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Dragon Ball Super - Jiren and Co. Upgrade via Void Scaling

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thetechmaster36 said:
Jiren's Ki wasn't "non-existent", he just wasn't exerting it because Goku was literally nowhere to be seen, thus he was under the impression that the fight was over, especially since the Grand Priest was essentially announcing Goku's elimination.
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Yes but for that he'd have to literally have no ki. Even if he had the tiniest bi of ki out it'd be Jiren + Goku's ki.
 
KLOL506 said:
Y'all really want Tier 2 Tien? Is that what you're asking for? Katchin is the worst justification to use for Tier 2.
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I don’t think I properly laid out my point

Basically the arena not being reduced to floating debri is proof they weren’t going all out as weaker characters managed more destruction of a stronger arena later in the ToP.

Them not going full throttle is the more likely explanation for the WoV not being affected significantly rather than the WoV being ‘ durable’ enough to ignore their combined max power.

but I concede, it is posible for the arena to have grown weaker by the time any significant destruction of it was shown, considering there were metric fucktons of ki blasts flying around everywhere for a good 20 minutes or so.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Why would they risk dissatisfying Zeno by holding back?
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This is actually an extremely good point, because if you go back to Goku vs Toppo (a battle before even the preliminaries began), the two were more than ready to go 100% (which Goku explicitly saying such, going into Kaioken, and Toppo raising his aura).

The Zeno-oh’s were visibly upset by the fight being stopped, which means they take no issue in watching full all out brawls by characters that were weaker than GoD’s.
 
Sus said:
They shouldn't be that far from eachother,
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Based on what? Geene implies he can stomp 3 Gods at once. There's no proof that the Gods are relative to each other.
Sus said:
and i don't see how this changes anything as all gods scale off of the 2 gods = 2 universes thing
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Yeah so what? It just means that some (Beerus and Champa) would be 2-C but others would be low 2-C.
 
AguilaR202 said:
I don’t think I properly laid out my point

Basically the arena not being reduced to floating debri is proof they weren’t going all out as weaker characters managed more destruction of a stronger arena later in the ToP.

Them not going full throttle is the more likely explanation for the WoV not being affected significantly rather than the WoV being ‘ durable’ enough to ignore their combined max power.

but I concede, it is posible for the arena to have grown weaker by the time any significant destruction of it was shown, considering there were metric fucktons of ki blasts flying around everywhere for a good 20 minutes or so.
Click to expand...
Can’t this be easily reconciled by the simple fact that the entire arena doesn’t illogically have the same durability throughout over using the same base material (I mean I don’t think this is even a thing for real world structures).
IMG_3640.png

Grand Priest making remarks about certain specific areas needing improvement in clear reference to durability makes absolutely no sense if the entire arena has the same durability everywhere.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
That literally makes zero sense. Literally go back and look at the scene where Jiren is spoken to by Belmod. As Jiren walks forward, the tournament stage starts to tremor as we see rocks shaking, and then we get a statement that the whole World of Void is shaking. That's Jiren exerting his Ki.
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I'm failing to see how this addresses my point. I'm saying that Jiren wasn't asserting most of his power. This is the entire reason when Jiren exerts his ki the entire void shakes. Because when he actually does bring out his full ki it's too much for the Void.
 
DivineAura44 said:
I'm failing to see how this addresses my point. I'm saying that Jiren wasn't asserting most of his power. This is the entire reason when Jiren exerts his ki the entire void shakes. Because when he actually does bring out his full ki it's too much for the Void.
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So you are. . .agreeing with the premise?

If your point was that Jiren's Ki is the reason that the Void shakes, then what was the assumption of it shaking being a combination of Goku's Ki and Jiren's Ki about?
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Based on what? Geene implies he can stomp 3 Gods at once. There's no proof that the Gods are relative to each other.

Yeah so what? It just means that some (Beerus and Champa) would be 2-C but others would be low 2-C.
Click to expand...
So
Jiren and goku (full power) > beerus and belmod > jiren and goku (suppressed and omen) > 3 gods?

If so, that does clear my misunderstanding
 
thetechmaster36 said:
So you are. . .agreeing with the premise?

If your point was that Jiren's Ki is the reason that the Void shakes, then what was the assumption of it shaking being a combination of Goku's Ki and Jiren's Ki about?
Click to expand...
I'm saying that Jiren was still releasing power, just not as much as when he shook the void.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
That literally makes zero sense. Literally go back and look at the scene where Jiren is spoken to by Belmod. As Jiren walks forward, the tournament stage starts to tremor as we see rocks shaking, and then we get a statement that the whole World of Void is shaking. That's Jiren exerting his Ki.
Click to expand...
As much as I don’t really like the logic behind upgrades proposed, that would just mean they become 2-C later in the ToP as post Ui 2 Goku SSB who is stronger than his initial UI gets a linear 20x boost to his power through Kaioken and Toppos Hakai outright warps the entire WoV on its own.
 
DivineAura44 said:
I'm saying that Jiren was still releasing power, just not as much as when he shook the void.
Click to expand...
That still doesn't really change the fact that UIO1 Goku's Ki was shaking the World of Void when he appeared, and the dialogue is saying just as much without any mention of Jiren's Ki.
 
