Dragon Ball Super - Jiren and Co. Upgrade via Void Scaling

[Spinoirr]

Considering that we left Freeza at 3-A even though Toppo is already Low 2-C, I don’t think that’s a major issue.

Yeah toppo wasn't trying to kill, just knock him out

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Gods were only sparring to test out the durability of the stage.

Besides, under this logic, a comparison of areas of effect, Hermila would be more powerful than the three Gods of Destruction combined, considering a single blast of his could annihilate an entire chunk of the stage's edge, whereas the Gods' combined blast only left a hole in its surface, no?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Besides, as demonstrated with Beerus and Champa, when two Gods reach cataclysmic levels of recklessness, endangering entire universes, their clashes have an effect on the environment around them, with hazardous energy leaking out of their bodies, the entire surroundings violently shaking without their even moving, storms building; although, that last one is a moot point. Nothing like that even came close to happening during the sparring match on the Tournament of Power stage.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don’t think it’s about scaling to the destruction of certain parts of the stages but the WOV itself and they were fighting seriously anyway.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Besides, as demonstrated with Beerus and Champa, when two Gods reach cataclysmic levels of recklessness, endangering entire universes, their clashes have an effect on the environment around them, with hazardous energy leaking out of their bodies, the entire surroundings violently shaking without their even moving, storms building; although, that last one is a moot point. Nothing like that even came close to happening during the sparring match on the Tournament of Power stage.

probably cuz the fact none of that happened is the reason why WoV scales.

 

[luis3333]

I do not agree since several forages escalate just to damage the ring I think toppo fighters warped the dimension jiren and kefla that shook it can escalate since if I am not mistaken they are on the first ultra instinct that is equal to the gods

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well damn, the OP brings up a good point

 

[Sus]

Damn, thats unexpected

Im leaning towards disagreeing, as much as I'd like 2C goku, the logic is a stretch

 

[AwkguyDB]

A mad man I tell you but this makes me feel so stupid LOL I agree

 

[Eseseso]

Leaning towards agree.

Frieza should remain a 3-A but have Low 2-C durability IMO.

Dude was a ******* TANK.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Besides, as demonstrated with Beerus and Champa, when two Gods reach cataclysmic levels of recklessness, endangering entire universes, their clashes have an effect on the environment around them, with hazardous energy leaking out of their bodies, the entire surroundings violently shaking without their even moving, storms building; although, that last one is a moot point. Nothing like that even came close to happening during the sparring match on the Tournament of Power stage.

Considering they were fighting in a FAR tougher and more durable ring created by the second strongest being in the Universe and still ended up messing it up I think it's not bad plus the WoV is far different from any planet

 

[AwkguyDB]

17 2-C barrier???

 

[AwkguyDB]

So I am assuming Base Jiren and up would scale?

 

[thetechmaster36]

The Gods were only sparring to test out the durability of the stage.

The fight sequence definitely seemed more than a simple spar; we see unique attacks being sent out left and right, and definitely not just basic Ki Blasts, these are actual techniques that we see thrown out. One of the Supreme Kais was also worried that they were taking it a little too far.

Does the dialogue at first suggest otherwise? Yes, but when we see genuine concern in one of the Supreme Kais, and the fact that the Grand Priest had to shield himself from the combined attack of the three Gods, it probably means that it was an actual fight rather than a spar.

 

[AguilaR202]

Why is the WoV in the background more reliable for scaling than the arena which is literally the stage they’re fighting on?

I agree with nullflower here, if three GoDs can only manage so much damage against Kachi Katchin what exactly makes it so that Kale SSFP and freaking SS2 Goku later in the tourney aren’t 2-C as well?

She wrecked the entire stage which was stronger than the one those three GoDs fought on (as they patched up their weak spots as Grand Priest ordered)

 

[Sus]

Although i get the point of the wov being > gods, i think we should be cautious with who scales

If this goes through anyway

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Does the dialogue at first suggest otherwise? Yes,

Does it? I mean they also specifically say they’re gonna fight to impress Zeno and try to prove their superiority to the other universes (which in this case obviously includes the other GoDs) in front of everyone, it could be reasonable to say they initially intended to fight at such power.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Exactly!!

 

[KLOL506]

Freeza surviving what would be 2-C attack is the problem

He nearly got his shit kicked in by this. I would absolutely not consider this grounds for scaling.

