Well, now that exams are over I think I have a minute to re-type this response.Probably won't be quite as long this time though. I must say you are definitely making a more coherent argument and being more respectful than the other guy did.
AKM sama said:
The whole fight was about Beerus testing Goku's limits constantly and Goku breaking through time and again. Even when they were fighting on Earth and Beerus beat SSG to a pulp, Goku came back stronger and continued the fight. When they went into the stratosphere and Goku was about to lose the beam struggle, he came back even stronger to match Beerus's power. When Beerus nullified Goku's energy and turned him back to base, Goku shouldn't have anything left. But he broke through his limits again and came back with an even greater power. And lastly when his power drained again and Beerus added insult to injury, Goku broke through his limits again in his base form.
Yes, Goku had grown throughout the fight. There was no ambiguity either, given that it was stated by Vegeta, the narrator and the episode title that Goku had surpassed SSG while he was in his SSJ form. The most obvious case is when Goku adapts to SSG, and Beerus compliments Goku on being such a fighting genius and simply learning from the experience and retaining the power, this is all done as a natural progression of the fight, and it's pretty clear. However, the final sequence is different.
You can't call it a rage boost when there is no rage involved. Like there's not a single moment in their fight where Goku is literally enraged. Because there wasn't anything to rage about. Gohan was enraged against Raditz and Cell, clearly. Goku was against Freeza, Vegeta against Beerus. None of your examples are related to Goku's situation. Beerus asking him about his limits and Goku replying "Not yet, shut up" and then later respectfully telling him that just because he's a god he can't decide people's limits, isn't a rage moment at all, nor a reason for Goku to rage out. Goku finding out that his family was killed by Zamasu, that was a rage moment and a proper reason to rage out. You can't call a random moment of power up a rage moment just because he was struggling and/or screaming.
Huh? The portrayal of this scene is identical to the way that previous rage sequences are presented. Comparing it to previous rage boosts:
Gohan: Screams "STOP HURTING MY DAD!" and then bursts through the ship and headbutts Raditz, enraged that Raditz was beating the shit out of his dad.
Vegeta: Screams "THAT'S MY BULMA!" and then powers-up showing an unrivaled onslaught against Beerus, enraged that Beerus had slapped his wife.
Goku: Screams "SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" and punches Beerus's SoD, destroying it, enraged that Beerus had "decided" his limits.
Which one of these is not like the other? None. This scene is completely indistinguishable from previous rage boosts in their presentation.
Goku is doing absolutely nothing, struggling against the SoD, and then Beerus makes a comment about Goku being at his limit, and he immediately holds back the SoD, starts screaming for Beerus to shut up, and then punches the SoD out of existence. Then he lectures Beerus about deciding other people's limits. He was able to destroy the SoD as a direct response to Beerus's comment that pissed him off. I don't know how it could really be seen as anything other than a rage boost. And rage boosts have literally always been temporary; they go into a tirade above their previous limitations, and then go back to normal.
And with all the given context and build up of the fight, it is pretty reasonable for it's culmination to be a proper limit-breaking moment for Goku. Also Goten and Gohan are clearly able to see the fight. Saiyans can see over very long distances, that's been estalished since the beginning of DB. And Vegeta was able to see just fine. Just look at their hand gestures and facial expressions, Goten is covering his eyes to block the sun and they are both looking upwards, none of these you do if you just have to "feel" a fight. They concentrate and generally close their eyes to feel a fight as shown in the Buu saga, they don't need to look above and block the sunlight. But they are not able to see Goku and Freeza.
I mean, from what I recall Vegeta was the only one that was actually able to see the fight. But that's not really the point. The characters being able to see characters means nothing given how incredibly inconsistent it is. The peanut gallery was watching SSJ2 Trunks vs SSJ2 Goku and nobody, including BULMA expressed any issue watching them. During the Cell Games, people are having trouble seeing Goku vs Cell iirc, and then any difficulty is never expressed again. During the ToP the ONLY time that somebody ever expressed an issues watching the fighters was when Zeno was having trouble seeing Super Speed Dyspo. By your logic:
RoF Base Goku/Final Freeza>>SSJ2 Trunks, SSJ2 Goku, the entire ToP's fighters, all of the U6 fights, etc etc.
Later, they make it a point that Goku had "evolved and surpassed" the level of gods in that fight. If his ssj1 was only as strong as the SSG like you're claiming to be, he would be at the same level as gods during that fight, he wouldn't have "surpassed" it. The fact that they say he
surpassed the level of gods by "
evolving" during that fight is clearly referring to the limit breaking of Goku. Rage boost =/= evolving.
I think you may be misinterpreting my argument, because this isn't really an accurate characterization.
I never claimed that Goku did not grow during the fight. That is plainly evident, even stated several times. And when I claimed that when Goku dropped out of SSG, his SSJ was equal to it, that's not even really a claim it's just a fact. Goku and Beerus both explicitly agreed that was the case, in addition to that clearly being shown following it. However, his SSJ became stronger throughout the fight, and the narrator and episode title state that he had surpassed SSG. As the fight progressed his SSJ got stronger, I never disputed that, you seem to be suggesting that I did dispute that. To reiterate during BoG:
Base Goku(limits broken/rage boosted)>final SSJ(post-ritual)>initial SSJ(post ritual)=SSG>final Base Goku(post-ritual)>>>>>>>SSJ3 Goku(pre-ritual)