AguilaR202 said:
I don’t think I properly laid out my point

Basically the arena not being reduced to floating debri is proof they weren’t going all out as weaker characters managed more destruction of a stronger arena later in the ToP.

Them not going full throttle is the more likely explanation for the WoV not being affected significantly rather than the WoV being ‘ durable’ enough to ignore their combined max power.

but I concede, it is posible for the arena to have grown weaker by the time any significant destruction of it was shown, considering there were metric fucktons of ki blasts flying around everywhere for a good 20 minutes or so.
Click to expand...
One small issue with this statement.

The two Zen'os are literally out on the throne in front of them. If they got dissatisfied with the display of their power, poof the GoDs went.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
That still doesn't really change the fact that UIO1 Goku's Ki was shaking the World of Void when he appeared, and the dialogue is saying just as much without any mention of Jiren's Ki.
Click to expand...
Because it wasn't the main factor. If you get a paper cut at 2:00 and someone breaks in your house at 2:08 and shoots you no one is gonna say "Well folks, TechMaster died as a result of a gunshot and a paper cut." That sounds a little stupid.
 
ObberGobb said:
I agree. And tbh, the GoDs should be 2-C already based on the logic of the tiering system. Just as Low 2-C times two isn't 2-C, 2-C divided by two shouldn't be Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
It's not 2-C/2. It's 2-C/ Unquantifiable amount. The tier is more a placeholder because it's in between Low 2-C and 2-C. The tier isn't actually saying they have Low 2-C levels of power.
 
Just a reminder that in tier 2 and 1 you can be below baseline but still in the same tier

But this isn't the crt for it
 
So what are the overall changes to scaling?

GoD = At least Low 2-C ( placeholder for being able to contribute half the power of a 2-C feat )

2 GoDs = 2-C

WoV shaking treshold > 3 GoDs = > 2-C

UI 1 Goku / Supressed Jiren > At least Low 2-C ( the two of them together shook the WoV )

UI 2 Goku / SS2 Kefla >> At least Low 2-C

SSB Goku ( Post UI2) / SSB Vegeta >> At least Low 2-C

SSB Kaiolel Goku / SSBE Vegeta / Toppo = 2-C thanks to linear 20x boosts and Toppos Hakai

UI 3/ MUI /Jiren / full power Jiren / limits broken Jiren = 2-C

What about Broly and Gogeta?
 
AguilaR202 said:
So what are the overall changes to scaling?

GoD = At least Low 2-C ( placeholder for being able to contribute half the power of a 2-C feat )

2 GoDs = 2-C

WoV shaking treshold > 3 GoDs = > 2-C

UI 1 Goku / Supressed Jiren > At least Low 2-C ( the two of them together shook the WoV )

UI 2 Goku / SS2 Kefla >> At least Low 2-C

SSB Goku ( Post UI2) / SSB Vegeta >> At least Low 2-C

SSB Kaiolel Goku / SSBE Vegeta / Toppo = 2-C thanks to linear 20x boosts and Toppos Hakai

UI 3/ MUI /Jiren / full power Jiren / limits broken Jiren = 2-C

What about Broly and Gogeta?
Click to expand...
Kefla and ui2 goku are 2C, so are SSB post ui2 goku and vegeta

Gogeta and broly would also scale due to being superior to SSB goku and vegeta even in their weakest forms
 
AguilaR202 said:
UI 1 Goku / Supressed Jiren > At least Low 2-C ( the two of them together shook the WoV )
Click to expand...
Literally no; they should be scaling to 2-C, flat out. Show legitimate proof that both of them actively contributed to shaking the World of Void in both instances.

Need I refer to the UIO1 scene again?
 
Even if this complete misinterpretation of the scenes were actually the case, the simple fact that they weren’t even clashing or combining their power in any way invalidates any notion of trying to divide the feat and it would still be scaleable to both individually, as it would still be from two completely independent power sources regardless, and not a combination/clash.
 
I am incredibly neutral towards this since this also does depend if the world of Void is considered a Low 2C construct or 2C construct.

Also if shaking the world of void should really count as a 2C feat by default.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
I am incredibly neutral towards this since this also does depend if the world of Void is considered a Low 2C construct or 2C construct.

Also if shaking the world of void should really count as a 2C feat by default.
Click to expand...
The wov is 2C for whitstanding the clash of 3 gods
 
Sus said:
The wov is 2C for whitstanding the clash of 3 gods
Click to expand...
Proof it should been 2C? I looking at this from a cosmological standpoint as there are the statements relating to the World of Void if memories served me right since there is nothing much to go by aside from those statements.

Anyway, I am still indifferent towards this thread overall, but should brought up the fact we still technically have statements of the World of Void as well as it not exactly containing multiple timelines as well as other shenanigans.

In either case, there is technically the feat between Beerus and his brother as well to taken into consideration
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Proof it should been 2C? I looking at this from a cosmological standpoint as there are the statements relating to the World of Void if memories served me right since there is nothing much to go by aside from those statements.

Anyway, I am still indifferent towards this thread overall, but should brought up the fact we still technically have statements of the World of Void as well as it not exactly containing multiple timelines as well as other shenanigans.

In either case, there is technically the feat between Beerus and his brother as well to taken into consideration
Click to expand...
The proof is in the crt?

2 gods clashing = the simultaneous destruction of 2 universes

The wov could withstand the clash of even 3 gods

Its pretty simple?
 
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