Frieza surviving a beatdown from Broly for an hour straight and faring considerably better than that however, is indeed grounds for scaling.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Which would make sense why the Universe 1 (or 2 GoD) opted out from fighting since he knew they would go far beyond casual sparring and would end up wrecking stuff

 

[KLOL506]

Why is the WoV in the background more reliable for scaling than the arena which is literally the stage they’re fighting on?

I agree with nullflower here, if three GoDs can only manage so much damage against Kachi Katchin what exactly makes it so that Kale SSFP and freaking SS2 Goku later in the tourney aren’t 2-C as well?

She wrecked the entire stage which was stronger than the one those three GoDs fought on (as they patched up their weak spots as Grand Priest ordered)

Y'all really want Tier 2 Tien? Is that what you're asking for? Katchin is the worst justification to use for Tier 2.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The Gods were only sparring to test out the durability of the stage.

Besides, under this logic, a comparison of areas of effect, Hermila would be more powerful than the three Gods of Destruction combined, considering a single blast of his could annihilate an entire chunk of the stage's edge, whereas the Gods' combined blast only left a hole in its surface, no?

Besides, as demonstrated with Beerus and Champa, when two Gods reach cataclysmic levels of recklessness, endangering entire universes, their clashes have an effect on the environment around them, with hazardous energy leaking out of their bodies, the entire surroundings violently shaking without their even moving, storms building; although, that last one is a moot point. Nothing like that even came close to happening during the sparring match on the Tournament of Power stage.

I’ll respond to these in a few. Ran into a little inconvenience.

 

[DivineAura44]

I'm confused. By this logic wouldn't Goku's Ki + Jiren's Ki = Combined power of 3 gods? We'd just be back at square one.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Frieza surviving a beatdown from Broly for an hour straight and faring considerably better than that however, is indeed grounds for scaling.

Frieza in his Golden Form also knocked Broly back upon transforming which literally none of Goku and Vegeta's shit did, so I'd argue that Frieza was stronger than them in Blue at that point, especially since the Novel states that Broly actually had to avoid some of Frieza's attacks lest he get injured.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Does it? I mean they also specifically say they’re gonna fight to impress Zeno and try to prove their superiority to the other universes (which in this case obviously includes the other GoDs) in front of everyone, it could be reasonable to say they initially intended to fight at such power.

The Grand Priest inquires whether or not they want to test the durability of the arena after he pointed out a possible concern from one of the Gods and Supreme Kais that it would break, to which Iwne says that it's a "novel idea". Liquiir is the one suggesting that they impress Zen-Oh.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Zamasu, you're funny as hell... I agree.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I’ll respond to these in a few. Ran into a little inconvenience.

No need man, just sit on your throne and look pretty, we’ll handle this

 

[ZENZUYA]

As we know, it's taboo for Gods of Destruction to fight each other. Or else it'll result in the destruction of more than one universe when they fight. When Arak, Iwen and Liquir fight each other, despite it being taboo, their fight has no effect on the World of Void. However, Jiren, while suppressed, and UIO1 Goku, shook the World of Void. This should make the WoV 2-C and the characters who scale to it 2-C as well.

Simply put. Two Gods fighting = destruction of 2 universes. 3 Gods fighting didn’t destroy the WoV = 2-C WoV. You get the gist.
This scales to everyone UIO1 level and higher.

I'm not sure

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

The Grand Priest inquires whether or not they want to test the durability of the arena after he pointed out a possible concern from one of the Gods and Supreme Kais that it would break, to which Iwne says that it's a "novel idea". Liquiir is the one suggesting that they impress Zen-Oh.

Yeah, but what does that on its own actually indicate about how seriously they intended to fight?

Although if anything, the testing durability point has more reason to be extrapolated to them fighting seriously rather than holding back or something, as they’re literally trying to cause damage.

But on its own it doesn’t really indicate anything conclusive or clear cut towards that, but Liquir fighting to explicitly try and prove superiority to the other GoDs sure does.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Yeah, but what does that on its own actually indicate about how seriously they intended to fight?

Oh, no, I agree with you that Iwne just saying that it's a good idea doesn't mean much on its own, I was just kinda clarifying by what I meant in regards to the dialogue suggesting the opposite.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, given that Jiren even in his most casual state is well above the likes of Belmod and that the clash between Goku and Jiren is above the likes of those three GoD, I personally don't mind this. Also, Toppo being a GoD candidate simply means his Hakai isn't as advanced or it be what the Manga Continuity would call he's only scraped the basics of learning Ultra Ego; which doesn't really mean his raw power is that low. But Toppo is still considered fodder compared to Jiren; just throwing that out there. But Toppo is also definitely far above ToP Golden Frieza and would stomp him seriously. Vegeta had to really go all out just to bring him down.

