely be Low 2-C.
- 8,998
- 2,926
Sorry to bother as this is staff only, but I'd like to drop a little bit of support for the upgrade as well.
For one, I'd like to point out that in previous threads, it was generally accepted that the world of Void is not true nothingness despite the statement as opposed to just empty stuff like void of space or something since it does not behave like nothing in any manner whatsoever.
For two, what Celestial said still applies:
"whether the void has nothing in it or not, energy had to be spread throughout an infinite distance which requires infinite energy. This is pretty clear cut imo."
/\ This. Furthermore there's clearly some passage of time happening there, we see some source of light that I don't know exactly what should be and there's what appears to be a significant ammount of... Substance, I guess? In the sky as a whole which seems to move around a bit/malleable as opposed to some form of uniform absolute nothingness or something.
So saying it's absolutely nothing does seem contradictory at this point, from where I stand.
EDIT: Finally it also looks completely different from the Universes erased from existence by Zen'o.
Once again, sorry for bothering, this is all I will say. Thought these points could be important, is all.
For one, I'd like to point out that in previous threads, it was generally accepted that the world of Void is not true nothingness despite the statement as opposed to just empty stuff like void of space or something since it does not behave like nothing in any manner whatsoever.
For two, what Celestial said still applies:
"whether the void has nothing in it or not, energy had to be spread throughout an infinite distance which requires infinite energy. This is pretty clear cut imo."
/\ This. Furthermore there's clearly some passage of time happening there, we see some source of light that I don't know exactly what should be and there's what appears to be a significant ammount of... Substance, I guess? In the sky as a whole which seems to move around a bit/malleable as opposed to some form of uniform absolute nothingness or something.
So saying it's absolutely nothing does seem contradictory at this point, from where I stand.
EDIT: Finally it also looks completely different from the Universes erased from existence by Zen'o.
Once again, sorry for bothering, this is all I will say. Thought these points could be important, is all.
- 32,343
- 20,268
Can we just talk about how f*cking awesome the episode was? That was one of the best fights in the history of Dragon Ball.
I was like:
https://i.gyazo.com/615b4bd5b298db50aa7f3153dd51e366.png
When I saw it.
I was like:
https://i.gyazo.com/615b4bd5b298db50aa7f3153dd51e366.png
When I saw it.
- 7,032
- 2,046
It was said that it doesn't behave like a real void, but nobody really said why.
- 32,343
- 20,268
First because it has time. Secondly because it doesn't seem to be completely devoid of matter in it.
- 7,032
- 2,046
Except for the matter that GP created?
- 32,343
- 20,268
By the way, we need to deal with the fact that Limit Breaker Goku is likely stronger than Beerus just like Jiren is stronger than Belmod.
- 21,783
- 4,826
If its been determined the World of Void is not a true void, I'll support the upgrade.
inB4 goku vs Sun Wukong ovo
- 32,343
- 20,268
Wukong wins easily tho.
- 21,783
- 4,826
- 32,343
- 20,268
>Teased since Resurrection of F Saga
>Months of Hype
>New shiny transformation
>Finally reached Beerus' level and likely surpassed him
>Jiren still whoops his ass.
Amazing.
>Months of Hype
>New shiny transformation
>Finally reached Beerus' level and likely surpassed him
>Jiren still whoops his ass.
Amazing.
- 3,179
- 503
Best full body image of Ultra Instinct Goku I found
- 32,343
- 20,268
Looks badass.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