But for the love of pong, keep the "underdogs" out of the discussion.

 

[Sus]

Weren't they stated to surpass gods at full power? Isn't arguing that suppressed jiren and omen goku were already above several gods, kinda inconsistent?

 

[DivineAura44]

Okay, given that Jiren even in his most casual state is well above the likes of Belmod and that the clash between Goku and Jiren is above the likes of those three GoD, I personally don't mind this. Also, Toppo being a GoD candidate simply means his Hakai isn't as advanced or it be what the Manga Continuity would call he's only scraped the basics of learning Ultra Ego; which doesn't really mean his raw power is that low. But Toppo is still considered fodder compared to Jiren; just throwing that out there. But Toppo is also definitely far above ToP Golden Frieza and would stomp him seriously. Vegeta had to really go all out just to bring him down.

But for the love of pong, keep the "underdogs" out of the discussion.

I'm still confused. The void was shaking as a result of Jiren AND Goku's ki was it not? If so it'd mean Goku + Jiren > 3 Gods. Which as we know would still net them Low 2-C.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I'm still confused. The void was shaking as a result of Jiren AND Goku's ki was it not? If so it'd mean Goku + Jiren > 3 Gods. Which as we know would still net them Low 2-C.

No??

When UIO1 was first being built up to (the scene where the World of Void is shaking before the form is revealed), there is nothing at all suggesting that Jiren's Ki was shaking the World of Void, and in fact, the dialogue is outright saying that it's Goku's Ki that's causing the shaking.

Where are you getting the impression that it's both Goku's Ki and Jiren's Ki??

 

[Reiner04]

I agree with the op

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The Gods were only sparring to test out the durability of the stage.

"Let us reaffirm our superiority over all of the participating universes" Makes no sense why they'd hold back if this was said. Geene doesn’t even join because it's heavily implied he'd beat the three of them, which wouldn’t be relevant if they were just sparring. (See note at the bottom). They even ask if Zeno is satisfied. Why would they risk dissatisfying Zeno by holding back?

Besides, under this logic, a comparison of areas of effect, Hermila would be more powerful than the three Gods of Destruction combined, considering a single blast of his could annihilate an entire chunk of the stage's edge, whereas the Gods' combined blast only left a hole in its surface, no?

Here they're not even touching the arena and it shatters. Every attack that hits the stage destroys it. So, moot point.

Besides, as demonstrated with Beerus and Champa, when two Gods reach cataclysmic levels of recklessness, endangering entire universes, their clashes have an effect on the environment around them, with hazardous energy leaking out of their bodies, the entire surroundings violently shaking without their even moving, storms building; although, that last one is a moot point. Nothing like that even came close to happening during the sparring match on the Tournament of Power stage.

Beerus and Champa create storms here, and only destroy a floor here. Here the 3 GoDs change the background and create various lightning effects. This is obvious nitpicking as there's no specific form of destruction.

Weren't they stated to surpass gods at full power? Isn't arguing that suppressed jiren and omen goku were already above several gods, kinda inconsistent?

I can tell you didn’t probably read the OP.

 

[DivineAura44]

No??

When UIO1 was first being built up to (the scene where the World of Void is shaking before the form is revealed), there is nothing at all suggesting that Jiren's Ki was shaking the World of Void, and in fact, the dialogue is outright saying that it's Goku's Ki that's causing the shaking.

Where are you getting the impression that it's both Goku's Ki and Jiren's Ki??

For it not to be both, wouldn't that mean Jiren's ki is non-existent at that moment?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He isn’t flexing his Ki tho…

 

[thetechmaster36]

For it not to be both, wouldn't that mean Jiren's ki is not existent at that moment?

Jiren's Ki wasn't "non-existent", he just wasn't exerting it because Goku was literally nowhere to be seen, thus he was under the impression that the fight was over, especially since the Grand Priest was essentially announcing Goku's elimination.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Jiren’s Ki wasn’t remotely flared up or causing any shaking and the WoV was never shaking in that scene until UIO started powering up, and when Jiren did it, Goku was literally powered down in Base.